Future of the team is incredibly bleak

[Confucius]

Why are Carlo, Tanev, Laughton, and OEL here?

So they can take a step back?

Well we still have to ice a competitive team, we can’t lose every game 5-0. If Mitch leaves and JT stays we will have a huge amount of cap space next year.
Cap went up 7.5 million, JT takes a 4 million cut, Marner cost to keep may have been 14 million. So we end up with 25.5 million space even if we keep JT.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Well we still have to ice a competitive team, we can’t lose every game 5-0. If Mitch leaves and JT stays we will have a huge amount of cap space next year.
Cap went up 7.5 million, JT takes a 4 million cut, Marner cost to keep may have been 14 million. So we end up with 25.5 million space even if we keep JT.

And we have yo pay for Laughton and Carlo...plus no gurdt round picks, plus loss of Minten and Greybonkin.
We sold the farm at the deadline...a waste so far.

 

[Mess]

Leafs Core 4 forwards are far TOO soft and far TOO expensive.

That we can't change, at least not now or yet.

But its still no reason to give up, its still our team and you have to support it, because its all we got.

Let this years cards play out, but this summer we will have options to change course.

 

[Fogelhund]

Let this years cards play out, but this summer we will have options to change course.

Indeed, I wonder how sweeping those changes could be if we fail again in the playoffs? We should have a sticky thread; roster building, team building thread, off season trades thread. Is there management changes? How many of the core 4 go? What else gets changed?

 

[AvroArrow]

Absolutely NO WAY should the Leafs sign Ekblad. His knee is done and he’s going to cost a fortune. He’s so desperate that he’s resorting to PED’s to try and rehab it. Paying $9M+ for the next half decade to a guy with a gimp knee whose best days are long gone is a terrible idea.

9M ? No way he fetches that much lol, but valid points

 

[AvroArrow]

he drops to a 50 pt player in the playoffs for us , the teams done nothing with him and he'll be turning 35 in Sept so i have no idea what the obsession is with re-signing him

also he's offense is dependent on Willie or Mitch to create for him and he plays more like a winger than a C so we'll miss him as much as the Islanders did when he walked on them , which is to say he won't be missed !

We need a 2C, take a look at the market and tell me who's available. Who is a better option for 2C that we can pursue?

I'm not obsessed with keeping JT at all, but I think he's a fine 2C who wants to be here who we can sign under market price.

 

[mjd1001]

Leafs Core 4 forwards are far TOO soft and far TOO expensive.

As for the expensive part.....yes, and no at the same time.

I don't think the Leafs have any one player that has been drastically overpayed. I can justify if I try hard enough each contract on an individual basis.

The problem is they do NOT have ANY bargains. Leafs management is not guilty of overpaying any of those guys, but rather not finding a way to have one of them on a contract that is a relative bargain.

McKinnon for a long time was a top 5 player and was on a bargain deal when they won the cup. Brady Tkachuk at 9.3% of the cap (and falling) is a bargain. I would say Matthew Tkachuk at $9.5 is somewhat of a bargain for what he brings, especially in the playoffs. Sam Reinhart scored 57 goals last year and was paid under $7m for that season.

Having a bargain, even just ONE bargain where a guy is getting paid $2-3m less than his production, would help so much. That might be the difference between having a middle 6 forward or a 2nd pair D-man that you now pay $4m a year for where you could get a guy worth $6 or $7m.

 

[nuck]

Or it could just be a slump. Marner, Matthews and JT are all under a ppg for the last 5 starts and Knies has 2pt.s. Other than putting Rielly on the 3rd pair I don't see where this lineup is hopeless. Maybe the little bit of Marner drama has thrown them off. Still plenty of hockey left.

 

[Mess]

As for the expensive part.....yes, and no at the same time.

I don't think the Leafs have any one player that has been drastically overpayed. I can justify if I try hard enough each contract on an individual basis.

The Leafs currently have 4 of the top 12 highest AAV paid players in the game the other 31 teams combined have 8. There is NO one and NO way of providing any data statistical or even playoff team performance that can validate that. Spending > 1/2 you Salary on 4 forwards is something only the Leafs do and pay for it dearly in Cup competitiveness every year by being an easy out.

If you believe All of Leafs core 4 are among the top best players in game today and rightly deserve to be paid among the best then that is where you and I respectfully differ and in a very very large way.

Leafs gave Tavares an $11 mil contract 7 years ago, making him one of the highest paid players in the game.

As of last year still only 6 players had a bigger salary.

Tavares wasn't worth that contract back then and certainly he is not considered a TOP 10 player in the game today.

All 3 Leafs young player abused the Leafs, using that vast over signing to enrich themselves well beyond their positions in the NHL among their peers to deserve those contracts.

