G Igor Shestyorkin (2014, 118th, NYR)

[Atas2000]

I never said that Shesty wasn't a very good prospect, no one ever actually reads what anyone writes on this board,

You do say a number of absurd things right in things right in this post though.

If Shesty was putting up those numbers for Traktor or Dynamo, I'd put more stock in it.

Why? Numbers are numbers. The superteams are superteams also because of goaltending or do you think they hire bum goalies on purpose, because the rest of the team is so good?

I think Shesty is one of about 15 guys around the world in various leagues outside the NHL that has a shot at being a full-time NHL starter

Holy understatement. Yes, they all "have a shot", but some just happen to be real top prospects. If they all were on the same level we'd see a flood of top notch goalies or mediocrities. Shestyorkin is one of the very few.

And by the way, for some perspective, Samsonov went from being a .935 goalie in the KHL to being an .889 goalie for the AHL's Hershey Bears so I really don't believe at all, that from a predictive standpoint, the KHL tells anyone much of anything about how a goalie is going to perform in the NHL, or even in North America for that matter.

Pkease spare us that at least at this point in time.

Those are Hart's current numbers.

2018-19	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	18	2.48	.924	|
	Lehigh Valley Phantoms	AHL	18	3.05	.902	|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playing your game the AHL is a better league and the NHL is no indication a goaltender would survive the AHL. Vasilevskiy went through the same stats "scrutiny". So what? If anything AHL numbers aren't an indication for anything. Not for how good the prospect is nor for adapting well to the north american game(which(adapting) is overrated anyway). Put Samsonov on the Caps and will easily put up Hart's numbers in Philadelphia. Why? Because he is actually good. Call it eye-test, experience, whatever. That is what people here are telling you from actually watching a goalie play.

I will give you Bobrovsky, he's been a stud his whole career

He wasn't by the numbers. He was by the eye-test, just like Shestyorkin. What you oversee is exactly the fact that Bob hasn't played in the AHL to put up those "bad" numbers like everybody else there.

but he is probably the best Russian Goaltender ever who is not named Tretiak.

W.H.A.T??? I get it you aren't that familiar with russian goaltenders, especially those from the past, but this was hilarious nonetheless. For all the Bob fandom, you are missing it by a mile. There is absolutely no indication Shestyorkin would be in a different league than Bobrovskiy, whose Vezina's are to be respected, but no, he isn't a phenom in russian goaltending history and not nearly in Tretiak's own league. I don't know if Shestyorkin is going to win a Vezina someday, but it would not surprise me a bit if he has success similar to Bob's when their careers are in the books, because talent wise he has the tools and he is no teen. He is an established goaltender by now.

Again, I'm a Ranger fan, so I hope he becomes the next franchise goaltender, i just don't believe his KHL success has much to say about it.

If Mikko effing Koskinen can put it together on the Oilers I am confident Shestyorkin will do just fine.

 

[Captain Clutch]

You do say a number of absurd things right in things right in this post though.



Why? Numbers are numbers. The superteams are superteams also because of goaltending or do you think they hire bum goalies on purpose, because the rest of the team is so good?

No, they are Superteams because they have payrolls that allow them to corner the market on the best players. Magnus Hellberg has a nearly identical save % to Shesty, so the obvious variable is the quality of the skaters not the goaltenders

Holy understatement. Yes, they all "have a shot", but some just happen to be real top prospects. If they all were on the same level we'd see a flood of top notch goalies or mediocrities. Shestyorkin is one of the very few.

This is pure opinion, there is literally no data to back up a contention that Shesty is superior to any of the other G prospects I listed, other than your personal eye test, which is worth basically zippo. I could add another 10 prospects as well, who all have as predictable an upside as Shesty does. That's why these guys are rarely drafted until the 3rd round and beyond because wise GMs know how unpredictable their development is.

Pkease spare us that at least at this point in time.

Those are Hart's current numbers.

