GDT: Game 19: Columbus at Chicago | 2/24 7:00 PM EST

[1857 Howitzer]

Again, why am I paying for this year?

Sell your tickets and don't come back. It was not some big secret that this team was not going to score many goals. Why did you buy tickets knowing this going into it?

 

[Crede777]

You are the exactly like majority of America and why hockey has a tough time spreading, the last 2 games were some of the hardest working, most exciting games we've played in a while. Just because goals aren't scored doesn't make it not exciting, for me it makes it more exciting, knowing every shot COULD win the game.

A 1-0 loss against the #1 team in the nhl, and youre not impressed?!?! With the roster we have, missing arguably our top 3 players?!?!?!?! That was one hell of a game.

I'm trying to advocate what the majority of America thinks.

Of course I'm all for playing it safe. I'm recently came out against trading away Brassard and Umberger for scraps.

But if JD and JK want to be successful, they need to understand how the average person thinks. It isn't about hard work. Hard work by a professional being paid millions to play a game should be a given. Every single player in the entire league should be a "hard worker." If you're mentioning things like "hard work" and "grit" that's code for "lack of talent" and "we're bad."

Sell your tickets and don't come back. It was not some big secret that this team was not going to score many goals. Why did you buy tickets knowing this going into it?

Because it is the job of the front office to put out an entertaining product every single year regardless of how bad the starting roster is. If it's really bad, that means you need to swing some trades and signings pronto. This is a get-rich-quick league where if you aren't producing in a year or two you're out on the street. No time for thinking 5 years down the line, your job is up for grabs tomorrow so do your best today. I was told that this team would win because of its defense and goaltending and by being scrappy. It worked in St. Louis. It worked in Nashville and Phoenix. Why not here?

Also if guys like me sold my tickets, this team would leave the city.

 

[CBJx614]

So give me my money back for this year because obviously they weren't planning on being competitive.

Regardless of the starting roster, if the front office isn't trying to win the cup every year then they should be removed. Ask them what their goal was. Do you think it was "finish last and get a really high pick while keeping budget down?" No. It was "make the playoffs and win the cup." Just as it is every year. And if it isn't, they should say so and say "we're not going to charge full price because this isn't a full team."

lol. Who said we weren't trying to win? Its your fault for investing your money this year, just about everyone knew CBJ weren't going to be competitive this season. And you think the front office isn't committed to winning, JD just fired Howson and now we replaced some of our scouts. Did you expect JD and JK to evaluate everyone overnight and make immediate changes. It takes time. It took Edm 2 last place finishes and a 2nd to last finish to get where they are at. So for us to be like them that means we need at least another season and a half of last place to be exciting.

 

[1857 Howitzer]

I'm trying to advocate what the majority of America thinks.

Of course I'm all for playing it safe. I'm recently came out against trading away Brassard and Umberger for scraps.

But if JD and JK want to be successful, they need to understand how the average person thinks. It isn't about hard work. Hard work by a professional being paid millions to play a game should be a given. Every single player in the entire league should be a "hard worker." If you're mentioning things like "hard work" and "grit" that's code for "lack of talent" and "we're bad."

The majority of America's are morons.

 

[Crede777]

The majority of America's are morons.

They're also the ones that you have to pander to in order to fill the arena.

So for us to be like them that means we need at least another season and a half of last place to be exciting.

JD doesn't start with a blank slate. From my view, we've had 12 years of finishing near last place. Where are the results? Doesn't matter who's in charge.

Are you going to say "sorry we pissed those 12 years away" and expect anybody to want to come back the next year?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Again, why am I paying for this year?

So give me my money back for this year because obviously they weren't planning on being competitive.

I can't tell you how you should spend your money. McDonald's has served some number of billion worldwide. If you asked McDonald's' CEO what his plan was I'm sure you would not get "Serve some of the most vile filth masquerading as food that the world has ever known." Yet people are out there every day forking over cash.

I honestly, don't know how that example fits, but I'm sticking with it. Nobody's paying me anything. My goal is to have better opinions than everyone else. So far it's working out pretty well.

JD doesn't start with a blank slate. From my view, we've had 12 years of finishing near last place. Where are the results? Doesn't matter who's in charge.

Are you going to say "sorry we pissed those 12 years away" and expect anybody to want to come back the next year?

The team is winless under Jarmo. Unacceptable!

 

[CBJx614]

The majority of America's are morons.

exactly, America needs to change the way it thinks, not hockey. With all the rule changes made in the past decade to make hockey more exciting, more and more people are becoming attracted to hockey. When It comes to winning there is no "win quick/get rich quick" scheme that works, you have to take your time, make the right moves and pass on the wrong ones, those take time. Just because America is impatient and wants everything right now, doesn't mean we should give in just because everyone else thinks so. And that's why im glad we have JD. He'll do whats necessary to win, whether it takes a year or three.

