GDT: Game 10: Sharks @ Utah 6:00pm NBCSCA

[Pinkfloyd]

While I agree about Celebrini, and I think he’s gonna be one of the most dominant players in the league, I also think it’s important to keep expectations grounded for the year.

I feel my expectations for Celebrini are grounded. My point in this context is more that this team is doing better than last year's even with the injuries as they are and the softer schedule afforded to them this season. Last year's team gave up a similar amount of goals to this team but only had 10 goals after the 10 game mark. They have 23 this year with 19 being without Celebrini in the lineup. Granted, that is still hardly impressive but it is better than the historically awful start they had last year. I originally was responding to the idea that it's frustrating to see them not starting off much better. They're starting off better without their best player and will be much better with their best player regardless of what he ends up producing by season's end. This team is still the worst in the league but they're still trending up as it is and will trend up sharper when Celebrini is healthy.

 

[TheBeard]

I feel my expectations for Celebrini are grounded. My point in this context is more that this team is doing better than last year's even with the injuries as they are and the softer schedule afforded to them this season. Last year's team gave up a similar amount of goals to this team but only had 10 goals after the 10 game mark. They have 23 this year with 19 being without Celebrini in the lineup. Granted, that is still hardly impressive but it is better than the historically awful start they had last year. I originally was responding to the idea that it's frustrating to see them not starting off much better. They're starting off better without their best player and will be much better with their best player regardless of what he ends up producing by season's end. This team is still the worst in the league but they're still trending up as it is and will trend up sharper when Celebrini is healthy.

I do agree that Celebrini in the line-up makes this a different team, however my disdain comes from the fact that without him in the lineup they're basically the same. Like I said last year by game 10 they played their first ten games against playoff teams and 13 of their first 14 (although game 13 was against a completely different Edmonton team). This year we've had a significant lighter schedule including against three games against teams that finished in the bottom 3. The results so far this year against the heavy hitters (Winnipeg and Vegas) have been more or less on par with how we performed last year while the Dallas game, like Colorado's last year, was close because of Blackwood. Their starts in each game, when they SHOULD be able to look their best have been abysmal to say the least. You talk of an increase in goals, but let's look at who most of the damage has come against. A back-up in Hofer with Celebrini in the lineup, Adin Hill in garbage time with the game already in doubt, same with Winnipeg and Hellebuyck and now Connor Ingram in a miracle 6 minute span. The other 6 were against the likes of Mrazek, Dostal, Rittich and Annunen.

But, I'm not even concerned about the goals. As I've said many many times, I don't expect wins this year and without Mack in the line-up expecting a dramatic increase in goals was unrealistic. It's the basic fundamentals of how they played that bothered me. The slow starts, the lazy stick work leading to penalties, the bad line-changes leading to bench minors. I admit a lot of it could be chalked up to a massive change in personnel, so my cynicism is clearly irrationally impatient.
Yesterday was the first time they resembled a competent team even if it took the entire first period for it to happen. But even down 4-1 they looked like a defeated team with no energy whether on the ice or on the bench. Losing streaks will do that, but that's why coaches matter. It's their job to get the most, the best out of the players, regardless of talent level. I wasn't sure what War's actual job was yesterday and if Fabio didn't knock in that rebound to make it 4-2 perhaps we're having a different conversation.

Hopefully getting that first victory will change the mindset.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I do agree that Celebrini in the line-up makes this a different team, however my disdain comes from the fact that without him in the lineup they're basically the same. Like I said last year by game 10 they played their first ten games against playoff teams and 13 of their first 14 (although game 13 was against a completely different Edmonton team). This year we've had a significant lighter schedule including against three games against teams that finished in the bottom 3. The results so far this year against the heavy hitters (Winnipeg and Vegas) have been more or less on par with how we performed last year while the Dallas game, like Colorado's last year, was close because of Blackwood. Their starts in each game, when they SHOULD be able to look their best have been abysmal to say the least. You talk of an increase in goals, but let's look at who most of the damage has come against. A back-up in Hofer with Celebrini in the lineup, Adin Hill in garbage time with the game already in doubt, same with Winnipeg and Hellebuyck and now Connor Ingram in a miracle 6 minute span. The other 6 were against the likes of Mrazek, Dostal, Rittich and Annunen.

