Confirmed with Link: G Matt Murray is out indefinitely, will be put on LTIR prior to season starting.

[kb]

How did he do in the playoffs

Better than Vasilevsky, obviously

 

[Menzinger]

It was a bit surprising at how at how many folks seemed to outright dismiss the idea that Murray was anything but healthy....

 

[Nylanderthal]

Come on man, even you have admit that putting Murray a very poor decisions to acquire in the first place on season long LTIR and off the team is the absolute best outcome for the Leafs.

Most knowledgeable people knew it was a REAL bad idea of acquiring an off-injured and unreliable Murray in the first place, so having him serve out the 2nd year on Robidas Island is a better than expected outcome, then even having Murray play 1 game them miss a month, then play another few games and they out indefinitely again, constantly on and off IR all season and unavailable and unreliable.

View attachment 731672

Now Lou Lam's drafted and developed boy & potential goalie of the future Joseph Woll has a clear path to NHL duty, after Murray has been iced and out of the picture long-term.

Leafs get to move on from an ugly inherited mistake without like the last GM using 1st round draft pick capital on Marleau or his own UFA signing blunder Mrazek.

So he’s either on ltir or he’s a cup winning goalie. I don’t see the downside and I doubt Kyle did either and regardless of the GM this was initiated by the player.

All I said was that a player couldn't be put on LTIR unless they were actually hurt.

I said a team can't just "decide" to LTIR a player because it involves multiple medical professionals examining the player and determining that they are unable to play. In the case of LTIR in the off-season, it requires the team doctor to determine that the player will not be medically able to be at training camp and they need to be injured for at least the first ten games of the season. Beyond that, if they want to have him on LTIR deeper into the season, a doctor appointed by the league needs to verify and you also get into insurance and that requires yet another medical professional to agree with the findings.

At no point did I say it wasn't a possibility, you're just making that up. What I said wasn't possible was the Leafs simply deciding to do that without medical evidence of it and Matt Murray being on the same page.

If you want to take shots at me, it's helpful to have a clue what you're talking about.

quite the backpedaling and mixed with a decent serving of copium. Looks good on you

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I actually don't believe much that is said publicly.
We all know that's propaganda.

And who is to say Murray doesn't show up in November saying, "Hey I feel great. When can I start?"

Or maybe he talks to Stone's doctor and gets clearance after the Cap is lifted?

Was there any doubt the Leafs would be Cap compliant come start of season?

Did people actually think they wouldn't be?

He would literally be killing his career if he did that. No GM would sign him for anything more than 1M at most because they would never be able to trust him. This is a deal between Tree and Murray...plain and simply if they bought out Murray he would lose a lot of money and makes more sitting. He agreed to this deal because he is always banged up. Should he start to say he isn't anymore...then no GM would want him pulling a stunt like that on them.

 

[Racer88]

Better than Vasilevsky, obviously

Good point……..you win this one. Lol

 

[francis246]

He would literally be killing his career if he did that. No GM would sign him for anything more than 1M at most because they would never be able to trust him. This is a deal between Tree and Murray...plain and simply if they bought out Murray he would lose a lot of money and makes more sitting. He agreed to this deal because he is always banged up. Should he start to say he isn't anymore...then no GM would want him pulling a stunt like that on them.

Pretty sure that’s what ended both Lupul and Jared Cowans careers for good. They didn’t want to play along with Lou’s plan to LTIR them for 1 year. Basically forced to retire after

 

[htpwn]

I laughed when I heard this. Murray literally told the press that he could have played in the playoffs at the season's end press conference. It appears to be pure, 100% cap circumvention.

I do wonder if this will be good for Murray in the end, though. The $8M in salary is, of course, is a strong incentive to go along with the "injured" narrative but a full year off to recover may help him going forward. He was never going to reestablish himself as a starter as long as he kept missing half the season due to injuries.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's mind boggling that there are actually people trying to justify Murray being placed on LTIR as anything other than cap circumvention.

