Waiver Draft
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- Jun 27, 2024
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GDT: G52: Wild @ Canadiens | 6PM
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Will be rolling my eyes throughout the game as they go on and on about MAF, as they have done, seemingly, ever since he has arrived. Having said that, will watch what i can (busy elsewhere tonight)because i love Montreal's uniforms.
Waiver Draft
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- Jun 27, 2024
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BagHead
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Did you know Marc-Andre Fleury is a future HHoFer, has won 3 Stanley Cups, and is the oldest player in the league? This is new information, right?
Also, he's a really funny guy, likes to prank a lot, and is one of the "good guys" in the game. He also really moves well for a 40 year old. I bet you haven't heard these things in each of the 17 games he's played in this year.
Missing their best pure defender, have a weak blueline to begin with. If the forecheck carries over from Toronto game, I like our chances.
- Dec 10, 2012
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From a marketing perspective I get why they do it for casual fans, but as a fan who actually understands most of what's going on in the league, the constant glazing that especially LaPanta and Walz do of Fleury is beyond nauseating.
My least favorite is when he does something good and they say something to the effect of "well look he's one of the 2 or 3 greatest goaltenders to ever play the game"...no he's not lol. He's a compiler. He's been aggressively average for most of his career, he's just happened to have a relatively long and healthy career compared to most goaltenders. There's merit in that, for sure, but he's definitely not and has never been one of the best ability-wise.
- Mar 19, 2023
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What's more important, how many pranks can he pull off?Wonder how many times he congratulates the goalpost tonight?
With a career save percentage of .9119, he ranks 47th all time in save percentage at this point. Ahead of the likes of Patrick Roy, Terry Sawchuk, and Ed Belfour. And comparable to Martin Brodeur. I think calling him average does him a disservice.
BagHead
Registered User
I agree he's well above average, and I don't think of him as purely a "compiler", but those goalies mostly all played in different eras and save% varies greatly between eras. A .900 goalie in the 80's was quite good, like top-5 good, but today would be considered below average for a starter (Saros is .900 this year at 27th overall). I wouldn't compare them based on save%.
Now, I have to say that I don't fully understand the stigma that comes with the term "compiler". I know what people mean it to say, that a player just got into a good situation and ended up with more than he was entitled to, but there is another side to it: nobody else was good enough to dislodge them from that position, meaning their skill-level was very good at least. So yeah, some luck, but also a lot of skill.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Well that's not true because Matt Murray won two of his three Cups in Pittsburgh.
It means that his only hall of fame metrics are the ones that come from playing for a long time. All the stats that the broadcast crew tries to pimp, most GP, most minutes played, total wins, etc. And yes, most of them come from being a starter for a long time, but he started in Pittsburgh when they didn't have any better options, until they had a better option, then he was pushed out. He was moved to Vegas because they didn't find anything better, until they found better and he was once again famously pushed out.
In terms of league wide rankings for goalie sv%, let's look at his finishes (for goalies with 40+ GP):
2005-06: 19th
2006-07: 21st
2007-08: DNQ, 35 GP
2008-09: 18th
2009-10: 27th
2010-11: 11th
2011-12: 21st
2012-13: 18th (lockout year, lowered GP threshold to 20)
2013-14: 17th
2014-15: 13th
2015-16: 9th
2016-17: DNQ, 38 GP (Matt Murray was 6th this year as the starter)
2017-18: 2nd (First year in Vegas, this was a legitimately great year for him, but he was also on a really good team)
2018-19: 15th
2019-20: 16th
2020-21: 3rd (Another shortened season, lowered the GP threshold to 20, won the Vezina this season)
2021-22: 21st (Chicago+Minnesota year)
2022-23: 14th (The year Gus was 2nd in the league sv% with 37GP)
2023-24: 30th (Gus was 26th)
Some more key points:
- The Cup he did start for in Pittsburgh (2008-09), among 13 goalies with 6 or more GP in the playoffs, he was 10th in sv%
- He was on the bench for the 2015-16 Cup run, he started 1 game that spring, played in 2, Matt Murray won them that Cup but Fleury somehow gets credit for it
- In the 2016-17 run, he played the first two rounds, was 7th/13 in sv% for the same 6+GP criteria, Murray had to come in and close it out, Murray was 1st/13
- 2017-18 he did finish 2nd/10 in the playoffs, Vegas made it to the Cup final but lost
- 2020-21 Vegas made the conference finals iirc, Fleury was 11th/13
- When you look at the entirety of his career, from 2007 to now, he's led the league in GP with 904, but his sv% among goalies with 450+ GP during that span is 16th/30, right around where Devan Dubnyk and Cam Talbot are
- Looking at % of game started with over .900 sv% during that time, he's 18th/30
This is what a compiler is. Out of 21 seasons, he's had 2 that are, compared to his peers, great seasons, including playoffs. The rest of the time he has been league average.
He's won 1 Vezina trophy in 21 years. In the time since his first season, Hellebuyck has won 2, Bobrovsky has won 2, Brodeur has won 2, Tim Thomas has won 2, and obviously a slew of others have won 1 as well.
He's just not anything special. He's "one of the good guys" as you said earlier, and he's played a long time, and because of those two things, people think he's one of the greatest goaltenders of this generation. I suppose if you're someone who heavily emphasizes longevity, then absolutely, but he's only rarely been among the best ability-wise. He has largely been, as I said, an average (starting) goaltender in this league.
And there are certainly arguments to be made that most of his accomplishments that people point to (the Cups, the Vezina) are primarily because of situations he was in, and not because he himself elevated those teams.
I like Flower and I have nothing but respect what he's accomplished in his career.
Even with 40 years he is still a very solid backup, he's played great for the wild this season so far.
Hockey's a teamsport and he was a part of one of the greatest era's the past 20 years. He was doing his job and that was enough to win titles with Crosby & Malkin in front of him. He's never been as dominant as Dominic Hasek but I'd say he was a good starter for most years of jos career. He earns the praise he gets. Respect the guy, he's not the best ever but he was good enough to put himself and his team in the position to win. And thats what matters in the end.
Even with 40 years he is still a very solid backup, he's played great for the wild this season so far.
Hockey's a teamsport and he was a part of one of the greatest era's the past 20 years. He was doing his job and that was enough to win titles with Crosby & Malkin in front of him. He's never been as dominant as Dominic Hasek but I'd say he was a good starter for most years of jos career. He earns the praise he gets. Respect the guy, he's not the best ever but he was good enough to put himself and his team in the position to win. And thats what matters in the end.