2018-19	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	18	2.48	.924	|
	Lehigh Valley Phantoms	AHL	18	3.05	.902	|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playing your game the AHL is a better league and the NHL is no indication a goaltender would survive the AHL. Vasilevskiy went through the same stats "scrutiny". So what? If anything AHL numbers aren't an indication for anything. Not for how good the prospect is nor for adapting well to the north american game(which(adapting) is overrated anyway). Put Samsonov on the Caps and will easily put up Hart's numbers in Philadelphia. Why? Because he is actually good. Call it eye-test, experience, whatever. That is what people here are telling you from actually watching a goalie play.

Nonsense, you are not a professional scout, nor is the other poster Buchnevich, though it seems likely you are both Russian or at least Russian hockey fans, look at your own biases, that will explain a lot of your point of view. Nevertheless, nothing you contend in this statement makes it so. Using a single example (not statistically relevant) employing a tiny sample size (18 games, also not statistically relevant) doesn't come to close to explaining what you want it to explain. You should really learn a little something about statistics before attempting to use them to make your point.

He wasn't by the numbers. He was by the eye-test, just like Shestyorkin. What you oversee is exactly the fact that Bob hasn't played in the AHL to put up those "bad" numbers like everybody else there.

Bobrovsky is the single most successful Russian born goaltender who ever played in the NHL, period, its not even close. Nabokov & Khabibulin are the next two most successful and they are not very close to Bob's career .919, so in fact he is by the numbers the best ever

W.H.A.T??? I get it you aren't that familiar with russian goaltenders, especially those from the past, but this was hilarious nonetheless. For all the Bob fandom, you are missing it by a mile. There is absolutely no indication Shestyorkin would be in a different league than Bobrovskiy, whose Vezina's are to be respected, but no, he isn't a phenom in russian goaltending history and not nearly in Tretiak's own league. I don't know if Shestyorkin is going to win a Vezina someday, but it would not surprise me a bit if he has success similar to Bob's when their careers are in the books, because talent wise he has the tools and he is no teen. He is an established goaltender by now.

So this is just ignorant, he is in fact the best Russian goaltender, the numbers don't lie, that ever played in the NHL and the 2nd best of all-time after Tretiak, if he isn't then who am I missing? The answer is no one.

If Mikko effing Koskinen can put it together on the Oilers I am confident Shestyorkin will do just fine.

Setting aside how dumb the front office of the Oilers is, Koskinen's NHL sample size is far too small to say he will be successful in the NHL, despite his shiny new contract.

 

[Captain Clutch]

You do say a number of absurd things right in things right in this post though.

Why? Numbers are numbers. The superteams are superteams also because of goaltending or do you think they hire bum goalies on purpose, because the rest of the team is so good?

No, they are Superteams because they have payrolls that allow them to corner the market on the best players. Magnus Hellberg has a nearly identical save % to Shesty, so the obvious variable is the quality of the skaters not the goaltenders

Holy understatement. Yes, they all "have a shot", but some just happen to be real top prospects. If they all were on the same level we'd see a flood of top notch goalies or mediocrities. Shestyorkin is one of the very few.

This is pure opinion, there is literally no data to back up a contention that Shesty is superior to any of the other G prospects I listed, other than your personal eye test, which is worth basically zippo. I could add another 10 prospects as well, who all have as predictable an upside as Shesty does. That's why these guys are rarely drafted until the 3rd round and beyond because wise GMs know how unpredictable their development is.

Pkease spare us that at least at this point in time.

Those are Hart's current numbers.

2018-19	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	18	2.48	.924	|
	Lehigh Valley Phantoms	AHL	18	3.05	.902	|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playing your game the AHL is a better league and the NHL is no indication a goaltender would survive the AHL. Vasilevskiy went through the same stats "scrutiny". So what? If anything AHL numbers aren't an indication for anything. Not for how good the prospect is nor for adapting well to the north american game(which(adapting) is overrated anyway). Put Samsonov on the Caps and will easily put up Hart's numbers in Philadelphia. Why? Because he is actually good. Call it eye-test, experience, whatever. That is what people here are telling you from actually watching a goalie play.

