Low Effort GDT GAME 19 | Place your bets edition | Tue Nov 21 2024, 7PM | TSN5, RDS

[jbeck5]

I’m not struggling with anything. I’m quoting your post. I can see why the ignore function is useful. Cheers.

Pftt you use that thing?!

And ya yar.

It's not all players, its compared to other D. and shooting hard isn't exactly something exclusive to high end D, there are lots of defensive D that have bombs. If you want to compare him to other offensive D, be my guest, I'll even get you started, but he doesn't really stand out.

View attachment 934135

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He had 45% of his shot attempts make it through to the net last year, which is top quarter of the league.

For comparison,

Makar: 43%
Chychrun 42%
Hedman 41%
Hronek 39%
Karlsson 38%
Sergachev 37%
Hughes 36%
Burns 34%

Yeah, straight muffins. He is not threatening at all with his shot.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, straight muffins. He is not threatening at all with his shot.

Ok, I guess we live in a world where facts don't matter. Cool.

 

[jbeck5]

Ok, I guess we live in a world where facts don't matter. Cool.

Look, you can live in a world where Chabots shot is feared from the opposition in your head. That just ain't this world.

Redden had a good shot. Chara had a good shot. Gonchar had a good shot. Karlsson had a good shot. Chabot does not. He is not like the other offensive D we had in our history.

For example, tkachuk was criticized that he could only score from 5 ft out...but he improved his shot quite a bit over the years to the point he's a threat to beat a goalie clean from 30 ft out.

Chabot doesn't have that ability for example. If Chabot has the puck at the point with some room to skate in and rifle it on net, I'm never expecting a goal. He doesn't really beat goalies clean unless he's right up in the slot or heavy screening...but that's not what I call clean.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Look, you can live in a world where Chabots shot is feared from the opposition in your head. That just ain't this world.

Redden had a good shot. Chara had a good shot. Gonchar had a good shot. Karlsson had a good shot. Chabot does not. He is not like the other offensive D we had in our history.

For example, tkachuk was criticized that he could only score from 5 ft out...but he improved his shot quite a bit over the years to the point he's a threat to beat a goalie clean from 30 ft out.

Chabot doesn't have that ability for example. If Chabot has the puck at the point with some room to skate in and rifle it on net, I'm never expecting a goal. He doesn't really beat goalies clean unless he's right up in the slot or heavy screening...but that's not what I call clean.

Hamonic has the best shot on the team out of the dmen. I'm not even joking. He just doesn't have the other offensive skills that Chabot and Sanderson do.

I think having a true scoring threat from the blueline would make this team far better.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Hamonic has the best shot on the team out of the dmen. I'm not even joking. He just doesn't have the other offensive skills that Chabot and Sanderson do.

I think having a true scoring threat from the blueline would make this team far better.

Ya Hammer has the best and hardest shot.
NHL edge has him at 93rd percentile for D on shot speed.

 

[bicboi64]

Hamonic has the best shot on the team out of the dmen. I'm not even joking. He just doesn't have the other offensive skills that Chabot and Sanderson do.

I think having a true scoring threat from the blueline would make this team far better.

From an eye test, he seemed to get the puck on net quite a bit last season. When he's back in the line up, I hope he can get the puck on net a bit more instead of missing wide every single time.

 

[Micklebot]

Look, you can live in a world where Chabots shot is feared from the opposition in your head. That just ain't this world.

Redden had a good shot. Chara had a good shot. Gonchar had a good shot. Karlsson had a good shot. Chabot does not. He is not like the other offensive D we had in our history.

For example, tkachuk was criticized that he could only score from 5 ft out...but he improved his shot quite a bit over the years to the point he's a threat to beat a goalie clean from 30 ft out.

Chabot doesn't have that ability for example. If Chabot has the puck at the point with some room to skate in and rifle it on net, I'm never expecting a goal. He doesn't really beat goalies clean unless he's right up in the slot or heavy screening...but that's not what I call clean.

So, since becoming a regular, he is tied for the 19th best goals per game among D. Facts don't care about your feelings, reality is he scored goals at a higher rate than nearly 400 other Dmen that played 40 or more games during that stretch. Last year specifically, he was tied for 11th in goals per game.