They point to his history of concussions as validation. As if the Leafs are concerned about whether a player's brain gets scrambled. Remember, this was the same team that played Kase fifty games.

Despite having worse history of concussions.

The Leafs are making a rather large bet on their young goaltenders. With Murray on LTIR for the year there is no safety net. Samsonov and Woll have to step up and plough.

The team can't afford to bring anyone else in now.

 

[Avilaj07]

People need to realize that this was mostly Murray's decision. Leafs went to him with either we're buying you out and you get a portion of your remaining salary, or you're going on the LTIR, not playing the season and get all your pay. If you're an athlete who hasn't been healthy for years, what option would you take? Of course it benefits the Leafs but let's not act that Murray didn't have a say in this choice.

 

[Leaf Fans]

It's mind boggling that there are actually people trying to justify Murray being placed on LTIR as anything other than cap circumvention.

They point to his history of concussions as validation. As if the Leafs are concerned about whether a player's brain gets scrambled. Remember, this was the same team that played Kase fifty games.

Despite having worse history of concussions.

The Leafs are making a rather large bet on their young goaltenders. With Murray on LTIR for the year there is no safety net. Samsonov and Woll have to step up and plough.

The team can't afford to bring anyone else in now.

It is mind boggling for you, but it isn't mind boggling at all for many others. We are aware that if a player is injured for a long term they can be put on reserve. That is what LTIR is for. In fact, it is an acronym for Long Term Injured Reserve.

 

[trellaine201]

Doesn’t a Dr etc need to sign off on LTIRs???? Media make it sound like the two parties need to agree sounding like it’s nothing lol. I don’t get this whole LTIR thing and insurance etc

 

[Rob Brown]

Doesn’t a Dr etc need to sign off on LTIRs???? Media make it sound like the two parties need to agree sounding like it’s nothing lol. I don’t get this whole LTIR thing and insurance etc

Yeah there is obviously a lot that goes into it behind the scenes beyond the Leafs just deciding to do it without the player being involved, despite what posters on this site want to believe. Same kind of Leafs fans here that wanted us to just throw Tavares on LTIR until the playoffs as if they could do it without him being hurt.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

It's mind boggling that there are actually people trying to justify Murray being placed on LTIR as anything other than cap circumvention.

They point to his history of concussions as validation. As if the Leafs are concerned about whether a player's brain gets scrambled. Remember, this was the same team that played Kase fifty games.

Despite having worse history of concussions.

The Leafs are making a rather large bet on their young goaltenders. With Murray on LTIR for the year there is no safety net. Samsonov and Woll have to step up and plough.

The team can't afford to bring anyone else in now.

Why can't both things be true at the same time?

Toronto needs the cap relief

And

Murray has a litany of injuries that would make Evel Knievel look bad.

I'll give you some history.

Toronto
9 playoff games head injury

26 games missed due to head injury, abductor, and ankle.

Last year in Ottawa

Missed 36 games with neck, illness, Covid-19, upper body

Last year playing for PIT

14 games missed due to concussion, upper body, lower body,

2nd last year in PIT

Missed 9 games due to concussion


Etc.

I could go on, but it would take hours to list it all.

 

[phillipmike]

It's mind boggling that there are actually people trying to justify Murray being placed on LTIR as anything other than cap circumvention.

They point to his history of concussions as validation. As if the Leafs are concerned about whether a player's brain gets scrambled. Remember, this was the same team that played Kase fifty games.

Despite having worse history of concussions.

The Leafs are making a rather large bet on their young goaltenders. With Murray on LTIR for the year there is no safety net. Samsonov and Woll have to step up and plough.

The team can't afford to bring anyone else in now.

Is it?

Mike Smith took the Oilers to the Eastern conference finals with his last game being on July 6, 2022. On July 13th it is reported Smith (undisclosed) is unlikely to play in 2022-23, Daniel Nugent-Bowman of The Athletic reports. Next year LTIR.

