GDT: Game 14: Blues @ Coyotes - 6pm - FSA - Smurfs Edition.

[Edenjung]

Defensive zone turnovers killed us. That's my #1 negative.

Short leash line still bringing it.

All right.

good enough for me.
But we need 2 more points on monday.

And i'll be damned if we don't get them

 

[Name Nameless]

Another point vs St Louis is good. The team is good. There are issues, but it's supposed to be issues. I don't hope for an 8-game series. I doubt they really make it to 56 games this year anyways. That means it will be point-percentage. If the last game isn't moved up, it might get "replaced" by a game against a bad team.

 

[bukwas]

So 6 games into this regular season marathon series i'm curious how fans feel about it. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest positive rating where would you rank this curious scheduling concept?

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Overall I think Hayton has had two good games. He'll learn from that goal.

He did enough IMO to not be sent down, yet. He'll likely be 4C again with Larsson suspended. Then I'd like to see him move to wing the 2nd line.

His biggest issue is playing at NHL speed. Take some pressure off of him by playing wing.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

So 6 games into this regular season marathon series i'm curious how fans feel about it. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest positive rating where would you rank this curious scheduling concept?

As a weird surprise I'd give it an 8. Wasn't expecting this and it's been a good test for the team. Both teams have figured each other out and we're still doing well against a team that was pencilled in for 3rd place.

I wouldn't want this to become normal though, and I'd hate it if it was against Vegas or Colorado and we lost 6 of 7.

 

[PainForShane]

Overall I think Hayton has had two good games. He'll learn from that goal.

He did enough IMO to not be sent down, yet. He'll likely be 4C again with Larsson suspended. Then I'd like to see him move to wing the 2nd line.

His biggest issue is playing at NHL speed. Take some pressure off of him by playing wing.

Yes, exactly. Worth it for all of us to take a breath and realize the entire multiple-screenshot defensive awful play mentioned before by everyone probably took a total of... half a second maybe? NHL speed is much, much faster than anything he's ever seen (and any of us have ever played in for that matter unless there are some former NHLers lurking here).

I wouldn't put him at wing though, he needs to learn how to be a top-6 NHL center, imo the toughest part of being an NHL center is thinking the game in a 200-foot manner which a) is hard and b) he isn't going to get better at while being a wing.

I think I'd give him ~15-17 mins of sheltered minutes (including PP time) but making sure he gets the occasional tough matchup so he's not outclassed when he eventually does go against the Bergerons and MacKinnons of the world.

If he ends up being responsible for a bad goal against every 3 or 4 games who cares, he'll feel bad, learn from his mistakes and get better with time. It's called developing your prospects, would personally love it if we could be better at that than we've shown in the past

 

[Jakey53]

Yes, exactly. Worth it for all of us to take a breath and realize the entire multiple-screenshot defensive awful play mentioned before by everyone probably took a total of... half a second maybe? NHL speed is much, much faster than anything he's ever seen (and any of us have ever played in for that matter unless there are some former NHLers lurking here).

I wouldn't put him at wing though, he needs to learn how to be a top-6 NHL center, imo the toughest part of being an NHL center is thinking the game in a 200-foot manner which a) is hard and b) he isn't going to get better at while being a wing.

I think I'd give him ~15-17 mins of sheltered minutes (including PP time) but making sure he gets the occasional tough matchup so he's not outclassed when he eventually does go against the Bergerons and MacKinnons of the world.

If he ends up being responsible for a bad goal against every 3 or 4 games who cares, he'll feel bad, learn from his mistakes and get better with time. It's called developing your prospects, would personally love it if we could be better at that than we've shown in the past

I thought I was in the minority when I said awhile back that Hayton has not shown much and has to do much better but everyone was saying he's young, needs more TOI and more NHL experience etc. Now I think he is showing much more puck control, patience (compared to where he was) and much more confidence. Even RT shows confidence in him by playing him regularly after that terrible give away. Then, why is it that so many want to send him to Tucson? I'm still not on the Hayton bandwagon as he has to do much more but he is treading in the right direction and that is all you can ask at this stage of his development. Also, who do we have in the system to replace Hayton in the line up that makes the Yotes better?

 

[Canis Latrans]

Hunt inexplicably decided to go off for a change at this exact moment. Why would anyone do that?