But, I'm not even concerned about the goals. As I've said many many times, I don't expect wins this year and without Mack in the line-up expecting a dramatic increase in goals was unrealistic. It's the basic fundamentals of how they played that bothered me. The slow starts, the lazy stick work leading to penalties, the bad line-changes leading to bench minors. I admit a lot of it could be chalked up to a massive change in personnel, so my cynicism is clearly irrationally impatient.
Yesterday was the first time they resembled a competent team even if it took the entire first period for it to happen. But even down 4-1 they looked like a defeated team with no energy whether on the ice or on the bench. Losing streaks will do that, but that's why coaches matter. It's their job to get the most, the best out of the players, regardless of talent level. I wasn't sure what War's actual job was yesterday and if Fabio didn't knock in that rebound to make it 4-2 perhaps we're having a different conversation.

Hopefully getting that first victory will change the mindset.

I would expect this team to be largely the same as last year without Celebrini in the lineup. They have fewer reliable offensive players without him than last year and the defense and goaltending is still the same sort of outmatched against their competition. The blue line got better talent this time around but it's hard to notice when everyone is still largely in over their head for what they're being asked to do. Between the team getting a little younger and inexperienced and tasking a young rookie to be the head coach with only two years of NHL experience as an assistant, the fundamentals were probably going to be a problem on a team focused on development from younger players.

I agree that coaches matter but I think expectations need to stay grounded for that area of things too because of who it is, the team's makeup, and what their priorities are. I also agree it's a different conversation if they just ended up losing by the 4-1 margin they were looking at. I would still want to exercise patience with Warsofsky and the team because everything going into the game is still true about the team win or lose. They're a team that fills out most of their spots with veterans that aren't good enough for what they're asked and are sprinkling in inexperienced players in certain spots while missing their best player being coached by a rookie. This team is still going to make a lot of mistakes this season and lose a lot of games. The only thing that really makes this season a success is if Celebrini looks like the real deal, Eklund and Zetterlund show consistency to their game, and someone else in the same age group steps in to establish themselves as an NHL'er moving forward. Whether that's Smith or Gushchin or Mukhamadullin or Thrun or Thompson or Cagnoni or Bystedt or Cardwell or Graf or Bordeleau or someone else. We are still very much stripped to the studs here and need to be patient with the team.

 

[landshark]

SNOG
Hockey clubs - 4: Shillelagh, Aklys, Nunchaku X 2
Sharks - 2: Ek and Granny

haha

I like that I had zero time between my SNOG hitting and Granny scoring the Sharks third goal...

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I would consider 1-7-2 to be much better than the 0-9-1 start we got off to last season when nine of those ten games were without Celebrini. We're still not a lock for the worst team in the league. As bad of a start as this is, we're one point behind next to last who have a game in hand on us and three points behind the other bottom five teams in the league. This team is going to win more games after Celebrini gets back in there. It won't be many but it will be more than last season.

Last night's win kind of helped make everything better. In fact, I might have a little bit of optimism that they could go on a little run, and then Celebrini comes back and the season can finally get going. I'm not saying, nor wanting, the Sharks to be a stanley cup contender, but finally winning a game, and doing it earlier than last year, makes the optics look a whole lot better.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Last year, after 82 games, the Sharks were close only to Chicago in 5v5 Corsi and xGoal metrics and far behind everybody else. This year, they’re still very bad, but they’re ahead of a few teams, including the Red Wings in year 6 of the Yzerplan.

The 9 losses to start the season was hilarious and demoralizing, but when you detach yourself from the emotions and look at the facts, it is clear that they’ve improved. The biggest reason for their abhorrent record is a .951 5v5 PDO (Sh% + Sv%), which is enough to sink any elite team. (For reference, the cup favorite Oilers are below .500 due to their .949 PDO). Our goalies and shooters may be below average but they’re not anywhere .951 PDO bad.

