Gabriel Vilardi or Brandon Hagel?

[cneely]

He's on because he's better than Scheifele or Vilardi, much better. Enjoy crying about it.

You actually believe Hagel and cirelli are top 13 Canadian hockey forwards.

Cute.

 

[Sky04]

You actually believe Hagel and cirelli are top 13 Canadian hockey forwards.

Cute.

You can't even say why Hagel isn't or maybe you're just not smart enough. Cute.

 

[Jericho111091]

I'd probably put them in the same tier, I just like Vilardi slightly more

 

[cneely]

You can't even say why Hagel isn't or maybe you're just not smart enough. Cute.

Over the last 3 years, he’s tied for 89th in points per game.

Meanwhile, he’s 110th in on ice expected goals against per 60.

Hagel is a decent player. There is no chance he sniffs team Canada if Cooper isn’t coaching

 

[Regal]

Over the last 3 years, he’s tied for 89th in points per game.

Meanwhile, he’s 110th in on ice expected goals against per 60.

Hagel is a decent player. There is no chance he sniffs team Canada if Cooper isn’t coaching

Where did you pull these numbers out of? He’s 47th in points per game over the last 3 years. He’s 15th among Canadian forwards in points per game in that time frame.

So even just based on points per game, he’d be getting a sniff. But more importantly, on a team with McDavid, MacKinnon, Makar, Marner, Point and Crosby to fill up PP time, he’s tied for 18th in the league in 5v5 points, and 7th in 5v5 points among Canadians.

He also has an xGF% of 55%, and very strong underlying numbers based on regression and GAR:

He’s also natural left wing, where Canada is weaker, he has familiarity with Point, who was one of the early locks on the team, and is a strong PKer.

The idea that he wouldn’t get a sniff without Cooper seems based on your own opinions rather than anything tangible

 

[cneely]

Where did you pull these numbers out of? He’s 47th in points per game over the last 3 years. He’s 15th among Canadian forwards in points per game in that time frame.

So even just based on points per game, he’d be getting a sniff. But more importantly, on a team with McDavid, MacKinnon, Makar, Marner, Point and Crosby to fill up PP time, he’s tied for 18th in the league in 5v5 points, and 7th in 5v5 points among Canadians.

He also has an xGF% of 55%, and very strong underlying numbers based on regression and GAR:

View attachment 970254View attachment 970255

He’s also natural left wing, where Canada is weaker, he has familiarity with Point, who was one of the early locks on the team, and is a strong PKer.

The idea that he wouldn’t get a sniff without Cooper seems based on your own opinions rather than anything tangible

Where did you pull these numbers out of? He’s 47th in points per game over the last 3 years. He’s 15th among Canadian forwards in points per game in that time frame.

So even just based on points per game, he’d be getting a sniff. But more importantly, on a team with McDavid, MacKinnon, Makar, Marner, Point and Crosby to fill up PP time, he’s tied for 18th in the league in 5v5 points, and 7th in 5v5 points among Canadians.

He also has an xGF% of 55%, and very strong underlying numbers based on regression and GAR:

View attachment 970254View attachment 970255

He’s also natural left wing, where Canada is weaker, he has familiarity with Point, who was one of the early locks on the team, and is a strong PKer.

The idea that he wouldn’t get a sniff without Cooper seems based on your own opinions rather than anything tangible

Sorry, you’re right, I went last 3 full years plus this year so technically 3 and a half. His numbers have been getting better so more recent is likely more relevant.

His numbers are fine. They aren’t selke numbers. His giveaways are certainly concerning for a guy who you want to take for defensive reasons.

 

[cneely]

Where did you pull these numbers out of? He’s 47th in points per game over the last 3 years. He’s 15th among Canadian forwards in points per game in that time frame.

So even just based on points per game, he’d be getting a sniff. But more importantly, on a team with McDavid, MacKinnon, Makar, Marner, Point and Crosby to fill up PP time, he’s tied for 18th in the league in 5v5 points, and 7th in 5v5 points among Canadians.

He also has an xGF% of 55%, and very strong underlying numbers based on regression and GAR:

View attachment 970254View attachment 970255

He’s also natural left wing, where Canada is weaker, he has familiarity with Point, who was one of the early locks on the team, and is a strong PKer.

The idea that he wouldn’t get a sniff without Cooper seems based on your own opinions rather than anything tangible

You do realize that 6 of those 15 ahead of him in points per game are not on team Canada, right?

 

[OilWagon]

You do realize that 6 of those 15 ahead of him in points per game are not on team Canada, right?

Yeah and how much of those are pp points? The point is he has elite 5 on 5 production and his role isn't going to be on the pp.

 

[cneely]

So we pick a role for him instead of just putting the best players on the team?

Canada’s leading goal scorer and the guy who has 4th most point amongst Canadians isn’t good enough but this guy is.

Hyman, not good enough. RNH, who has a better PPG avg over the last 2 years and better defensive numbers isn’t good enough.

It’s a bad pick.

 

[Xspyrit]

Over the last 3 years, he’s tied for 89th in points per game.

Meanwhile, he’s 110th in on ice expected goals against per 60.

Hagel is a decent player. There is no chance he sniffs team Canada if Cooper isn’t coaching

Bias is a fascinating thing...

Every human being is subject to bias but I think normal adults try to manage them as much as possible. Then there's people like this... but that's free dopamine though so I'm not complaining.

 

[Pongs21]

Body of work clearly points to Hagel at this point in their careers. Vilardi has been a perennial band-aid to start his career and is just starting to take off. If he can remain healthy and sustain or even continue to elevate his play, it would be an interesting poll in a few years, but as of right now, it's Hagel.