Fortunately for the Leafs both Tavares and Marner contracts end and it gives the Leafs a real chance to mercifully to walk away from this nonsense and auto correct to build a real team with greater depth and support.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Been hearing Seth Jones come up as a "should of" scenario. Just a reminder, he's off to an awful start with Florida:

MSN

 

[Folignos Helmet]

IF we go out in the first round again, i see one year of trying it with AM and Willie and a 'depth approach' replacing JT and Mitch with ~4-5 mid tier players (some UFA, some cap dumps).

if that fails then i think you are looking at seeing if AM would waive with 2 years left on his deal and try to get a haul for him, and 'retool on the fly' as they say.

we can also hang hope that the salary cap going up will help the Leafs in that more teams will be less likely to spend to the cap, so a little competitive advantage may creep back in.

 

[mjd1001]

The Leafs currently have 4 of the top 12 highest AAV paid players in the game the other 31 teams combined have 8. There is NO one and NO way of providing any data statistical or even playoff team performance that can validate that. Spending > 1/2 you Salary on 4 forwards is something only the Leafs do and pay for it dearly in Cup competitiveness every year by being an easy out.

If you believe All of Leafs core 4 are among the top best players in game today and rightly deserve to be paid among the best then that is where you and I respectfully differ and in a very very large way.

Leafs gave Tavares an $11 mil contract 7 years ago, making him one of the highest paid players in the game.

As of last year still only 6 players had a bigger salary.

View attachment 994120

Tavares wasn't worth that contract back then and certainly he is not considered a TOP 10 player in the game today.

All 3 Leafs young player abused the Leafs, using that vast over signing to enrich themselves well beyond their positions in the NHL among their peers to deserve those contracts.

Fortunately for the Leafs both Tavares and Marner contracts end and it gives the Leafs a real chance to mercifully to walk away from this nonsense and auto correct to build a real team with greater depth and support.

Whoa, settle down there, I know you are passionate about your point but take a step back.

I agree that they haven't left enough money to fill out the roster. I just think they don't have drastic overpayments. Overpayments? Sure, I can go with that, but none of those contracts, to me scream "what the heck were the leafs doing there" At time they were signed, the rest of the league was not in disbelief for how much they paid. My main point is...someone, at some time, could have been signed for a few million less.

One might be able to justify their contracts on an indvividual basis, but to do that you NEED to have some other contracts on your team that are bargains. I can, and would be willing to have a slight to moderate overpay on a star player to get him on my team...but only if you compensate for it with an underpay.

Yes, the Leafs have some slight-to-moderate overplays. That isn't the main issue. Them main issue is there are no under-pays to balance them out.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Reilly...the make more than $54 combined. This team would be a lot better and should have been able to get away with having them play for a combined $45m. That doesn't mean they all should be getting paid $1.4m less per year. You can get away with having ANY of them earning what they are, as long as ALL of them aren't earning what they are.

 

[AvroArrow]

Been hearing Seth Jones come up as a "should of" scenario. Just a reminder, he's off to an awful start with Florida:

MSN

Jones is complete trash. He's been living off his pre-draft hype for a decade, guy has done nothing at the NHL level to justify his contract. I put him in the same category as Darnell Nurse.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Been hearing Seth Jones come up as a "should of" scenario. Just a reminder, he's off to an awful start with Florida:

MSN

You'll be begging for Seth Jones when the Leafs sign Ekblad's corpse to 8M+ this offseason. It's coming just wait for it.

 

[Leafsfan74]

We need a 2C, take a look at the market and tell me who's available. Who is a better option for 2C that we can pursue?

I'm not obsessed with keeping JT at all, but I think he's a fine 2C who wants to be here who we can sign under market price.

Here is how I would approach this, working on the assumption this team doesn't make the Cup Final. "Sign the best players you can with value, who are available in the offseason, even if it doesn't mean filling a particular need".

I would prefer giving some time to Easton Cowan, maybe earlier than expected but let's see how he does in the big leagues.

I would prefer the Leafs hold back millions in Cap Space next year for Deadline Day purposes. They have a one time chance to shed and hold Cap Space for the first time in the Cap era if I am correct. It's time to do it. If they don't win this year, as long as they have this Defense, goaltending and Matthews/Nylander, Knies and McMann, they have enough up front in which to fill in positions with pick ups with solid players, they don't need more Nylander and Matthews, which is what Marner and JT fill.

If they aren't winning a Cup, I'd place a two year horizon of smart management of assets in which to try to have a legit chance to win the Cup. They should have considered this already this offseason but I guess Brad doesn't read the posters on here. At least he purchased term.

No team overpays more for assets or contracts than the Leafs, every team in the NHL knows this. The GM should know this as well.