Bottom line - the team is not getting caved in anywhere near as bad as they did last year. It’s a big improvement even without Celebrini and that’ll be easier to see once the goaltending and shooting reverts to the mean.

 

[Chinaski89]

Just finished watching the replay. Feels good to get the win but going down 4-1 to begin with is no bueno.

Also Kostin was stapled to the bench after Utah's third goal. I think he's gonna find himself on waivers again once Celebrini comes back.

Good. I want Guschin to stay up all season.

 

[Jargon]

Last year, after 82 games, the Sharks were close only to Chicago in 5v5 Corsi and xGoal metrics and far behind everybody else. This year, they’re still very bad, but they’re ahead of a few teams, including the Red Wings in year 6 of the Yzerplan.

The 9 losses to start the season was hilarious and demoralizing, but when you detach yourself from the emotions and look at the facts, it is clear that they’ve improved. The biggest reason for their abhorrent record is a .951 5v5 PDO (Sh% + Sv%), which is enough to sink any elite team. (For reference, the cup favorite Oilers are below .500 due to their .949 PDO). Our goalies and shooters may be below average but they’re not anywhere .951 PDO bad.

Bottom line - the team is not getting caved in anywhere near as bad as they did last year. It’s a big improvement even without Celebrini and that’ll be easier to see once the goaltending and shooting reverts to the mean.

I think you can tell by eye test too. They’ve looked far more competitive in 10 games than last year where they mostly looked like an ECHL team. They have managed to hold the zone and pressure teams, they don’t get hemmed in for 18 minutes straight, etc.

I think the losses definitely made everyone grip their sticks and overthink everything but this is clearly a better team. I think when Celebrini comes back, we might even be able to string together more than one win at a time.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think the body language is better at the very least. These guys gave up last year and the year before. The lack of effort from Couture down was just gross and unprofessional.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Last year, after 82 games, the Sharks were close only to Chicago in 5v5 Corsi and xGoal metrics and far behind everybody else. This year, they’re still very bad, but they’re ahead of a few teams, including the Red Wings in year 6 of the Yzerplan.

The 9 losses to start the season was hilarious and demoralizing, but when you detach yourself from the emotions and look at the facts, it is clear that they’ve improved. The biggest reason for their abhorrent record is a .951 5v5 PDO (Sh% + Sv%), which is enough to sink any elite team. (For reference, the cup favorite Oilers are below .500 due to their .949 PDO). Our goalies and shooters may be below average but they’re not anywhere .951 PDO bad.

Bottom line - the team is not getting caved in anywhere near as bad as they did last year. It’s a big improvement even without Celebrini and that’ll be easier to see once the goaltending and shooting reverts to the mean.

Completely agree. The puck luck is brutal right now--as Drew said last night, we've hit like eight posts in the last few games. The underlying metrics are surprisingly decent.

This is a below average finishing team with a below average goaltending duo, so probably still the worst team in the league, but this bad start is mostly down to bad luck, whereas last year's bad start was legitimately because this team was horrible.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851116629314150714

 

[Chinaski89]

He said something mean about another player's mom or something obviously.

Oh no… is Zetts the Sharks’ and Celebrini’s Corey Perry! Perry gets tomato face, too, right?

 

[LilLeeroy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851116629314150714

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851121448762687872

 

[Chinaski89]

haha

I like that I had zero time between my SNOG hitting and Granny scoring the Sharks third goal...

I feel this. I was ecstatic when they got that second goal thinking I’d finally have a SNOG this year. Terribly disappointed when I saw them instantly pull their goalie which Wars is prone to do - must rethink my consistent 4-2 sharks loss predictions because of this - mad as hell when they got the 3rd ruining my dreams. Ecstatic when they tied it up but also resigned to Utah somehow winning and then overjoyed and exuberant when they won in OT. My poor gf witnessed it all and made the joke that my bipolar disorder finally reared its head again.

 

[gaucholoco3]

While the comeback was great and they generally controlled the play in the 3rd let’s not forget that the 4 goals to end the game were the result of basically two players executing the same play 4 straight times to magically get 4 goals.