 

[olli]

No one said he wasn't a good player. He's never hit a PPG in a season. That's a fact.


He's decent, but you can't really honestly compare him to players like Stone and Marchand.


What metrics would you like to use?

How could you possibly justify Marchand being better than Hagel the last year and a half???

 

[olli]

So we pick a role for him instead of just putting the best players on the team?

Canada’s leading goal scorer and the guy who has 4th most point amongst Canadians isn’t good enough but this guy is.

Hyman, not good enough. RNH, who has a better PPG avg over the last 2 years and better defensive numbers isn’t good enough.

It’s a bad pick.

Where are you getting the RNH numbers from

 

[Sky04]

So we pick a role for him instead of just putting the best players on the team?

Canada’s leading goal scorer and the guy who has 4th most point amongst Canadians isn’t good enough but this guy is.

Hyman, not good enough. RNH, who has a better PPG avg over the last 2 years and better defensive numbers isn’t good enough.

It’s a bad pick.

Math must be hard, RNH has 100 points in his last 131 games. You can work out Hagel's yourself, you can do it buddy.

 

[njdevils1982]

i find it hilarious the sabres 'gave up' on hagel

 

[Regal]

So we pick a role for him instead of just putting the best players on the team?

Canada’s leading goal scorer and the guy who has 4th most point amongst Canadians isn’t good enough but this guy is.

Hyman, not good enough. RNH, who has a better PPG avg over the last 2 years and better defensive numbers isn’t good enough.

It’s a bad pick.

That’s how teams are made

There’s lots of good Canadian players so maybe he doesn’t make everyone’s roster, but suggesting it’s a bad pick despite all the numbers put in front of you suggests you might need to reevaluate this player

 

[Regal]

You do realize that 6 of those 15 ahead of him in points per game are not on team Canada, right?

Are those players not in contention for a spot? I would say the only two not on the team’s radar ahead of him are RNH and Stamkos, both of whose production has tanked since 22-23, while Hagel’s has improved. That also means that there’s multiple players on the team below him. You said the only way he’s on the team is due to Cooper. But if he’s a top 15 scorer among Canadian forwards (and higher in a more recent time frame), as well as a strong all around player, how would he not be considered even if Cooper wasn’t the coach?

 

[FlyguyOX]

Sorry, you’re right, I went last 3 full years plus this year so technically 3 and a half. His numbers have been getting better so more recent is likely more relevant.

His numbers are fine. They aren’t selke numbers. His giveaways are certainly concerning for a guy who you want to take for defensive reasons.

Just say you've never watched him man

 

[cneely]

Math must be hard, RNH has 100 points in his last 131 games. You can work out Hagel's yourself, you can do it buddy.

Here you go.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

That’s how teams are made

There’s lots of good Canadian players so maybe he doesn’t make everyone’s roster, but suggesting it’s a bad pick despite all the numbers put in front of you suggests you might need to reevaluate this player

Others have better numbers. Those are facts.

 

[Sky04]

Here you go.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Others have better numbers. Those are facts.

Name 13 forwards this and last year.

Should be easy, you can do it pal.


RNH? Yikes, 93rd in ESP that's only amongst Canadians as well but he makes your team Canada I guess.

 

[cneely]

Are those players not in contention for a spot? I would say the only two not on the team’s radar ahead of him are RNH and Stamkos, both of whose production has tanked since 22-23, while Hagel’s has improved. That also means that there’s multiple players on the team below him. You said the only way he’s on the team is due to Cooper. But if he’s a top 15 scorer among Canadian forwards (and higher in a more recent time frame), as well as a strong all around player, how would he not be considered even if Cooper wasn’t the coach?

To consider only points and to further cherry pick a timeline seems a little disingenuous. Marchand certainly seems to be trending down offensively, but maybe that needs a little context when the Lightning have scored 30 more goals this year.

Over the last 2 full seasons, he's been outscored by Marchand, by Nick Suzuki, Tuch, Verhaege, Morrissey, Tavares, Pavelski, Horvat.

Maybe he's coming in to his own. Maybe he's had a hot stretch. Maybe we should consider giving credit to a guy like Scheifele who is not only scoring more now, but has been doing it for a dozen years.

Verhaege has had seasons of 72 and 73 points. Suzuki had 77 last year. Why aren't they being considered?

 

[bov]

To consider only points and to further cherry pick a timeline seems a little disingenuous. Marchand certainly seems to be trending down offensively, but maybe that needs a little context when the Lightning have scored 30 more goals this year.

Over the last 2 full seasons, he's been outscored by Marchand, by Nick Suzuki, Tuch, Verhaege, Morrissey, Tavares, Pavelski, Horvat.

Maybe he's coming in to his own. Maybe he's had a hot stretch. Maybe we should consider giving credit to a guy like Scheifele who is not only scoring more now, but has been doing it for a dozen years.

Verhaege has had seasons of 72 and 73 points. Suzuki had 77 last year. Why aren't they being considered?

Because they're not as good. Talk about cherry picking timelines, all you can do is bring in last year and prior to make the numbers suit your feeble point. You don't know Hagel as a player and it's glaringly obvious. Bringing up guys like Hopkins and Hyman as if they should be in his place...wow.

While you're at it, take a look at how dependent Vilardi's offense is on Winnipeg's best players. The vast majority of his points are tied to Scheifele, Connor, and a lesser extent Ehlers. Hagel on the other hand only has Kucherov involved in 7 of his 54 points. Brayden Point has only factored into 2 of them. Hagel is dominating at even strength as the driver of his linemates, while being stapled to Cirelli.

It's not even a matter of opinion to say he's one of the best two way wingers in the league and Canadian wingers..the evidence is clear.