So when you say his shot is too easily blocked and is a muffin, I can point to the data that show his shots do get through, and that he does shoot harder than a lot of other top offensive D, and I can be comfortable knowing that the world I live in is backed up by evidence.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

So, since becoming a regular, he is tied for the 19th best goals per game among D. Facts don't care about your feelings, reality is he scored goals at a higher rate than nearly 400 other Dmen that played 40 or more games during that stretch. Last year specifically, he was tied for 11th in goals per game.

So when you say his shot is too easily blocked and is a muffin, I can point to the data that show his shots do get through, and that he does shoot harder than a lot of other top offensive D, and I can be comfortable knowing that the world I live in is backed up by evidence.

19th is good, but it's not exactly a player that would be feared. I'd imagine that means there are 18 other teams out there with a better shooting threat from the point than Chabot, and if Ottawa wants to be a playoff team, then 19th might not be good enough.

Which again, it's a good thing we have Yakemchuk, because I believe he could be an elite scoring threat in the league.

 

[Micklebot]

19th is good, but it's not exactly a player that would be feared. I'd imagine that means there are 18 other teams out there with a better shooting threat from the point than Chabot, and if Ottawa wants to be a playoff team, then 19th might not be good enough.

Which again, it's a good thing we have Yakemchuk, because I believe he could be an elite scoring threat in the league.

Sure, he doesn't have a wicked shot, nobody claimed he did, that was just the strawman thrown up to distract from the original claim that he had a muffin that was too easily blocked and never got through, and that there was no weapon from the point. I mentioned he is above average in his average velocity (84th percentile), his hardest shot was in the top 86th percentile, his % of shots blocked was in the top quarter and his shot through rate was better than a number of top D, then showed his goals per game are up there as well, so whatever he is doing seems to be working alright even if he isn't Shea Weber out there.

As for 18 other teams, well that list included Weber, so probably 17, and that was career, last year he was 11th, which seems perfectly fine. The reality is that the difference between 19th and 6th was 3 or 4 goals per 82 games, so not really the difference between good enough to be contending for the playoffs or not.

 

[LiseL]

It's insane how fragile this team's confidence is.

Most of the core are mental midgets. If they don't score the first goal, it all goes to hell. They can't pass, revert back to their old habits, make dumb decisions, etc. Even when they play well at the beginning of the game, they rarely score on their chances as they either take low percentage shots, overpass, miss the net or turn the puck over. The few players that don't fall apart try to do too much which never works out.

Sanderson is 100% injured right now though.

Doesn't explain some of the low IQ decisions he's been making.

 

[Dionysus]

One thing I noticed when the team was down, even when making a good push in the 3rd.

They are constantly trying to make the play that will change the game. Instead of linking good plays together, they want to make the one home run play.

On the late powerplay, Tkachuk was standing still on the half wall, looking for options. After a couple moves he ripped it through the seam cross ice, but it was too hard a pass to coral, and the play died.

Instead of moving the puck quickly, stringing together passes and breaking down the defense, they tried to break down a set defense with one play. I think it optimized some of the issues that plague this group, especially when they are pressing to make a comeback, or are feeling pressure in general.

The trust in the team game is not there. They revert to a group of individuals trying to do it themselves.

I think this is something that has developed over the years of losing hockey, where the top guys had no depth to support them, and were sent out to try and win games on their own.

Good teams have enormous trust in their group. They know everyone is going to do their job. The Sens don't have that yet. If they can't develop it, they will never get anywhere as a team.

 

[LiseL]

Brady with 5 shots on goal.....leading the charge as he does every game.

Who cares when none of them go in and he's on the ice for too many goals against? It's also annoying that he's usually the last player to enter our D zone and the first to leave.

 

[LiseL]

Kleven is not an NHL player.

My God, coaches need to tell Kleven to stop pinching, he's a rookie, still has lots to learn on how to play D properly. He should stay behind their blue line, only advance to keep the puck in play by shooting it in the corner or passing to a linemate.

Sandy's been doing the same lately. Is that their style of play, D constantly pinching? If it is, then that's on the coaches. This D rarely score, it's not like we have EK or Makar back there. I know Chabot gets a lot of grief for his muffin shot, but I think he does it to get a tip, deflection or rebound. The other D almost always shoot so hard that it comes out on an opposing player's stick or is out of play.