Wennberg face off win to a Granlund point shot somehow got 4 goals on the exact same play. The Sharks team didn’t earn this win. Those two players and Toffoli, Eklund, and Zetterlund to a lesser extent are the only players responsible for the win.

The Sharks got lucky to get those comeback goals which is great. They were due some puck luck. Hopefully they can take the momentum and actually earn a win in the next few games.

 

[Star Platinum]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851267304639905889

 

[Alaskanice]

While the comeback was great and they generally controlled the play in the 3rd let’s not forget that the 4 goals to end the game were the result of basically two players executing the same play 4 straight times to magically get 4 goals.

Wennberg face off win to a Granlund point shot somehow got 4 goals on the exact same play. The Sharks team didn’t earn this win. Those two players and Toffoli, Eklund, and Zetterlund to a lesser extent are the only players responsible for the win.

The Sharks got lucky to get those comeback goals which is great. They were due some puck luck. Hopefully they can take the momentum and actually earn a win in the next few games.

They don’t ask how pretty, they ask how many.

 

[CHALUPA]

While the comeback was great and they generally controlled the play in the 3rd let’s not forget that the 4 goals to end the game were the result of basically two players executing the same play 4 straight times to magically get 4 goals.

Wennberg face off win to a Granlund point shot somehow got 4 goals on the exact same play. The Sharks team didn’t earn this win. Those two players and Toffoli, Eklund, and Zetterlund to a lesser extent are the only players responsible for the win.

The Sharks got lucky to get those comeback goals which is great. They were due some puck luck. Hopefully they can take the momentum and actually earn a win in the next few games.

I thought they played a good game in general yesterday

 

[Star Platinum]

I thought they played a good game in general yesterday

They at least held serve for the first 10 minutes, which was about 9 minutes longer than they have for the last couple of weeks. Things weren't all that good after that until the third.

 

[coooldude]

They at least held serve for the first 10 minutes, which was about 9 minutes longer than they have for the last couple of weeks. Things weren't all that good after that until the third.

I love these visualizations (expected goals chart, scroll down), which basically shows it was an even game ish, through half the game, then we lost the second half of the second period, then we came on strong at the end obviously**.

MoneyPuck.com

Real Time Hockey Win Probabilities In Game

moneypuck.com

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851331350542106953

 

[landshark]

I feel this. I was ecstatic when they got that second goal thinking I’d finally have a SNOG this year. Terribly disappointed when I saw them instantly pull their goalie which Wars is prone to do - must rethink my consistent 4-2 sharks loss predictions because of this - mad as hell when they got the 3rd ruining my dreams. Ecstatic when they tied it up but also resigned to Utah somehow winning and then overjoyed and exuberant when they won in OT. My poor gf witnessed it all and made the joke that my bipolar disorder finally reared its head again.

This year? My snogless streak puts the Sharks woes to absolute shame. (I'm pretty sure I've never gotten one, but I don't try every game either)

I hear you on the roller coaster of emotions, that game was crazy. I got to finally say to my gf, "See, this is why they pull the goalie..." She's only seen the Sharks have empty netters scored against them in the situation. She's always like, "goddammit why pull the goalie..." TBH 99% of the time I'm with her. It feels like there should be some data somewhere on the efficacy of pulling the goalie.

In other news, f***ing football helmet?

GTFO with that shit. f*** football.

 

[Star Platinum]

This year? My snogless streak puts the Sharks woes to absolute shame. (I'm pretty sure I've never gotten one, but I don't try every game either)

I hear you on the roller coaster of emotions, that game was crazy. I got to finally say to my gf, "See, this is why they pull the goalie..." She's only seen the Sharks have empty netters scored against them in the situation. She's always like, "goddammit why pull the goalie..." TBH 99% of the time I'm with her. It feels like there should be some data somewhere on the efficacy of pulling the goalie.

In other news, f***ing football helmet?

GTFO with that shit. f*** football.

Should be a goalie mask

 

[landshark]

Should be a goalie mask

Old skool one, ala Jason Voorhees.


Happy Halloween!!