Gabriel Vilardi or Brandon Hagel?

[cneely]

Of course we're not talking about it being black or white... that was the point

Nevermind please, I'm hoping the other poster can come and explain you, not me.

So you don't have any. Got it.

Didn't he run an innocent player for scoring on empty net? Yeah can see why they don't want hot heads who cost their team the series.

So he's a liability, and also a hot head for trying to prevent an empty net goal.

 

[Sky04]

So you don't have any. Got it.


So he's a liability, and also a hot head for trying to prevent an empty net goal.

Did he prevent it or no? Did he get himself suspended for failing to do so also? Yep.

Liability, you can see why he didn't make it, well without blinders you can. Not good enough offensively not good enough defensively while being an idiot to boot

 

[Xspyrit]

Did he prevent it or no? Did he get himself suspended for failing to do so also? Yep.

Liability, you can see why he didn't make it, well without blinders you can. Not good enough offensively not good enough defensively while being an idiot to boot

I don't think he understands what "liability" means...

 

[cneely]

Did he prevent it or no? Did he get himself suspended for failing to do so also? Yep.

Liability, you can see why he didn't make it, well without blinders you can. Not good enough offensively not good enough defensively while being an idiot to boot

Give me some evidence that he's a liability.

I don't think he understands what "liability" means...

I don't think you understand that opinion /= fact.

 

[Xspyrit]

Give me some evidence that he's a liability.

Scheifele has had some of the worst defensive metrics among any NHL forward for years and years. Even Tavares improved that over time, Scheifele doesn't

I don't think you understand that opinion /= fact.

It's very simple. The poster said "They probably saw Scheifele in the playoffs and said no thanks he's a liability."

And you replied : "He has 38 points (21 goals) in 42 playoff games"

This proves that you are not following what is going on.

 

[cneely]

Scheifele has had some of the worst defensive metrics among any NHL forward for years and years. Even Tavares improved that over time, Scheifele doesn't



You're totally off-topic and I would have no idea how to explain it to you, please forget about it lol

Which metrics. Bring some evidence.

 

[cneely]

Scheifele has had some of the worst defensive metrics among any NHL forward for years and years. Even Tavares improved that over time, Scheifele doesn't



It's very simple. The poster said "They probably saw Scheifele in the playoffs and said no thanks he's a liability."

And you replied : "He has 38 points (21 goals) in 42 playoff games"

This proves that you are not following what is going on.

Liability - "a person whose presence or behavior is likely to cause embarrassment or put one at a disadvantage."

Does having someone on the ice who scores at a significant pace (likely more than they give up with him on the ice) put you at a disadvantage?

 

[Xspyrit]

Which metrics. Bring some evidence.

I am not going to waste time on this (and I don't even really care, it's not even concerning my team) so going to post data that is available publicly

See the "EV defence"? And the red line on the bottom right? 1% or 0% means among the worst percentile of NHL forwards.

Scheifele would not come without concerns, either. There have been questions about his effort, and he straight-up does not play defense (check out his player card below). His offensive production may make up for his defensive shortcomings, but the Bruins have not exactly been welcoming to players who don’t buy in defensively. While it’s possible they loosen up the reins a little next season as they search for more offense, replacing Bergeron (the greatest defensive center in NHL history) with Scheifele (legitimately one of the worst defensive centers in the league) would be a dizzying twist.

 

[cneely]

I am not going to waste time on this (and I don't even really care, it's not even concerning my team) so going to post data that is available publicly

See the "EV defence"? And the red line on the bottom right? 1% or 0% means among the worst percentile of NHL forwards.

View attachment 964790

Scheifele would not come without concerns, either. There have been questions about his effort, and he straight-up does not play defense (check out his player card below). His offensive production may make up for his defensive shortcomings, but the Bruins have not exactly been welcoming to players who don’t buy in defensively. While it’s possible they loosen up the reins a little next season as they search for more offense, replacing Bergeron (the greatest defensive center in NHL history) with Scheifele (legitimately one of the worst defensive centers in the league) would be a dizzying twist.

And yet he's still at 92% WAR according to Jfresh. That means he still contributes far more than he costs. ie. he doesn't put the team at a disadvantage, ie. not a liability.

 

[Sky04]

And yet he's still at 92% WAR according to Jfresh. That means he still contributes far more than he costs. ie. he doesn't put the team at a disadvantage, ie. not a liability.

He's not getting prime offensive time on team Canada so yes he's going to be a liability with his shitastic defense. Thanks for coming.

 

[cneely]

He's not getting prime offensive time on team Canada so yes he's going to be a liability with his shitastic defense. Thanks for coming.

That's your opinion. It's a shitty one, but you own it.

 

[Xspyrit]

And yet he's still at 92% WAR according to Jfresh. That means he still contributes far more than he costs. ie. he doesn't put the team at a disadvantage, ie. not a liability.

He's an excellent offensive center, which is why he was one of my favorite players from the 2011 draft. Ottawa was drafting 6th OA that year, IIRC I wanted Couturier first and then Scheifele second.

If team Canada was starving for offense in that tournament, I would have been the first to say that Cirelli (favorite for the Selke) instead of him was a huge miss

Finally, yes he's a liability defensively, that's what these metrics tell us. Among 417 forwards with at least 1000 5v5 minutes during these 3 years, he had the 396th highest expected goals against ratio...

 

[Xspyrit]

Liability - "a person whose presence or behavior is likely to cause embarrassment or put one at a disadvantage."

lol didn't see that post until now... You understand that the definition has been adapted to hockey? In hockey, it means that, for example, a coach is not going to rely on that kind of player to protect a lead.

Does having someone on the ice who scores at a significant pace (likely more than they give up with him on the ice) put you at a disadvantage?

It depends, it means that this player is a liability if he doesn't produce. On Team Canada, that's probably not a risk they are willing to take, that's why they prefer having McDavid, Crosby and Point as their offensive centers.

That's your opinion. It's a shitty one, but you own it.

You're really confusing... Didn't you tell me this earlier?

"I don't think you understand that opinion /= fact."

I mean, you're guilty of it just now lol

 

[TS Quint]

He's an excellent offensive center, which is why he was one of my favorite players from the 2011 draft. Ottawa was drafting 6th OA that year, IIRC I wanted Couturier first and then Scheifele second.

If team Canada was starving for offense in that tournament, I would have been the first to say that Cirelli (favorite for the Selke) instead of him was a huge miss

Finally, yes he's a liability defensively, that's what these metrics tell us. Among 417 forwards with at least 1000 5v5 minutes during these 3 years, he had the 396th highest expected goals against ratio...

If Scheifele were to be on Team Canada he would probably be on the wing. So none of this is really an issue.

 

[heretik27]

Shit! I thought I clicked a Vilardi vs Hagel poll thread.

 

[Dust]

Hagel pretty easily right now. Vilardi is excellent though, and I think it'd more of a fair comparison if he had ever played more than 63 games in a season. If he can prove he can stay healthy an entire season I think this is a lot closer.

 

[Sky04]

That's your opinion. It's a shitty one, but you own it.

Pretty sure his shit defense is well referenced in this thread, sorry the facts hurt.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Hagel easily and it's no disrespect to Vilardi.

This.

Still grinds my gears the Habs had him at camp and never signed him. If the Habs hired me as their WHL scout we'd have Dustin Wolf, Logan Stankoven, and Brandon Hagel lmao

 

[cneely]

Pretty sure his shit defense is well referenced in this thread, sorry the facts hurt.

You're missing a piece, but most poorly informed opinions are.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Hagel AINEC.

Seriously?