 

[LiseL]

I sometimes wonder if moving him up would be a good move. I’m as confident or more confident with him being able to convert with his shot as I am with anyone else on this lineup. They may not feel his defensive game is good enough maybe.

And Brady's is? Right now, the only players who seem able to score 5v5 are Stu, Gaudette and Batherson when they're playing from behind.

 

[Dionysus]

My God, coaches need to tell Kleven to stop pinching, he's a rookie, still has lots to learn on how to play D properly. He should stay behind their blue line, only advance to keep the puck in play by shooting it in the corner or passing to a linemate.

Sandy's been doing the same lately. Is that their style of play, D constantly pinching? If it is, then that's on the coaches. This D rarely score, it's not like we have EK or Makar back there. I know Chabot gets a lot of grief for his muffin shot, but I think he does it to get a tip, deflection or rebound. The other D almost always shoot so hard that it comes out on an opposing player's stick or is out of play.

Two Kleven pinches have cost the team points this year that I distinctly remember.

Liked his physicality vs. Vegas. Ridiculous that he got the extra in the boarding plus roughing exchange.

 

[LiseL]

I don't care about this anymore. I care about the following:

Which goalie was better? The answer is Samsonov.

Ullmark needs to outplay the other goalie. He is supposed to be a top 5 goalie. He's outplayed not a single one he's went up against I think except one.

I don't seem to recall Sens getting as many Grade A chances as they gave up, and when they did get one, they couldn't finish. Shot count means nothing if they're mostly low percentage shots or players can't finish. Their play make those goalies look good.

 

[Big Muddy]

And Brady's is? Right now, the only players who seem able to score 5v5 are Stu, Gaudette and Batherson when they're playing from behind.

Yes, I hear you on the Brady front. I was just trying to figure out why our coach wouldn’t move Gaudette up and at least give him a shot.

 

[LiseL]

Brady was shit tonight too. But it was Gaudette who lost his man and got stapled to the bench for most of the game afterwards. Gaudette has a good shot and is a goal scorer, but if he f***ed up enough fo cost us the game it doesn't matter if he scored a goal on a PP where he received a nice pass. He basically made up for his f*** up. Brady was terrible tonight too, no doubt, but Gaudette played maybe 5-mins and cost us the f***ing game. We can't have players playing five minutes and shitting the bed defensively. Brady plays more minutes because he's better than Gaudette. If he was better, Gaudette would have been in the NHL a lot sooner and not be a tweener. Gaudette still has bad habits and he's 28. He's 28 and a tweener.

Brady was -3 last night, on the ice for all 3 goals and scored none. At least Gaudette scored one with his limited minutes. Regardless of how badly Brady plays, his ice-time doesn't change. So much for accountability.

 

[LiseL]

Paces per 82 games (2023-24 vs 2024-25)

Stutzle vs Stutzle : 77 pts vs 99 pts
Tkachuk vs Tkachuk : 75 pts vs 86 pts
Batherson vs Batherson : 66 pts vs 78 pts
Giroux vs Giroux : 64 pts vs 56 pts
Norris vs Norris : 49 pts vs 56 pts
Pinto vs Pinto : 54 pts vs 22 pts (11 GP)
Greig vs Greig : 30 pts vs 26 pts

Tarasenko vs Perron : 59 pts vs 0 pts (8 GP)
Joseph vs Amadio : 40 pts vs 17 pts
Kastelic vs Gaudette : 13 pts vs 41 pts
Kubalik vs Cousins : 17 pts vs 17 pts
Kelly vs Gregor : 18 pts vs 15 pts

So in terms of production, our best forwards have improved their paces so far. Giroux is pacing for a bit less but Norris compensates for that.

The problem is definitely Pinto and the new faces. Only Gaudette surprising goal scoring offsets that a little. Perron and Amadio are supposed to contribute (was not a big fan of these signings)

What is SCARY is that EVERYONE except 6 players (Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Gaudette and Giroux) is pacing for less than 10 goals so far... That is really alarming.