Nonsense, you are not a professional scout, nor is the other poster Buchnevich, though it seems likely you are both Russian or at least Russian hockey fans, look at your own biases, that will explain a lot of your point of view. Nevertheless, nothing you contend in this statement makes it so. Using a single example (not statistically relevant) employing a tiny sample size (18 games, also not statistically relevant) doesn't come to close to explaining what you want it to explain. You should really learn a little something about statistics before attempting to use them to make your point.

He wasn't by the numbers. He was by the eye-test, just like Shestyorkin. What you oversee is exactly the fact that Bob hasn't played in the AHL to put up those "bad" numbers like everybody else there.

Bobrovsky is the single most successful Russian born goaltender who ever played in the NHL, period, its not even close. Nabokov & Khabibulin are the next two most successful and they are not very close to Bob's career .919, so in fact he is by the numbers the best ever

W.H.A.T??? I get it you aren't that familiar with russian goaltenders, especially those from the past, but this was hilarious nonetheless. For all the Bob fandom, you are missing it by a mile. There is absolutely no indication Shestyorkin would be in a different league than Bobrovskiy, whose Vezina's are to be respected, but no, he isn't a phenom in russian goaltending history and not nearly in Tretiak's own league. I don't know if Shestyorkin is going to win a Vezina someday, but it would not surprise me a bit if he has success similar to Bob's when their careers are in the books, because talent wise he has the tools and he is no teen. He is an established goaltender by now.

So this is just ignorant, he is in fact the best Russian goaltender, the numbers don't lie, that ever played in the NHL and the 2nd best of all-time after Tretiak, if he isn't then who am I missing? The answer is no one.

If Mikko effing Koskinen can put it together on the Oilers I am confident Shestyorkin will do just fine.

Setting aside how dumb the front office of the Oilers is, Koskinen's NHL sample size is far too small to say he will be successful in the NHL, despite his shiny new contract. That is why everyone thought it was such a terrible contract (which it is) because instead of trusting a larger sample size, they went with their eye test and gut instinct, which isn't likely to turn out very well for them (the Oilers).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hellberg's SV% is .09 lower than Shestyorkin's. Their SV%'s are not nearly identical. The same misinformation was posted when Shestyorkin competed against Koskinen. .07 better than him over their two seasons on the same team. I don't know if there's data to support this, but I suspect in most leagues, a 9 point split between starter/good back up isn't unusual.

Shestyorkin is ranked 1st at the Athletic, 2nd at TSN (although the writer had him first when doing a different ranking about a month prior) and third in an ESPN Ranking from the beginning of the season. I can't find any other publications with credibility that rank prospects. Everyone regards him as elite, except for you.

Also, you seem incredibly salty. I have no bias for/against Russians. I think I've been accused of having every different type of bias for/against players of different nationalities on this website. Its often the people with the bias who accuse others of this. I don't even understand your point here. You claim to be a fan of the team this prospect plays for, but here you are to add a very uninformed opinion of why he's actually not good, and he can only be good once you watch him play games in your league of choice.

 

[Captain Clutch]

Hellberg's SV% is .09 lower than Shestyorkin's. Their SV%'s are not nearly identical. The same misinformation was posted when Shestyorkin competed against Koskinen. .07 better than him over their two seasons on the same team. I don't know if there's data to support this, but I suspect in most leagues, a 9 point split between starter/good back up isn't unusual.

Over a 1000 shots, it's a total of 9 goals, so no it's not significant. The only significant part of either of their save% stats is that they are both absurdly high. The stat's say that they are nearly identically proficient

Shestyorkin is ranked 1st at the Athletic, 2nd at TSN (although the writer had him first when doing a different ranking about a month prior) and third in an ESPN Ranking from the beginning of the season. I can't find any other publications with credibility that rank prospects. Everyone regards him as elite, except for you.

