GDT: Game 11: Kings @ Sharks 7pm ESPN / SN1

[Pinkfloyd]

Ferraro and Rutta are -1 on a team with a -18 goal differential despite being used in a defensive role.

Meanwhile Thrun, Benning and Thompson have been absolutely lit up on the third pair. That's the biggest issue with our defense.

The whole defense is bad from a defensive perspective but it was built that way. Ferraro and Rutta may be -1 on this team when others are worse but they're 5th and 6th xGF%, give up the 2nd and 3rd most scoring chances, give up the most and 2nd most high-danger chances, It tends to correlate to their ice time. I'm not really for benching Ferraro. I'm only for benching Rutta because we have Thompson as an extra and giving Rutta a night off from that sort of regular performance is probably a good thing just to not put it all on them all the time. I don't think we have reasonable replacements for either of them but if anyone is giving a draft pick for Rutta, I don't see why we wouldn't move him and slot Benning in there. Yeah, it can go worse but what results from that that would fundamentally alter the team's course? Probably not a whole lot. Ferraro is a little bit different because we're waiting on prospects to develop and he has that extra year with nobody yet pushing for a spot like his.

 

[Barrie22]

Does anyone have fancy stats?

I suspect Ferraro and Rutta are being given the toughest minutes too

Thompson is -7 for SAT
Ferraro is -10
Rutta is -23
Benning is -32
Thrun is -35

Ferraro is 48.6% for SAT%
Thompson is 47.4%
Ruta is 46.6%
Thrun is 44.2%
Benning is 41.1%

Thompson is the only defensemen that has not been on the ice for a goal for at even.

Walman is head and shoulders ahead of all defensemen in basically every stat i have seen so far. The only positive player for shots and goals.

 

[Cas]

There's not a single team in the NHL that would not have Ferraro in their 6

I'm not sure there's a single real contender that would have him above #6.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm not sure there's a single real contender that would have him above #6.

You would be very wrong

 

[Hodge]

The whole defense is bad from a defensive perspective but it was built that way. Ferraro and Rutta may be -1 on this team when others are worse but they're 5th and 6th xGF%, give up the 2nd and 3rd most scoring chances, give up the most and 2nd most high-danger chances, It tends to correlate to their ice time. I'm not really for benching Ferraro. I'm only for benching Rutta because we have Thompson as an extra and giving Rutta a night off from that sort of regular performance is probably a good thing just to not put it all on them all the time. I don't think we have reasonable replacements for either of them but if anyone is giving a draft pick for Rutta, I don't see why we wouldn't move him and slot Benning in there. Yeah, it can go worse but what results from that that would fundamentally alter the team's course? Probably not a whole lot. Ferraro is a little bit different because we're waiting on prospects to develop and he has that extra year with nobody yet pushing for a spot like his.

Yeah I'm fine with trading Rutta and/or giving him nights off but he's clearly our best option in that role and hasn't performed that terribly all things considered.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If I had to seriously rank our defensemen so far this season I'd do something like:

1. Walman (not even close)



2. Ceci
3. Ferraro
4. Thompson

5. Rutta

6. Thrun
7. Benning


Walman-Ceci and Ferraro-Thompson would probably be adequate middle and bottom pairings respectively on a decent NHL team. They're obviously horribly miscast as first and middle pairings respectively, and Rutta, Thrun, and Benning have simply not looked like NHL players. Rutta is better than Thrun and Benning but he's not nearly good enough to be playing the minutes he does in the situations he's in.

We need Mukhamadullin healthy and up to speed extremely badly, and then to acquire two real middle pairing RHDs like Fabbro in the offseason.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If I had to seriously rank our defensemen so far this season I'd do something like:

1. Walman (not even close)



2. Ceci
3. Ferraro
4. Thompson

5. Rutta

6. Thrun
7. Benning


Walman-Ceci and Ferraro-Thompson would probably be adequate middle and bottom pairings respectively on a decent NHL team. They're obviously horribly miscast as first and middle pairings respectively, and Rutta, Thrun, and Benning have simply not looked like NHL players. Rutta is better than Thrun and Benning but he's not nearly good enough to be playing the minutes he does in the situations he's in.

We need Mukhamadullin healthy and up to speed extremely badly, and then to acquire two real middle pairing RHDs like Fabbro in the offseason.

Well, really they need a legit #1 defenseman.

Rutta is so inept offensively, and so many plays die on his stick that I don't think he's NHL-caliber any longer.

 

[Alaskanice]

Good defenses give up fewer shot attempts, including at the end of wins. Winning, possessing and moving pucks contribute to that. If a team is allowing a shooting gallery and blocking a lot of shots for that reason, that is not good.

Having an extra skater on the opposing team tends to cause a shooting gallery.

I'm not sure there's a single real contender that would have him above #6.

If I were a GM, I’d certainly have him in my top 6.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Well, really they need a legit #1 defenseman.

Rutta is so inept offensively, and so many plays die on his stick that I don't think he's NHL-caliber any longer.

Obviously. But that's not realistically happening in the near future.

IMO there are four ways to get a #1 defenseman historically: a) draft one in the top-10 and get lucky with their development, b) draft later than the top-5/acquire via a trade a promising young defenseman and get lucky with their development, c) acquire a mid-20's middle pairing defenseman and get lucky that he develops into a true #1D, and d) acquire an older kinda-sorta-#1D with extenuating circumstances and/or considerable future risk and get lucky that they maintain #1D level play into their late thirties. Think a) Heiskanen/Makar/Doughty/Sanderson, b) Vlasic/Karlsson/Carlson/Slavin, c) Burns/Forsling, and d) Boyle.