Don't forget those 2 games where they scored 8 goals (SLB, LAK), that may skewer those statistics somewhat.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Strong disagree on Jensen vs Chychrun. Jensen is a faster, more fluid skater.

And yeah, Perron is slow. So was Tarasenko. Cousins is slow. So was Kastelic.

Those are marginal players. I don’t think having Joseph over Amadio makes this a good team.

The problem is that too many guys playing 18 minutes a night are slow and lack finish.

Here's the skating speed stats from NHL Edge for last season:

Chychrun had more top seed bursts than Jensen over the course of the season.

Here's the shot metrics:

Chychrun wins this category handily. And, not for nothing, but this team has 3G from its blueline this year. A guy who can rip the puck and score goals would be immensely helpful right now.

Finally, here's the zone time metrics:

Chychrun's offensive and defensive zone times are massively better than Jensen's were last year.

Jensen has been a fine fit but he hasn't moved the needle in the same way a Chychrun can.

 

[LiseL]

If every 8MM$ player had 1/2 the heart and tenacity of #18 we would be PO bound

And I would add, willingness to learn to play a 200-ft game to that list.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Here's the skating speed stats from NHL Edge for last season:
View attachment 934265
Chychrun had more top seed bursts than Jensen over the course of the season.

Here's the shot metrics:
View attachment 934266
Chychrun wins this category handily. And, not for nothing, but this team has 3G from its blueline this year. A guy who can rip the puck and score goals would be immensely helpful right now.

Finally, here's the zone time metrics:
View attachment 934267
Chychrun's offensive and defensive zone times are massively better than Jensen's were last year.

Jensen has been a fine fit but he hasn't moved the needle in the same way a Chychrun can.

To be fair everyone knew Jensen had a down year last year. Before that and this season he’s been great. I don’t think Chychrun was signing here so we got an extra year of a top 4 D on a good contract.

 

[HSF]

Here's the skating speed stats from NHL Edge for last season:
View attachment 934265
Chychrun had more top seed bursts than Jensen over the course of the season.

Here's the shot metrics:
View attachment 934266
Chychrun wins this category handily. And, not for nothing, but this team has 3G from its blueline this year. A guy who can rip the puck and score goals would be immensely helpful right now.

Finally, here's the zone time metrics:
View attachment 934267
Chychrun's offensive and defensive zone times are massively better than Jensen's were last year.

Jensen has been a fine fit but he hasn't moved the needle in the same way a Chychrun can.

anyone thinking Jensen is better is delusional

 

[Xspyrit]

It's not all players, its compared to other D. and shooting hard isn't exactly something exclusive to high end D, there are lots of defensive D that have bombs. If you want to compare him to other offensive D, be my guest, I'll even get you started, but he doesn't really stand out.

View attachment 934135

View attachment 934139
View attachment 934138

View attachment 934140


He had 45% of his shot attempts make it through to the net last year, which is top quarter of the league.

For comparison,

Makar: 43%
Chychrun 42%
Hedman 41%
Hronek 39%
Karlsson 38%
Sergachev 37%
Hughes 36%
Burns 34%

I love facts, only thing that keeps this world real.

Look, you can live in a world where Chabots shot is feared from the opposition in your head. That just ain't this world.

Redden had a good shot. Chara had a good shot. Gonchar had a good shot. Karlsson had a good shot. Chabot does not. He is not like the other offensive D we had in our history.

For example, tkachuk was criticized that he could only score from 5 ft out...but he improved his shot quite a bit over the years to the point he's a threat to beat a goalie clean from 30 ft out.

Chabot doesn't have that ability for example. If Chabot has the puck at the point with some room to skate in and rifle it on net, I'm never expecting a goal. He doesn't really beat goalies clean unless he's right up in the slot or heavy screening...but that's not what I call clean.

Nobody said his shot is "feared" but all the things you said about his shot were proven wrong by facts.. Here's some eye test now









There's a lot more, of course

 

[jbeck5]

I love facts, only thing that keeps this world real.


Nobody said his shot is "feared" but all the things you said about his shot were proven wrong by facts.. Here's some eye test now









There's a lot more, of course

It's funny how a video is titled all 7 goals for a season.

Not bad. Above average for sure.

Nowhere near good enough as your top offensive threat from the Blueline if you're trying to make the playoffs.