Shea Weber took Montreal to the cup final until July 7th. On July 14th, Elliotte reports his 2021-22 season is already over without it starting due to " lingering foot and ankle issues". On July 22nd, his GM, Marc Bergevin told reporters, "Even missing a practice for him wasn't an option. He has a lot of mileage...he won't be back next season, and probably won't be back for his career," Eric Engels of Sportsnet.ca reports. Next year it is deemed he cannot fulfill the next 5 years of his deal and is sent to LTIR.

Same can be said for Carey Price who played 5 games after that cup final then is deemed done. Took them to a cup final and a few months later he is deemed unfit to honor 5 years of his deal.

Weber, Price and Smith were mostly durable all their careers. Murray has been hurt all his career and played only 24 games last year. I find it more likely the doctors can predict Murray cant play a year than Weber and Price cant play once in 4-5 years or Smith at all after going to a WCF.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Doesn’t a Dr etc need to sign off on LTIRs???? Media make it sound like the two parties need to agree sounding like it’s nothing lol. I don’t get this whole LTIR thing and insurance etc

A team has to provide proof to the NHL.

 

[hullsy47]

Why can't both things be true at the same time?

Toronto needs the cap relief

And

Murray has a litany of injuries that would make Evel Knievel look bad.

I'll give you some history.

Toronto
9 playoff games head injury

26 games missed due to head injury, abductor, and ankle.

Last year in Ottawa

Missed 36 games with neck, illness, Covid-19, upper body

Last year playing for PIT

14 games missed due to concussion, upper body, lower body,

2nd last year in PIT

Missed 9 games due to concussion


Etc.

I could go on, but it would take hours to list it all.

Howie berger just crossed the line.now funeral directors are hockey insiders

 

[budzz]

Saw this on facebook and had a chuckle. If it hasn't been posted already....

 

[Menzinger]

Doesn’t a Dr etc need to sign off on LTIRs???? Media make it sound like the two parties need to agree sounding like it’s nothing lol. I don’t get this whole LTIR thing and insurance etc

Yes. The player has to undergo a formal medical screening by the team doctor (something that both the league and insurance companies can later examine).

 

[81Leafs50]

All I said was that a player couldn't be put on LTIR unless they were actually hurt.

I said a team can't just "decide" to LTIR a player because it involves multiple medical professionals examining the player and determining that they are unable to play. In the case of LTIR in the off-season, it requires the team doctor to determine that the player will not be medically able to be at training camp and they need to be injured for at least the first ten games of the season. Beyond that, if they want to have him on LTIR deeper into the season, a doctor appointed by the league needs to verify and you also get into insurance and that requires yet another medical professional to agree with the findings.

At no point did I say it wasn't a possibility, you're just making that up. What I said wasn't possible was the Leafs simply deciding to do that without medical evidence of it and Matt Murray being on the same page.

people make jokes, not understanding the situation or how these things work. The team and the player have to agree to this and then it gets filed with the league. There is a good chance that Murray initiated this to take time to get healthy to try and continue his NHL career and get another contract instead of being forced to retire.

 

[FerrisRox]

people make jokes, not understanding the situation or how these things work. The team and the player have to agree to this and then it gets filed with the league. There is a good chance that Murray initiated this to take time to get healthy to try and continue his NHL career and get another contract instead of being forced to retire.

Had he been bought out, he would be a free agent and nobody would be covering the cost of whatever rehabilitation he may need to undertake.

By accepting a move to the LTIR, Murray will have unlimited access to the Maple Leafs medical staff and facilities as well. I just hope, for his sake, that he isn't dealing with troubling concussion symptoms because that is really scary stuff.

I have a friend who was a professional football player who's career ended due to concussion issues and what he went through was absolutely nightmarish.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Mirtle: What we're hearing about the Maple Leafs cap situation and summer moves

How did Matt Murray end up on LTIR? How do the Maple Leafs get cap compliant before the season?

theathletic.com

Matt Murray’s agent, Octagon’s Robert Hooper, hasn’t responded to request for comment, so getting detailed perspective from the player’s side is a bit of a dead end here.