 

[Crede777]

I can't tell you how you should spend your money. McDonald's has served some number of billion worldwide. If you asked McDonald's' CEO what his plan was I'm sure you would not get "Serve some of the most vile filth masquerading as food that the world has ever known." Yet people are out there every day forking over cash.

I honestly, don't know how that example fits, but I'm sticking with it. Nobody's paying me anything. My goal is to have better opinions than everyone else. So far it's working out pretty well.

McDonald's at least tastes good in the opinions of the people that buy their food.

That's what I'm saying. Either get healthy food (wins) or get good tasting food (skill). What we have is cauliflower that isn't healthy for you anyways. We have boring systems hockey that doesn't lead to wins.

What's the redeeming quality of this team? There is none. Hard work isn't a redeeming quality, it's an assumption. CBJ fans need to get to the point where they don't even notice that the team (or Mason) hasn't given up on the game because that should have never been occurring in the first place. The fact that we have a team that plays for 60 minutes isn't a step forward anymore than McDonald's promising to cook its meat before serving it to you is a step forward.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

McDonald's at least tastes good in the opinions of the people that buy their food.

That's what I'm saying. Either get healthy food (wins) or get good tasting food (skill). What we have is cauliflower that isn't healthy for you anyways.

What this fails to take into account is the opinions of several posters already in this thread who have said this hockey has been entertaining. So in their opinions... Right?

Or more like "What's with islands? Get more land."

 

[Skraut]

Maybe that is why I make videos.

I enjoy a game if I can pull a highlight out of it. And that highlight can be a goal, a hit, a fight, a faceoff, a player taping his stick, Dancing Kevin doing his thing, fans in the stands having fun.

There's more to enjoying a game than just goals and wins. You can participate in the Jeff Rimer drinking game. You can try and find out how much speed you need to do before George Matthews becomes intelligible. You can hang out and meet other CBJ fans at the cannon after the first intermission. You can make fun of the Blackhawk fan behind you in the Toews jersey yelling "Lets Go 'Toes', I want a goal." You can stop by the R-Bar after a game and piss on the Wings logo. You can get excited for the draft, and stock up on Ben & Jerry's to eat away your sorrows when he busts. And finally you can appreciate the skill and talent level on display, even if most of it is on the other team.

Or you could just go follow basketball. They make a lot of goals.

 

[CBJx614]

JD doesn't start with a blank slate. From my view, we've had 12 years of finishing near last place. Where are the results? Doesn't matter who's in charge.

Are you going to say "sorry we pissed those 12 years away" and expect anybody to want to come back the next year?

yes. because next year we have 3 1st round picks and our first top 3 pick coming into the lineup since rick nash, and another possible top 3 pick making its way into the lineup. That will make next years team very exiciting to watch even if they lose. I know this season is lost, but that doesn't mean ive lost hope for the future. And ive been a jackets fan since day 1. Through all the JACKETS suck I got through school, all my classmates ragging on CBJ, everyone in all the locker rooms ive been in over the past 10 years. And here I sit, more excited for next year than I ever have been as a jackets fan.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I enjoy a game if I can pull a highlight out of it. And that highlight can be a goal, a hit, a fight, a faceoff, a player taping his stick, Dancing Kevin doing his thing, fans in the stands having fun.

Like a giant cauliflower salad that isn't good for you but has a McDonald's french fry at the bottom?

 

[1857 Howitzer]

They're also the ones that you have to pander to in order to fill the arena.

I don't agree with this at all. Hockey is not main stream and does not have to be sold to the majority in order to survive.

 

[bizzz*]

I find this team to be very entertaining. Sure winning would be better then just being entertained, but for a team in rebuild I have enjoyed most of this season and for me this has been the funnest season since 08-09.

I totally agree with you. Even though I want a high draft pick this team makes me root for them every game and feel disappointment after every loss. I see the great base for a successful franchise. They're not good yet, but they're moving in right direction. The Jackets haven't iced even 50% of the talent they gonna have on opening night next season. I mean we permanently have 3-4 guys on IR, Joey is developing pretty nice, Jenner scores on crazy pace in the OHL, the bunch of high picks and Ryan Murray, they gonna trade some defense for offence. When all it done and all the pieces are in place - watch out.

 

[Xoggz22]

Sounds like Mason was solid last night. Anyone else ready to re-sign him long term. I heard it was an exciting defensive game too. Brought fans out of their seats. I can't wait to eat my McDonald's fish bites. I hear that's high end Tuna in there....