I honestly have no idea trying to understand. This goal is by no means Hunt's fault, but I'm just trying to see why anyone would decide to leave the ice when your center has pinned himself below the goal line and is likely about to turn the puck over.

Screenshots thx to NHL.com and the STL feed

Because he thinks he's Drew Doughty.

 

[RemoAZ]

I thought I was in the minority when I said awhile back that Hayton has not shown much and has to do much better but everyone was saying he's young, needs more TOI and more NHL experience etc. Now I think he is showing much more puck control, patience (compared to where he was) and much more confidence. Even RT shows confidence in him by playing him regularly after that terrible give away. Then, why is it that so many want to send him to Tucson? I'm still not on the Hayton bandwagon as he has to do much more but he is treading in the right direction and that is all you can ask at this stage of his development. Also, who do we have in the system to replace Hayton in the line up that makes the Yotes better?

Same. He's finally showing something. Now Tocc just needs to wake up and put him at center with some good wingers to see if he can generate consistent offense. I still want to see Crouse Dvo Garland, Keller Hayton Schmaltz.

 

[lanky]

Same. He's finally showing something. Now Tocc just needs to wake up and put him at center with some good wingers to see if he can generate consistent offense. I still want to see Crouse Dvo Garland, Keller Hayton Schmaltz.

I don't think you can break up the top line yet. Garland will do his thing regardless and I'm not worried about Schmaltz either but I think we need to fluff Keller's cushion for now. He's just finding his confidence and we need that to stick.

 

[cobra427]

I thought I was in the minority when I said awhile back that Hayton has not shown much and has to do much better but everyone was saying he's young, needs more TOI and more NHL experience etc. Now I think he is showing much more puck control, patience (compared to where he was) and much more confidence. Even RT shows confidence in him by playing him regularly after that terrible give away. Then, why is it that so many want to send him to Tucson? I'm still not on the Hayton bandwagon as he has to do much more but he is treading in the right direction and that is all you can ask at this stage of his development. Also, who do we have in the system to replace Hayton in the line up that makes the Yotes better?

Its because too many people are looking at his point production. What has kept Hayton in the NHL is his play away from the puck and lack of mental mistakes and that is why he should stay up. He isn't getting the toughest matchups on D but he also doesn't have the best line mates for production. I think he is coming along nicely, outside of one glaring mistake. His points will come with more time just like we are seeing now with DVO. I actually really like what I see from Hayton.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Its because too many people are looking at his point production. What has kept Hayton in the NHL is his play away from the puck and lack of mental mistakes and that is why he should stay up. He isn't getting the toughest matchups on D but he also doesn't have the best line mates for production. I think he is coming along nicely, outside of one glaring mistake. His points will come with more time just like we are seeing now with DVO. I actually really like what I see from Hayton.

Looking at point production is a real problem around here.

 

[PuckLife]

The funny thing is even if you are just looking at point production, it needs to be in the context of TOI. I haven’t done the math, but I think Hayton’s TOI is half of some of the other forwards. The kid is coming along fine, despite Tocchet not seeming to have a development plan.

 

[MIGs Dog]

The funny thing is even if you are just looking at point production, it needs to be in the context of TOI. I haven’t done the math, but I think Hayton’s TOI is half of some of the other forwards. The kid is coming along fine, despite Tocchet not seeming to have a development plan.

Offensive stats per 60 minutes, forwards only. We need to spend more time trashing Kessel.



Average TOI per game.

 

[Jakey53]

Its because too many people are looking at his point production. What has kept Hayton in the NHL is his play away from the puck and lack of mental mistakes and that is why he should stay up. He isn't getting the toughest matchups on D but he also doesn't have the best line mates for production. I think he is coming along nicely, outside of one glaring mistake. His points will come with more time just like we are seeing now with DVO. I actually really like what I see from Hayton.

Looking at point production is a real problem around here.

Hayton is progressing and that is why I would keep him on the NHL roster, but has not looked at all like a 5OA pick, he just hasn't. You expect a 5OA center to produce, and maybe that is the problem, he is not 5OA player. If he was selected where DVO was we probably would be less critical. I must say that compared to last year he looks much better, and playing C is also very difficult and he is still very young. Kids develop at different rates and there is no way I give up on Hayton. I'm still not a big fan of his, but I'm cheering for him big time.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Hayton is progressing and that is why I would keep him on the NHL roster, but has not looked at all like a 5OA pick, he just hasn't. You expect a 5OA center to produce, and maybe that is the problem, he is not 5OA player. If he was selected where DVO was we probably would be less critical. I must say that compared to last year he looks much better, and playing C is also very difficult and he is still very young. Kids develop at different rates and there is no way I give up on Hayton. I'm still not a big fan of his, but I'm cheering for him big time.