You can't just go out and "get" a #1D. I am of the (potentially unpopular) opinion that while there is such a thing as a "gimme" #1C that you can draft and be absolutely certain they will be a #1C (like Macklin Celebrini), there is no defensive prospect that is ever good enough at age 18 to be absolutely sure that they are going to be a #1D. Rasmus Dahlin was the most hyped defensive prospect in a decade and he took forever to get to #1D status (and personally I don't love him). Owen Power seems like he's likely to top out at good #3. Artyeom Levshunov could end up just a good middle-pairing guy.

For now, you build the best defense you can by committee and hope that someone like Dickinson (or potentially Schaefer) becomes the guy you need him to be. Part of developing a great defenseman is setting him up to succeed. Part of that is making sure that when our prospects break into the league they have a partner who can complement their skills and be a functional unit.

Back to Rutta--I agree he isn't an every-day caliber defenseman. I think he's a fine #7 and an okay #6 if you have five defensemen who are clearly better. We don't, ergo Rutta is a problem. But he looked pretty decent with Mukhamadullin in his short action last year, maybe some chemistry will carry over...

 

[Saskatoon]

Thompson is -7 for SAT
Ferraro is -10
Rutta is -23
Benning is -32
Thrun is -35

Ferraro is 48.6% for SAT%
Thompson is 47.4%
Ruta is 46.6%
Thrun is 44.2%
Benning is 41.1%

Thompson is the only defensemen that has not been on the ice for a goal for at even.

Walman is head and shoulders ahead of all defensemen in basically every stat i have seen so far. The only positive player for shots and goals.

I was wondering more about deployment (i.e who plays against the top threasts, who starts more in the defensive zone, etc)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yeah I'm fine with trading Rutta and/or giving him nights off but he's clearly our best option in that role and hasn't performed that terribly all things considered.

If we're going to run Thrun and Thompson in the lineup, I don't think they should be playing together and splitting up Ferraro and Rutta seems like the best option to address that. If we're only going to run Thrun or one specific young defenseman needing experience and Benning then yeah keep them together but it's always going to be shaky because they don't have the puck skills to stay out of their end enough and eventually the bottom will drop out. Not that that matters for us as a rebuilding club but I'm expecting more young defensemen to be provided opportunities and I'd like to see at least two of them in the lineup regularly if we're just going to be okay with losing and being awful.

 

[Star Platinum]

Professional sports team it’s part of being pro

You don't see injured football players or basketball players on the sidelines in suits

He should have to be in full uniform. Helmet and all.

Skates too, which makes it a bitch to go to the bathroom

This is hockey culture... Suits are the norm across the league for pregame, during game, hell even at the NHL draft the kids were all in high end suits and their moms and sisters were all wearing fancy cocktail attire. Not something to be mad at Warso about, definitely another quirk about hockey you can like or dislike.

Soon as we get that angry icon, I will put it next to all pictures of injured Mackln in his three piece suit nervously fidgeting with his tie during games.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

You don't see injured football players or basketball players on the sidelines in suits

I don’t watch those bum sports anymore, but I can say with certainty basketball players used to.

 

[Grave]

I just finished watching the game from my DVR. This team has changed a lot since I last watched religiously. I like all the new faces and the speed I see out there (at points).

Cheers all, missed all you guys.

Go sharks!

 

[gaucholoco3]

That block was vital to winning this game.

So you know for a fact that shot is beating the goalie from the point??

Yes it was a great play, but let’s not pretend it was vital to winning. It just makes him look tough which does have value to his teammates.

 

[Alaskanice]

So you know for a fact that shot is beating the goalie from the point??

Yes it was a great play, but let’s not pretend it was vital to winning. It just makes him look tough which does have value to his teammates.

When the block was made, the game wasn’t put away yet. Any shot may have scored and would’ve tied the game. Mario makes the block, stopping a potential goal, the puck gets out of the zone, Eklund scores an empty net goal.
Game over. Vital to winning.

 

[gaucholoco3]

When the block was made, the game wasn’t put away yet. Any shot may have scored and would’ve tied the game. Mario makes the block, stopping a potential goal, the puck gets out of the zone, Eklund scores an empty net goal.
Game over. Vital to winning.

It was a gritty play but he literally didn’t move and the puck hit him when he was covering a forward down low.

Just because he sacrificed his body and got hurt doesn’t mean it was essential to winning. I would guess the expected chance of a goal on that shot is below 1%.

 

[Alaskanice]

It was a gritty play but he literally didn’t move and the puck hit him when he was covering a forward down low.

Just because he sacrificed his body and got hurt doesn’t mean it was essential to winning. I would guess the expected chance of a goal on that shot is below 1%.

Potential goal doesn’t mean that direct shot. It can deflect off someone, be tipped, goalie makes a save and loses the rebound. That block took all of that away. It led directly to the puck going the other way and out of the zone.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Potential goal doesn’t mean that direct shot. It can deflect off someone, be tipped, goalie makes a save and loses the rebound. That block took all of that away. It led directly to the puck going the other way and out of the zone.

So does a poke check. Doesn’t mean we have have to glorify it.

 

[Alaskanice]

So does a poke check. Doesn’t mean we have have to glorify it.

I guess I’m going to have to tone it down. Force myself to minimize the impact of that play.

 

[karltonian]

Does anyone have fancy stats?

I suspect Ferraro and Rutta are being given the toughest minutes too

The aren't getting absolutely buried but they are taking more % defensive zone starts than Walman-Ceci. So that suggests they are viewed as the shutdown pair.

 

[karltonian]

oops wrong thread

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Oops. Wrong thread