Maybe they are making the same mistake you are, watching KHL inflated stats to make value judgements about future performance. Again, I never said that he wasn't a very good prospect, I just said the stats from the KHL don't translate very well in terms of his outlook and there were a bunch of other guys who are likely just as good prospects

Also, you seem incredibly salty. I have no bias for/against Russians. I think I've been accused of having every different type of bias for/against players of different nationalities on this website. Its often the people with the bias who accuse others of this. I don't even understand your point here. You claim to be a fan of the team this prospect plays for, but here you are to add a very uninformed opinion of why he's actually not good, and he can only be good once you watch him play games in your league of choice.

Salty?.......Please....you characterize my opinion as uninformed and call me salty? what a joke, typical passive aggressive comment on this site. I am a fan of the Rangers, I hope Shesty becomes all-world. I think he's one of about 15 or so prospects world-wide that have a chance at an NHL future as a starter. But for everyone who thinks a .949 in the KHL means more than a .900 in the AHL, you're dreaming. There is so much more that goes into it, it's funny because a guy like Tyler Parsons was considered one of the best prospects in the world 12 months ago, and all of those publications you mentioned dropped him after his rough stretch since then. He has a shot, that's about all you can say from what he's done so far.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Who are these 15 players and can you show where anyone ranked Parsons as high as Shestyorkin is being ranked?

 

[Miamipuck]

SKA has won two of the last 4 Gagarin Cups and they are in 2nd place by 1 game to CSKA, that's not a dominant team by your definition? Just how many KHL goaltenders have come over to North America and been NHL all-stars or even starters? its a pretty short list. I'd be more impressed if he were performing at something close to that level in the AHL. No knock on Shesty, I just don't think it translates very well to NHL success, I believe history is on my side. Sorry to rile you up but your rude and generally wrong....

I don't want to rile you up but you are wrong here....... He's not generally wrong, he's almost always wrong.

 

[Albatros]

So this is just ignorant, he is in fact the best Russian goaltender, the numbers don't lie, that ever played in the NHL and the 2nd best of all-time after Tretiak, if he isn't then who am I missing? The answer is no one.

Viktor Konovalenko.

 

[Atas2000]

You do say a number of absurd things right in things right in this post though.

Why? Numbers are numbers. The superteams are superteams also because of goaltending or do you think they hire bum goalies on purpose, because the rest of the team is so good?

No, they are Superteams because they have payrolls that allow them to corner the market on the best players. Magnus Hellberg has a nearly identical save % to Shesty, so the obvious variable is the quality of the skaters not the goaltenders

Holy understatement. Yes, they all "have a shot", but some just happen to be real top prospects. If they all were on the same level we'd see a flood of top notch goalies or mediocrities. Shestyorkin is one of the very few.

This is pure opinion, there is literally no data to back up a contention that Shesty is superior to any of the other G prospects I listed, other than your personal eye test, which is worth basically zippo. I could add another 10 prospects as well, who all have as predictable an upside as Shesty does. That's why these guys are rarely drafted until the 3rd round and beyond because wise GMs know how unpredictable their development is.

Pkease spare us that at least at this point in time.

Those are Hart's current numbers.

2018-19	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	18	2.48	.924	|
	Lehigh Valley Phantoms	AHL	18	3.05	.902	|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Playing your game the AHL is a better league and the NHL is no indication a goaltender would survive the AHL. Vasilevskiy went through the same stats "scrutiny". So what? If anything AHL numbers aren't an indication for anything. Not for how good the prospect is nor for adapting well to the north american game(which(adapting) is overrated anyway). Put Samsonov on the Caps and will easily put up Hart's numbers in Philadelphia. Why? Because he is actually good. Call it eye-test, experience, whatever. That is what people here are telling you from actually watching a goalie play.

