Future of the HOH Top 100 list project

[TheDevilMadeMe]

As we all know, the last project stopped at 70. IIRC, FissionFire has since told us that the original files may have been lost to a hard drive failure.

I think most of us want to see the list completed. There are two possible ways to start:

1) Continue where we left off - everyone re-submits a list from 71-120 and we continue where we left off.

Benefits: Continuity and efficiency

There had been discussion about "locking" the top 100 list for 5 years or so after 2009 and working on lists by position in the meantime. This is closer to the original plan.

2) Start over. It's been several years already. Everyone submits a list from 1-120.

Benefits: Ability to take into account new information discovered about older players (like Nighbor) and active players who added quite a bit to their legacies (Lidstrom) could give us a more accurate list.

Feel free to use this thread for any other discussions about procedures for the project going forward.

Click to read more...

 

[BraveCanadian]

Huge undertaking but my vote would be start over to get a complete list as current as possible and then lock it for a while.

As you mentioned there are current players who have added to their legacy in the time since the list was being worked on before.

 

[plusandminus]

As we all know, the last project stopped at 70. IIRC, FissionFire has since told us that the original files may have been lost to a hard drive failure.

I think most of us want to see the list completed. There are two possible ways to start:

1) Continue where we left off - everyone re-submits a list from 71-120 and we continue where we left off.

Benefits: Continuity and efficiency

There had been discussion about "locking" the top 100 list for 5 years or so after 2009 and working on lists by position in the meantime. This is closer to the original plan.

2) Start over. It's been several years already. Everyone submits a list from 1-120.

Benefits: Ability to take into account new information discovered about older players (like Nighbor) and active players who added quite a bit to their legacies (Lidstrom) could give us a more accurate list.

Feel free to use this thread for any other discussions about procedures for the project going forward.

No!!! All of us don't know. For example, I don't know what you're talking about. So you, or someone else, are welcome to tell.
"Stopped at 70"?? "1-120"?? "Fissionfire"??

 

[BraveCanadian]

No!!! All of us don't know. For example, I don't know what you're talking about. So you, or someone else, are welcome to tell.
"Stopped at 70"?? "1-120"?? "Fissionfire"??

Look at the stickies.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

No!!! All of us don't know. For example, I don't know what you're talking about. So you, or someone else, are welcome to tell.
"Stopped at 70"?? "1-120"?? "Fissionfire"??

Stickied thread at the top of this board (currently the second one down). HOH Top 100 list (2009 update) has been a list of only 70 names for a long time.

 

[IggyFan12]

I would say start over. Many players have added to their legacies (Selanne, Lidstrom, Brodeur) and some new users have also not been included.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I would say start over. Many players have added to their legacies (Selanne, Lidstrom, Brodeur) and some new users have also not been included.

Agree with your first point, but your second point could go both ways.

To me, changing the pool of voters is not a good reason to start over. There were some very knowledgeable posters who worked on the old lists, who I don't see around much anymore. If we did start over, I would want to actively recruit a lot of the older posters to participate.

 

[plusandminus]

Stickied thread at the top of this board (currently the second one down). HOH Top 100 list (2009 update) has been a list of only 70 names for a long time.

I've seen it, and read parts of it (not all 100+ pages), and thought it has seemed interesting.
But I haven't understood much about the project(?).
I have searched a couple of times, to try to find more info about it. How it works, etc., but not been very successful.

 

[IggyFan12]

Agree with your first point, but your second point could go both ways.

To me, changing the pool of voters is not a good reason to start over. There were some very knowledgeable posters who worked on the old lists, who I don't see around much anymore. If we did start over, I would want to actively recruit a lot of the older posters to participate.

Very fair point. Its very hard not to get people who are biased one way or another (old time hockey vs. more modern times) as well as people who actually saw players like Bossy, Gretzky, Howe, Orr play in their primes. Many posters (my self included) don't think of Gretzky in an Oilers jersey because I never saw him play for Edmonton. My thinking is the more people voting the more this biased is fixed as many different view points are included.

 

[plusandminus]

As we all know, the last project stopped at 70. IIRC, FissionFire has since told us that the original files may have been lost to a hard drive failure.

I think most of us want to see the list completed. There are two possible ways to start:

1) Continue where we left off - everyone re-submits a list from 71-120 and we continue where we left off.