I did, however, talk to the league about whether they signed off on Murray going onto LTIR. The NHL doesn’t need to explicitly approve LTIR in the offseason, but the Leafs do have to submit proper medical documentation to justify the move.

“We do have the right to verify to the extent we deem it necessary and/or appropriate,” a league source said of the possibility of the NHL looking more closely at the Murray situation at some point.

That said, we’ve seen many players with less injury history than Murray end up on LTIR for a season or more. Murray’s list of ailments is extremely extensive the past two years, with as many as 10 different injuries, including head, neck, ankle and groin issues.

One of the other key factors in the Murray situation is the way his contract is structured. When he signed with the Senators in October of 2020, it was a four-year, $25 million contract.

The unusual wrinkle was that it was heavily backloaded, with 32 percent of the salary in the final year of the deal.

That’s significant for two reasons:

1. It’s unlikely that, had he remained in Ottawa, the Senators would want that big of a cash figure on LTIR all season. While there have been some complaints from Ottawa fans about not getting LTIR relief from the $1.56 million they retained on Murray’s deal when he was traded to Toronto in the summer of 2022, they avoided a much bigger headache by getting rid of him when they did.

2. Murray stood to lose $2.67 million of the $8 million remaining in salary if he was bought out. It’s highly unlikely he would be able to recoup that as a free agent, not with every team relatively settled in goal and tight against the cap. At best, because of his health, he was likely looking at a near-league minimum contract and a move to a situation where he would potentially be battling for a job in the NHL.

.............

Now, Murray can take a year, keep his full salary, heal and see where he’s at in time for next season and if he wants to attempt to play again. Unlike a lot of NHL players in this situation, Murray is still quite young, as he just turned 29 at the end of May. He’s started only 264 regular-season games in the NHL, too, so the mileage isn’t that heavy.

Murray will have made about $37 million over his career by next summer, nearly a quarter of which the Leafs will pay him to sit this coming season, and can evaluate his options with a cleaner bill of health.

For Toronto, it’s an obvious win, especially because they won’t have $2 million in dead cap space from a buyout in 2024-25. For Murray, it’s a lot of money at stake, and he can potentially better position himself for a comeback story in the fall of 2024.

Although with how little he has played the past two years, the odds are certainly going to be stacked against him.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Pretty sure that’s what ended both Lupul and Jared Cowans careers for good. They didn’t want to play along with Lou’s plan to LTIR them for 1 year. Basically forced to retire after

The worst part is that the doctors that deemed them too unhealthy to play and every European league in the world were in on it. The alternative would be believing that Lupul’s ego may have caused him to overestimate his game readiness which we both know is impossible.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The worst part is that the doctors that deemed them too unhealthy to play and every European league in the world were in on it. The alternative would be believing that Lupul’s ego may have caused him to overestimate his game readiness which we both know is impossible.

The funniest part is that Lupul even later admitted how broken down he was, and that he just struggled coming to terms with it.
And Robidas went pretty in detail about his injury history and what a mess his body was and how he struggled with just daily tasks by the time he finished.
And yet the myths persist.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The funniest part is that Lupul even later admitted how broken down he was, and that he just struggled coming to terms with it.
And Robidas went pretty in detail about his injury history and what a mess his body was and how he struggled with just daily tasks by the time he finished.
And yet the myths persist.

Same with the “but he was cleared to play in the playoffs” bit as if Bergeron wasn’t cleared to play with a punctured lung and Lidstrom wasn’t cleared to play with a ruptured testicle.

 

[Menzinger]

Same with the “but he was cleared to play in the playoffs” bit as if Bergeron wasn’t cleared to play with a punctured lung and Lidstrom wasn’t cleared to play with a ruptured testicle.

They also clearly never considered playing him. His status allowed him to do some light practice work which was probably appreciated by Murray as a courtesy