 

[Donnie740]

I would prefer the Leafs hold back millions in Cap Space next year for Deadline Day purposes. They have a one time chance to shed and hold Cap Space for the first time in the Cap era if I am correct. It's time to do it.

This is one of the absolute worst ideas ever.

Why would you want to give up draft picks and prospects to bring in overpaid mediocre hacks at the deadline? Just overpay for them on July 1 and at least it won’t cost picks and prospects.

Let’s be honest - - how many impact players are really available at the trade deadline?

 

[DuncanMacpherson]

This is one of the absolute worst ideas ever.

Why would you want to give up draft picks and prospects to bring in overpaid mediocre hacks at the deadline? Just overpay for them on July 1 and at least it won’t cost picks and prospects.

Let’s be honest - - how many impact players are really available at the trade deadline?

I’d rather save some cap space to take on bad expiring contracts to recoup some picks.

 

[robertmac43]

Dark vibes around these parts right now, man oh man.

 

[Leafsfan74]

This is one of the absolute worst ideas ever.

Why would you want to give up draft picks and prospects to bring in overpaid mediocre hacks at the deadline? Just overpay for them on July 1 and at least it won’t cost picks and prospects.

Let’s be honest - - how many impact players are really available at the trade deadline?

You mean worse than winning 1 round in 9 years?

It's simple, you pick up the handful of best players available relative to value. You keep cap space available for a better Deadline situation rather than being the team with locked in contracts.

There is very little trade currency left due to the constant trading of 1st and 2nd rounders, thus, the next best currency for a competitive team (not if they were sellers) is cap space.

Instead of being against the cap wall every damn year, it's time to leave breathing room, as any smart team will do. There will always be sellers, I don't think Leafs need to overpay every Deadline just because we need teams to buy cap space from us, among other unnecessary costs to the teams future.

 

[themilosh]

it's almost like good leaders need to be assholes at times

I'm not so sure Babs is considered a good leader? He coaches with an iron fist, and while this strategy worked for decades, the new crop of players simply dont respond well to that style. Think about it, most draftees come from families who can actually afford to send their kids to Rep hockey.. These guys have not had to toil in poverty (sparking a desire to work hard) instead they have glided along on youth teams that babied them - and if they didn't get the minutes (from said team) they request trades... Always an out.

 

[ULF_55]

Let Tavares and Marner walk. I love them both but time for a reset. If the remaining guys can't be competitive, they ain't the guys you want. Let it all bleed out, nothing's working now anyway.

That would be fine.

However, the latest I read for 2*$5mm for Tavares.

So rather than having $22mm from those two, they'd have $17mm.

So $27mm - (Tavares $5mm + Knies $6mm) = $16mm.
Robertson and Holmberg: $3mm

Now sign 2 forwards = $13mm.

 

[nuck]

You'll be begging for Seth Jones when the Leafs sign Ekblad's corpse to 8M+ this offseason. It's coming just wait for it.

Before the TDL maybe but I don't think they would add Ek to push Tanev or Carlo the 3rd pairing. They now need to take a hard look at Rielly because decent LD are not that hard to find and he is a pylon right now. Biggest single need of upgrade IMO.

 

[Donnie740]

There is very little trade currency left due to the constant trading of 1st and 2nd rounders, thus, the next best currency for a competitive team (not if they were sellers) is cap space.

You acknowledge the Leafs don’t have many draft picks or prospects available - - how do you possibly expect them to acquire anything of value at the trade deadline?

Having cap room on July 1 makes some sense but having cap space at the trade deadline is essentially worthless when you don’t have any picks or prospects to acquire premium players with big cap hits.

Do you suppose a team like Chicago would be happy to just give Seth Jones away for free to get rid of his bloated contract?

Or are you advocating that Toronto should use all that cap space at the deadline to take on unwanted salary dumps and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick for doing so?

Horrifically bad idea.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

That would be fine.

However, the latest I read for 2*$5mm for Tavares.

So rather than having $22mm from those two, they'd have $17mm.

So $27mm - (Tavares $5mm + Knies $6mm) = $16mm.
Robertson and Holmberg: $3mm

Now sign 2 forwards = $13mm.

View attachment 994248

I'd take Tavares at 2x5M. I thought the ask was 7M for a little more term. 2x5 is just fine. Again, love the guy.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Optimistic outlook - There's a lot of good players on the team

Pessimistic outlook - The most important ones have been here for almost a decade and there's a lot of evidence that the personnel and cap structure will fail in the playoffs with no sign of any change ever again as we continue to extend everyone. We keep emptying the cupboards and have nothing to show for it. The one playoff win resulted in yet another embarrassing series loss