Gabriel Vilardi or Brandon Hagel?

[cneely]

Not you again with that kind of baseless arguments... I'm pretty sure everyone will just give up, I know I am.

Hagel has the 16th best PPG in the NHL right now and is an excellent 2-way forward.

No one said he wasn't a good player. He's never hit a PPG in a season. That's a fact.

Hagel is a selke caliber forward, you can tell who isn't familiar with him as a player. He is one of the better wingers in the game.

He's decent, but you can't really honestly compare him to players like Stone and Marchand.

We looking at Corsi? What year is it?

What metrics would you like to use?

 

[Regal]

You should have looked for PPG production instead of even strength production.

Last time I checked, I noticed games were affected by the powerplay too.

The discussion was about the reason he made Team Canada. Hagel’s 5v5 production and defensive play is much more important for Canada because the PP is going to run through McDavid, MacKinnon, Point and Makar. With some Marner, Reinhart and Crosby mixed in. cneely was suggesting Hagel made the team due to Cooper, but whether he would have made it otherwise or not he’s still been one of Canada’s 12 best forwards this year

 

[Adam da bomb]

The discussion was about the reason he made Team Canada. Hagel’s 5v5 production and defensive play is much more important for Canada because the PP is going to run through McDavid, MacKinnon, Point and Makar. With some Marner, Reinhart and Crosby mixed in. cneely was suggesting Hagel made the team due to Cooper, but whether he would have made it otherwise or not he’s still been one of Canada’s 12 best forwards this year

Pp could have benefited from Villardi’s net presence. Not to go through, but just to knock in rebounds.

 

[Regal]

Pp could have benefited from Villardi’s net presence. Not to go through, but just to knock in rebounds.

It’s a fair point and net front is an important role. It’s why USA is bringing Kreider and why Hyman would have made sense for Canada even beyond the McDavid chemistry. But Reinhart is very good at that and I suspect he’ll be there on the first unit. Crosby will probably also spend some time there, not necessarily for tips and screens but for his strength at rebounds around the crease as well.

 

[Adam da bomb]

It’s a fair point and net front is an important role. It’s why USA is bringing Kreider and why Hyman would have made sense for Canada even beyond the McDavid chemistry. But Reinhart is very good at that and I suspect he’ll be there on the first unit. Crosby will probably also spend some time there, not necessarily for tips and screens but for his strength at rebounds around the crease as well.

You are right Hyman or Reinhart would probably even better at the role, it's my homerism to suggest Villardi for role. I wouldn't want Crosby to get bashed around in that area if I was team Canada as that is a bad look as he is thought of so highly in Canadian hockey.

 

[Xspyrit]

No one said he wasn't a good player. He's never hit a PPG in a season. That's a fact.

You're being too rigid

Hagel was a 6th round pick, he started playing regularly in the NHL at 22 y/o. Broke out at 24 y/o with 30 goals and 64 pts. Last season he had 75 pts in 82 games which was very close to PPG. And now he is over PPG at 26 y/o in only his 4th full NHL season...

 

[cneely]

You're being too rigid

Hagel was a 6th round pick, he started playing regularly in the NHL at 22 y/o. Broke out at 24 y/o with 30 goals and 64 pts. Last season he had 75 pts in 82 games which was very close to PPG. And now he is over PPG at 26 y/o in only his 4th full NHL season...

Facts aren't flexible. He's either scored a point a game or he hasn't. I expect at the end of the year it will be a mute point.

Vilardi is 25. Very high pick, but he's had some significant challenges with injury. For the first time in his career, he has played every one of his team's games and has 41 points in 47 games.

Despite the fact that Hagel was a later pick and started in the NHL a little later, as of their 24 / 25 year old season (Villardi's age now), Hagel has played 211 NHL games to Vilardi's 199.

They are very similar players.