I hate seeing this team lose but I have been more interested and committed to this team than the last two years because I have seen effort, some development and truly don't think they are that far off from putting a consistent winner. We are devoid of skill up front but I don't think we are devoid of talent and the defense is likely to continue to get better, we have some offensive pieces in place (not nearly enough) and have gotten better goaltending than I thought we would.

I'm entertained on most nights and have hope for the future.

 

[blahblah]

While I agree with blahblah that this fanbase (myself included) are quite mercurial, we have a right to demand to be entertained while the rebuild occurs. The team doesn't have to be competitive, but it should ALWAYS strive to be an entertaining product.

This team neither wins nor does it produce exciting hockey in the form of offense.

Since I am more entertained by a competitive brand of hockey over 3 goals scored instead of 2, I can't say this is really an issue for me. Then again people watched arena football, so what do I know?

I guess I am just not sure how much of a difference 2.1 goals is versus 2.5 goals is from an entertainment standpoint. We are a goal every other game from being in upper half of goal scoring in the league. I mean if we were scoring 3.2 goals a game, we wouldn't be 30th in the league and would be, at the least, competing for a playoff spot.

I'm not sure how the team can accomplish what you ask, unless what you were saying is that you would rather have watched us lose with Nash and have a 30 goal scorer? I guess that void is filled, for me, by guys like Calvert. That SH'er the other night was very entertaining to me.

With all this drama over goal scoring, we are actually at 2.4 gpg last season. We are at 2.1 so far this year. An extra goal every 3 games sure doesn't seem like a lot.

 

[jdhebner]

Maybe that is why I make videos.

I miss your videos Skraut. Especially the Prospal goal celebrations.....

 

[EspenK]

Jarmo's been here a week now (more or less). Why the heck hasn't he traded Brass for Kane, Umbie for Neal & Savard and a #2 for Charo? WTF is the matter with him? I want to be entertained.

 

[NotWendell]

No one should view their season tickets as an "investment." It's entertainment, pure and simple.

This club doesn't get blown out 8-0 or stop playing in the second period. They don't score, but they are far more entertaining than most of the rosters we've had here.

 

[Derby]

no one should view their season tickets as an "investment." it's entertainment, pure and simple.

this club doesn't get blown out 8-0 or stop playing in the second period. They don't score, but they are far more entertaining than most of the rosters we've had here.

this.

 

[Nanabijou]

While I agree with blahblah that this fanbase (myself included) are quite mercurial, we have a right to demand to be entertained while the rebuild occurs. The team doesn't have to be competitive, but it should ALWAYS strive to be an entertaining product.

This team neither wins nor does it produce exciting hockey in the form of offense. It should strive to do one of those two things. Either play a hard checking, character game and WIN or play a high-flying offensive game. What we are seeing right now is boring systems-based hockey with a team that ends up losing anyways. Why should we pay to see that? I guess egg is on my face for paying thousands of dollars to watch this season when they were just going to mail it in from day 1.

Saying that the team should just instill a high flying offense so that they are more entertaining even if they are losing is easier said than done.

In fact, we already tried this. The last 2 years. Last year, we went all in on Howson and Arniel's plan to try a run 'n gun offense with "3 scoring lines" as an about-face to grinding 'Hitchcock hockey'. We brought in a second bona fide offensive sniper to ride shotgun with Nash and paid a gazillion dollars to a right-handed wiz-kid offensive defenseman. Owners stepped up with wheelbarrows of cash and dumped it right up to the cap.

The problem is that the system was easily exploited. That system had grand canyon-size holes in it that the other teams would walk through. Our goaltending wasn't good, but I don't think Tretiak in his prime would have kept the Jackets alive at the start of last year. Players often skated around with hung heads in the first period as the goals against piled up. We got blown out in our own barn multiple times. Did anyone find those losses more entertaining than this year?

It achieved pretty much universal acceptance around here that the CBJ hit rock bottom and Jacket fandom reached their lowest point ever (don't make me dig up the thread to prove it).

Was some of it Arniel's fault? Sure, but a run 'n gun offense doesn't work unless you have some crazy skill, and some versatile D that can cover you. And that type of skill doesn't grow on trees - it takes alot of time to accumulate it. The Oilers have an incredible collection of young offensive talent, but it doesn't easily translate into wins.

I'll take the this team over last year's any day of the week. Let's build a culture of hard work and start developing skill through the draft. We aren't getting it in free agency for awhile.