Nonsense, you are not a professional scout, nor is the other poster Buchnevich, though it seems likely you are both Russian or at least Russian hockey fans, look at your own biases, that will explain a lot of your point of view. Nevertheless, nothing you contend in this statement makes it so. Using a single example (not statistically relevant) employing a tiny sample size (18 games, also not statistically relevant) doesn't come to close to explaining what you want it to explain. You should really learn a little something about statistics before attempting to use them to make your point.

He wasn't by the numbers. He was by the eye-test, just like Shestyorkin. What you oversee is exactly the fact that Bob hasn't played in the AHL to put up those "bad" numbers like everybody else there.

Bobrovsky is the single most successful Russian born goaltender who ever played in the NHL, period, its not even close. Nabokov & Khabibulin are the next two most successful and they are not very close to Bob's career .919, so in fact he is by the numbers the best ever

W.H.A.T??? I get it you aren't that familiar with russian goaltenders, especially those from the past, but this was hilarious nonetheless. For all the Bob fandom, you are missing it by a mile. There is absolutely no indication Shestyorkin would be in a different league than Bobrovskiy, whose Vezina's are to be respected, but no, he isn't a phenom in russian goaltending history and not nearly in Tretiak's own league. I don't know if Shestyorkin is going to win a Vezina someday, but it would not surprise me a bit if he has success similar to Bob's when their careers are in the books, because talent wise he has the tools and he is no teen. He is an established goaltender by now.

So this is just ignorant, he is in fact the best Russian goaltender, the numbers don't lie, that ever played in the NHL and the 2nd best of all-time after Tretiak, if he isn't then who am I missing? The answer is no one.

If Mikko effing Koskinen can put it together on the Oilers I am confident Shestyorkin will do just fine.

Setting aside how dumb the front office of the Oilers is, Koskinen's NHL sample size is far too small to say he will be successful in the NHL, despite his shiny new contract. That is why everyone thought it was such a terrible contract (which it is) because instead of trusting a larger sample size, they went with their eye test and gut instinct, which isn't likely to turn out very well for them (the Oilers).

I am not a professional scout, but I am right about prospects and players I follow most of the time. Because I follow them and don't look up numbers. Your attempts to elaborate about leagues and players you obviously have zero idea about based on generalizations is hilarious to say the least.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Viktor Konovalenko.

Myshkin wasn't bad as well

 

[Caser]

Sorry, are we really arguing if a goalie from the KHL can be successfull in the NHL?

I mean, Varlamov, Bobrovskiy, Vasilevskiy, Khudobin and Koskinen look pretty decent so far. Francouz and Samsonov look fine in the AHL so far, but since they're not given NHL chance yet the jury is still out on whether they'll succeed or not, still at least you can't say they failed at this point.

Maybe I'm forgetting someone, who did fail? Please remind me if I did forget.

 

[UnSandvich]

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

All this KHL glory is all well and good, and as a Ranger fan I hope he becomes King Igor but his success to date is a very poor indicator (basically it has no predictive value at all) of his chances of success in the NHL He plays on THE dominant team in the KHL and he's in truly awful company with Francouz in terms of all time Save% in the KHL. Are we talking about that Pavel Francouz? The NHL all-star goalie? NOT

I hope he's great, the history in the KHL means absolutely nothing

What is SKA is actually a top team because of Shestyorkin?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

SKA has in the last couple of days changed their usual goalie rotation. Shestyorkin's chances of getting the single season SV% record were eliminated by SKA because of this.

I suspect this has to do with Hellberg signing a contract, and Shestyorkin not doing so yet. It wouldn't be surprising if this extended into the playoffs. SKA isn't the best team in the KHL this season. Can they beat SKA if the best goalie in the league is sitting on the bench?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

25 save shutout against Lokomotiv. SKA was outshot today at home.