I know, your hung up on where he was drafted - your problem, not his.

 

[PuckLife]

Offensive stats per 60 minutes, forwards only. We need to spend more time trashing Kessel.

View attachment 396571

Average TOI per game.

View attachment 396567

Thanks so much MIGs Dog

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

How many Centers offensively produce like a "top 5" pick 2-3 years after their draft? (Not even 3 years if you think about how 2020 was a hockey wasteland for pretty much all lower hockey levels and even pros). He was drafted in 2018, as a reminder.

Furthermore, how many of those Centers ALSO play a well rounded defensive game and do the little things right? It's gotta be pretty rare after the top 3 picks right?

I just looked through from 2017 till now... It seems rare to me.

My point is this: I'm not worried because it's so rare that a player does both very well this young as a Center. He's doing well with the little things (in my eyes) and his production (remember he's on the Coyotes) isn't terrible either. All things considered... definitely not worried.

 

[PainForShane]

I know, your hung up on where he was drafted - your problem, not his.

Nah, @Jakey53 has a point here. Chayka drafted Hayton 5OA, that was much higher than consensus that year. Hayton was ranked as the #9 north american skater (not even counting european folks), he was drafted just after Brady Tkachuk and just before Filip Zadina and Quinn Hughes.

2018 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia

I don't know much about Filip Zadina but he put up 15 points in 28 NHL games for detroit last year while averaging just over 15 minutes a game (which imo seems far ahead of where Hayton is right now despite Hayton's strong play in the world juniors). Obviously Quinn Hughes is already a perennial all-star.

Also think it's way too early to give up on Hayton but for our sakes probably worth realizing most teams had him as a mid to late first rounder like a Max Domi or something. Someone who could / should become a good NHL player, but maybe not a potential future savior of the franchise. Thinking of him like that, he's tracking along just fine

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Nah, @Jakey53 has a point here. Chayka drafted Hayton 5OA, that was much higher than consensus that year. Hayton was ranked as the #9 north american skater (not even counting european folks), he was drafted just after Brady Tkachuk and just before Filip Zadina and Quinn Hughes.

2018 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia

I don't know much about Filip Zadina but he put up 15 points in 28 NHL games for detroit last year while averaging just over 15 minutes a game (which imo seems far ahead of where Hayton is right now despite Hayton's strong play in the world juniors). Obviously Quinn Hughes is already a perennial all-star.

Also think it's way too early to give up on Hayton but for our sakes probably worth realizing most teams had him as a mid to late first rounder like a Max Domi or something. Someone who could / should become a good NHL player, but maybe not a potential future savior of the franchise. Thinking of him like that, he's tracking along just fine

Point is that all that matters not, it's water under the bridge, history. He's been drafted, be it too early or not, he's here and it's time to move on, get the kid reps and let him develop and maybe one day he'll look like an excellent choice at fifth overall.

 

[Name Nameless]

Nah, @Jakey53 has a point here. Chayka drafted Hayton 5OA, that was much higher than consensus that year. Hayton was ranked as the #9 north american skater (not even counting european folks), he was drafted just after Brady Tkachuk and just before Filip Zadina and Quinn Hughes.

2018 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia

I don't know much about Filip Zadina but he put up 15 points in 28 NHL games for detroit last year while averaging just over 15 minutes a game (which imo seems far ahead of where Hayton is right now despite Hayton's strong play in the world juniors). Obviously Quinn Hughes is already a perennial all-star.

Also think it's way too early to give up on Hayton but for our sakes probably worth realizing most teams had him as a mid to late first rounder like a Max Domi or something. Someone who could / should become a good NHL player, but maybe not a potential future savior of the franchise. Thinking of him like that, he's tracking along just fine

Yeah, I don't think we should hold Haytons draft-position against him. That's unfair. It was unfair against Strome, even if he was drafted where people expected, but it's even more unfair against Hayton.