I respect and understand your point about spending thousands this year. I have not been to a game this year after averaging about 15 a year the last 4 years. With last year and the lockout, I just didn't renew as I was fed up with the CBJ and the NHL. However, as frustrating as the offense is to watch at times, I'm being slowly won back by this team. I will likely be back next year because I finally get a feeling that we are going to do this right this time.

 

[db2011]

While I agree with blahblah that this fanbase (myself included) are quite mercurial, we have a right to demand to be entertained while the rebuild occurs. The team doesn't have to be competitive, but it should ALWAYS strive to be an entertaining product.

This team neither wins nor does it produce exciting hockey in the form of offense. It should strive to do one of those two things. Either play a hard checking, character game and WIN or play a high-flying offensive game. What we are seeing right now is boring systems-based hockey with a team that ends up losing anyways. Why should we pay to see that? I guess egg is on my face for paying thousands of dollars to watch this season when they were just going to mail it in from day 1.

I'm late to this discussion. Mail it in from day one? But they aren't doing that at all. If that's your assessment, and yours are often quality, I have to question your expectations.

Like others probably, I've been monitoring the Rangers this season. A growing consensus is that they are a soft team, don't stick up for each other, and miss players like Duby and AA. Sound familiar? Well, we got those two now, and I'm glad not to have the "what's our identity?" issue any more.

That may be only slightly related to your post above, but to me these guys are not mailing it in!

Not if they are losing.

The only way losing is acceptable is if we see exciting hockey a la Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov or Ovechkin/Backstrom or Stamkos/St.Louis/Lecavalier. People only accept boring hockey like Lemaire or Hitchcock because it leads to wins. Without the wins, those guys wouldn't (didn't) last a day.

I don't dig defensive play all that much. I recognize it and appreciate it, but for me the thrills come from:
1. Goals
2. Victory

If you're losing, you should at least have a flashy forward who is entertaining to watch. If you lack that forward (like Phoenix and Nashville) you had better win games.

"But we will get that guy in this year's draft!" Again, why am I paying for this year?

I think that's crazy. It would make my skin crawl to support a team that is losing just so I can watch a flashy player in consistently losing efforts.

Your money is your money. I don't have STH money to spend, but I don't support my teams to get something out of it for myself such that I would stop supporting them if I didn't get it. They're just... my teams

 

[I hate the metro]

You don't have to pander to anyone, just f'ing win and people will come. OSU has clearly shown that the masses of Ohio love to come out and show their support for a perennial winner. Tressel ball was not the most exciting but they won and people went to watch. We don't need to worry about how we look while winning, just win.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think that's crazy. It would make my skin crawl to support a team that is losing just so I can watch a flashy player in consistently losing efforts.

Your money is your money. I don't have STH money to spend, but I don't support my teams to get something out of it for myself such that I would stop supporting them if I didn't get it. They're just... my teams

You don't have to pander to anyone, just f'ing win and people will come. OSU has clearly shown that the masses of Ohio love to come out and show their support for a perennial winner. Tressel ball was not the most exciting but they won and people went to watch. We don't need to worry about how we look while winning, just win.

You both are making the wrong (and therefore ineffective) argument here. David says he doesn't want to lose just to have a flashy forward, but Crede says we're losing without one, and would settle for one if we're just going to lose. FIG goes all Al Davis, but again, I think Crede would counter with "but we're not," so what are we getting?

Now, I disagree with Crede, but it's his contention that the hockey we're currently seeing isn't entertaining, because there is no flashy forward and no wins. I would counter that, despite the lack of either, the hockey remains entertaining. I will admit that it hasn't always been so, and others have allowed that it may not remain so, but what we're seeing right now is, IMO, entertaining.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I will add here the obvious and heretofore unmade argument that:
It's totally fair to say that if the team doesn't learn how to play the way it has been recently, which to this point has admittedly not resulted in a bunch of winning, it will continue to not win in future. But its recent play is the kind of play needed to win. So, if you find this recent play unentertaining, you need to ask yourself - "Which of my two criteria do I want the team to strive for? Winning, or losing with a flashy forward?" Because the hard truth is you are going to have to choose.

You are defining "trying to win" very narrowly. It is precisely the lack of significant personnel moves that is the team's current effort to "try to win." The players who are on this team need to be taught how to play the right way, to establish a base line for how to achieve success/results. Adding a flashy forward at this juncture, just for the sake of entertainment (not winning), may actually go counter to this other effort to "try to win."

So I ask you. The team is not meeting either of your "entertainment" criteria. Which of your criteria is more important to you? That will define what you think the team should be doing. If winning is more important, then you will see this current style of hockey as necessary to move from the current losing to consistent winning. If it's a flashy forward you want, then pine for a trade, but recognize that you're likely upsetting the work being done toward winning.