 

[cneely]

The discussion was about the reason he made Team Canada. Hagel’s 5v5 production and defensive play is much more important for Canada because the PP is going to run through McDavid, MacKinnon, Point and Makar. With some Marner, Reinhart and Crosby mixed in. cneely was suggesting Hagel made the team due to Cooper, but whether he would have made it otherwise or not he’s still been one of Canada’s 12 best forwards this year

He might be this year. Scheifele has been doing it for 10 years.

FYI, Scheifele's career average season (770 in 844 games = 74.8 points per 82 games) is pretty darn close to Hagen's career high.

 

[bov]

He's decent, but you can't really honestly compare him to players like Stone and Marchand.

Yes, you absolutely can. Those players are on the back 9 at this point and Hagel is *more or less* on par with them in terms of immediate value. I'd give the edge in natural offensive ability to the two veterans (Marchand for sure) and obviously the experience, but they're not on a different tier anymore. Hagel continues to trend upwards and is exceeding a P/G without being on a line with Tampa's most gifted players. He is actually THAT good, whether people want to believe it or not.

 

[cneely]

Yes, you absolutely can. Those players are on the back 9 at this point and Hagel is *more or less* on par with them in terms of immediate value. I'd give the edge in natural offensive ability to the two veterans (Marchand for sure) and obviously the experience, but they're not on a different tier anymore. Hagel continues to trend upwards and is exceeding a P/G without being on a line with Tampa's most gifted players. He is actually THAT good, whether people want to believe it or not.

He has exceeded PPG for about 40 games. Others have been doing it for 400 games.

It's fair to say they're on the back 9, but they are still most definitely on a different tier.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...Vilardi is jinxed with Papier Mache Syndrome, which is a pity cuz he's great when he plays...

 

[bov]

He has exceeded PPG for about 40 games. Others have been doing it for 400 games.

It's fair to say they're on the back 9, but they are still most definitely on a different tier.

That's just not the case. 400 games is irrelevant since we're talking about current ability. Name value has basically no place in this conversation. I think highly of Stone and Marchand (pure hockey ability anyways), but Hagel began earning his way into the conversation last season and is now solidifying his place as one of the best two way wingers in hockey, alongside the two you mentioned.

 

[cneely]

He has exceeded PPG for about 40 games. Others have been doing it for 400 games

That's just not the case. 400 games is irrelevant since we're talking about current ability. Name value has basically no place in this conversation. I think highly of Stone and Marchand (pure hockey ability anyways), but Hagel began earning his way into the conversation last season and is now solidifying his place as one of the best two way wingers in hockey, alongside the two you mentioned.

There are a lot of really good 2 way wingers in the game. Hagel is good, but he's nothing special.

 

[Sky04]

He might be this year. Scheifele has been doing it for 10 years.

FYI, Scheifele's career average season (770 in 844 games = 74.8 points per 82 games) is pretty darn close to Hagen's career high.

Yeah he was better than Scheifele last year too, look at you all Pikachu faced because someone better over the most recent 1.5 years made it over someone else, I'm surprised we don't just line up Jamie Benn and Corey Perry too.

 

[Xspyrit]

Facts aren't flexible. He's either scored a point a game or he hasn't. I expect at the end of the year it will be a mute point.

Vilardi is 25. Very high pick, but he's had some significant challenges with injury. For the first time in his career, he has played every one of his team's games and has 41 points in 47 games.

Despite the fact that Hagel was a later pick and started in the NHL a little later, as of their 24 / 25 year old season (Villardi's age now), Hagel has played 211 NHL games to Vilardi's 199.

They are very similar players.

ok so same argument as MacKinnon never was a 100 pts player despite him having a 97 Pts in 74 GP season, a 99 Pts in 82 GP season and a 93 Pts in 69 GP season.

I am AT LEAST A FULL DECADE past these type of fallacies and frankly I don't have time for that so I'm going to move on but I had to note this for the benefit of others so they don't fall into the stupid trap.

And no they're not similar players, Hagel is a 2-way speedster, Vilardi is more of an industrious playmaker still improving defensively.