It looks like he'll only get one more game during the regular season. The usual goalie rotation was changed when Hellberg got two games after Shestyorkin's most recent game, which takes away a game from Shestyorkin, unless they wanted to give him the last three games of the season.

He could technically tie the single season SV% record with a 39 save shutout in his next game, but that would be from rounding his SV% up, and his actual SV% down to the exact decimals would be lower than the all-time single season leader. He would need a 44 save shutout to get the record. That seems unlikely, so most likely his best chance at the SV% record is SKA giving him the last two games of the season, and he totals 44 saves total without giving up a goal.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Shestyorkin:


23-4 record
.951 save % (1st in the KHL)
1.15 GAA (1st in the KHL)
9 Shutouts (3rd in KHL) (#1 and #2 who have 10 shutouts have played 11 and 18 more games than him)

Unreal how he has played.

 

[Lays]

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He actually stopped 28 shots. He's now at .9527. The single season record holder is at .9359. He's 16 saves short of the record. It would be a nice parting gift by SKA to give him the final game of the season to try to get the record.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

24-4 record
.953 save % (1st in KHL)
1.11 GAA (1st in KHL)
10 SO (1st in KHL)

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Why is that? Sorry i dont follow KHL much but this confuses me as to why team wouldnt start him

 

[Lays]

Traktor sucks offensively too :/

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I never said that Shesty wasn't a very good prospect, no one ever actually reads what anyone writes on this board, everyone is just looking to flame someone else with their overripe opinion. All I said was that all of Shesty's success in the KHL wasn't a very good indicator of how he will do in the NHL due to his playing for one of the KHL "superteams". If Shesty was putting up those numbers for Traktor or Dynamo, I'd put more stock in it. I think Shesty is one of about 15 guys around the world in various leagues outside the NHL that has a shot at being a full-time NHL starter but guys like Carter Hart, Calvin Petersen, Ilya Sorokin, Ilya Samsonov, Ville Husso, Thatcher Demko, Connor Ingram, Kaapo Kahkonen, UP Luukonen, Filip Gustavsson, and a few others all have pretty similar upsides. Everyone is just mesmorized by Shesty's video game numbers in the KHL.

And by the way, for some perspective, Samsonov went from being a .935 goalie in the KHL to being an .889 goalie for the AHL's Hershey Bears so I really don't believe at all, that from a predictive standpoint, the KHL tells anyone much of anything about how a goalie is going to perform in the NHL, or even in North America for that matter. I will give you Bobrovsky, he's been a stud his whole career but he is probably the best Russian Goaltender ever who is not named Tretiak. Again, I'm a Ranger fan, so I hope he becomes the next franchise goaltender, i just don't believe his KHL success has much to say about it.

This is a nicely-worded take... and tbh does capture a large proportion of the audience here in a neat package with a bow on top. That said, I think in this specific case there is another segment of the hockey-viewing population, a minority, not represented in this accurate generalization, who do also follow Shestyorkin with a more informed and critical eye, who nevertheless also tend to rate him as highly as the rest of the bandwagon does. It can be difficult to differentiate, though, and this perspective should be recognized.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Why is that? Sorry i dont follow KHL much but this confuses me as to why team wouldnt start him

Because they know he's not returning and KHL teams have been known to "punish" players for this. It was a slap in the face to not play him in a nothing game, plain as simple. He should have been the starting goalie the last 2 seasons but they never gave it to him since they knew he wasn't staying long term. It will be a good day when he walks away from that team soon.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Because they know he's not returning and KHL teams have been known to "punish" players for this. It was a slap in the face to not play him in a nothing game, plain as simple. He should have been the starting goalie the last 2 seasons but they never gave it to him since they knew he wasn't staying long term. It will be a good day when he walks away from that team soon.

Ya good call.. Crappy for him not getting the start but good for us cause hopefully that pisses him off and he signs with NYR asap so we can watch him full time