Benefits: Continuity and efficiency

There had been discussion about "locking" the top 100 list for 5 years or so after 2009 and working on lists by position in the meantime. This is closer to the original plan.

2) Start over. It's been several years already. Everyone submits a list from 1-120.

Benefits: Ability to take into account new information discovered about older players (like Nighbor) and active players who added quite a bit to their legacies (Lidstrom) could give us a more accurate list.

Feel free to use this thread for any other discussions about procedures for the project going forward.

If you choose to start over, you won't delete what already exists, right?
If starting over, one would be able to eventually compare the two lists (I assume the project is about ranking players).

Regarding the knowledgable persons you mentioned, it sounds like a good idea to try to actively recruit them.

No matter, the World would anyway eventually know what these oldies thought, as the current list would still be around to read.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I would say start over and leave the 2009 list as a Top 71.

Not only have players added to their legacies, but new information has come about from some of the great studies done here and elsewhere. It seems unfair to use that information to judge one part of the list but not the other.

Definitely agree with getting those older posters back.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I would say start over and leave the 2009 list as a Top 71.

Not only have players added to their legacies, but new information has come about from some of the great studies done here and elsewhere. It seems unfair to use that information to judge one part of the list but not the other.

Agree alot with this gentleman, and I would definitely be part of the process if we start over.

 

[pappyline]

I voted for continue where we left off but I seem to be the only one. I don't see why we should throw out all the hard work & debate that went into the first 70.

I see the point about Lidstrom adding to his legacy though but I would think that he is probably the only guy in the first 70 that would move up much. A guy like Nighbor might get more support this time around but I doubt that he would move any higher than #71.

Maybe a more efficient & faster solution might be to revote the first 70 using the current list as the initial ranking and have everyone compile a 71 to 120 list.

 

[kmad]

As someone who wasn't involved with the last list, I'd vote for starting anew.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

If you continue at 71, why not expand it to top 150?

Just a thought

 

[Canadiens1958]

Guarantees

What guarantees are being offered that the project will be completed? Previous wasn't nor a similar one since.

Data was lost. What guarantees are offered that this will not happen again?

 

[BM67]

It seems that option to continue is halfway to a start over if you have to make a new list.

How many of the people involved in 2009 are going to be involved now? If more than a couple are out it is really a different project anyway.

I'd say go with the top 25 goalies/Europeans/Pre-NHL players or something just to change it up so we don't just have the same discussions again. Then go back for another top 100.

 

[EagleBelfour]

What guarantees are being offered that the project will be completed? Previous wasn't nor a similar one since.

Data was lost. What guarantees are offered that this will not happen again?

It's an Internet message board. Rarely do we ever receive any guarantee. However, I think as a community we are pretty good at completing project we start. The All-Time Draft was started and completed 13 time and we will have another go at it next year.

PS. Pappy, I have the impression that Frank Nighbor will be rank higher than #71 if we start the process over, and in my opinion deservedly so.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

It seems that option to continue is halfway to a start over if you have to make a new list.

How many of the people involved in 2009 are going to be involved now? If more than a couple are out it is really a different project anyway.

I'd say go with the top 25 goalies/Europeans/Pre-NHL players or something just to change it up so we don't just have the same discussions again. Then go back for another top 100.

Perhaps this should have been a third option for the poll - forget about the top 100 list for now and work on other lists first.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Best Alternative

Perhaps this should have been a third option for the poll - forget about the top 100 list for now and work on other lists first.

That would be the best alternative.

 

[EagleBelfour]

That would be the best alternative.

Only if it's totally different from the HOH project. A top-25 European or goaltenders list would only be the HOH list and adding half a dozen players afterwards.

 

[amnesiac]

I'm up for making a new list... I'll only be back in mid august, though, to take part.

Maybe we can do a pre and post expansion top 50 instead

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

As someone who wasn't involved with the last list, I'd vote for starting anew.

I'm with this fine sir.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Maybe we can do a pre and post expansion top 50 instead

The problem with this is what to do about someone like Stan Mikita, who has significant credentials both before and after expansion.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Viable

I'm up for making a new list... I'll only be back in mid august, though, to take part.

Maybe we can do a pre and post expansion top 50 instead

Viable provided there is a consensus about certain players. Stan Mikita for one. How would he be viewed pre or post expansion?