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Value of: Functional Toughness to the Oilers

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We don't need more grit or toughness, absolutely not something the Oilers are lacking in any meaningful way. The only mildly gritty player we lost off our roster from last year was Holloway. Desharnais wasn't really gritty, nor Foegele, obviously not McLeod, or Broberg, or Ceci. Not sure why you think this is something the Oilers need. It's not.

Oilers are going to be completely fine. They'll get a better pair for Nurse, hopefully in a couple months. We could use some speed on our bottom 6, especially good PKers. Now that's something we actually lost from last season to the current.
 
Volica said:
Imagine getting bullied by the lowly Flames and having to go out to get toughness
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I mean we have a big team. We added a bunch of huge guys in the last year and even our smaller guys aren't going to take shit.

Kadri, Backlund, pospisil down the center. Not big but they'll annoy the shit out of you. The lack of any response whatsoever from the Oilers was very apparent in the game
 
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DJJones said:
I mean we have a big team. We added a bunch of huge guys in the last year and even our smaller guys aren't going to take shit.

Kadri, Backlund, pospisil down the center. Not big but they'll annoy the shit out of you. The lack of any response whatsoever from the Oilers was very apparent in the game
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I don't disagree that the lack of response was very apparent. I just think it wasn't because there was no one who could have. Nurse and Bennett was a pretty close fight a few years back. There isn't anyone on the Flames roster right now who is really tougher than Bennett. Lomberg is probably the best fighter on our roster and he's 5'9" 180 ppunds
 
Double Dion said:
I don't disagree that the lack of response was very apparent. I just think it wasn't because there was no one who could have. Nurse and Bennett was a pretty close fight a few years back. There isn't anyone on the Flames roster right now who is really tougher than Bennett. Lomberg is probably the best fighter on our roster and he's 5'9" 180 ppunds
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Fights are meaningless though. They're rare and are mostly weak if they do happen. Like the Mantha Miller fight... big nothing.

It's the corner battles, its the forecheck, the scrums in front of the net. Even though the slash was nothing and I think Leon dove more than got hit. Finishing a few checks on McDavid. You can't let that shit happen. It's exhausting and demoralizing. Every goal we had a big guy in front of Skinner uncontested. If Hyman is in those spots I want Bahl to wreck him.

Obviously the Oilers are a more skilled team than us right now. Making it ugly can close the gap significantly. We got outclassed by Vancouver and Edmonton in the 1st periods. By the third we looked dominant.
 
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DJJones said:
Fights are meaningless though. They're rare and are mostly weak if they do happen. Like the Mantha Miller fight... big nothing.

It's the corner battles, its the forecheck, the scrums in front of the net. Even though the slash was nothing and I think Leon dove more than got hit. Finishing a few checks on McDavid. You can't let that shit happen. It's exhausting and demoralizing. Every goal we had a big guy in front of Skinner uncontested. If Hyman is in those spots I want Bahl to wreck him.

Obviously the Oilers are a more skilled team than us right now. Making it ugly can close the gap significantly. We got outclassed by Vancouver and Edmonton in the 1st periods. By the third we looked dominant.
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100%. The physical play was one way other than Nurse feeding Rasmus in the one scrum. As I see it we have Ekholm who is physical but not a very good fighter and too important for us to be fighting, Nurse who is just kinda there these days and old man Perry as physical guys that can fight a bit. RNH and Hyman rarely fight but Hyman can hit really hard when he sets his mind to it. Podkolzin hits but doesn't scare anyone.
macbowes said:
We don't need more grit or toughness, absolutely not something the Oilers are lacking in any meaningful way. The only mildly gritty player we lost off our roster from last year was Holloway. Desharnais wasn't really gritty, nor Foegele, obviously not McLeod, or Broberg, or Ceci. Not sure why you think this is something the Oilers need. It's not.

Oilers are going to be completely fine. They'll get a better pair for Nurse, hopefully in a couple months. We could use some speed on our bottom 6, especially good PKers. Now that's something we actually lost from last season to the current.
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Ever heard of this guy named Evander Kane? Desharnais played guys physically more with lumber than hits but he never made it easy on the opposing team in front of the net. This is a problem going back to last season after Kane got hurt and we lost Kostin.
Double Dion said:
I don't disagree that the lack of response was very apparent. I just think it wasn't because there was no one who could have. Nurse and Bennett was a pretty close fight a few years back. There isn't anyone on the Flames roster right now who is really tougher than Bennett. Lomberg is probably the best fighter on our roster and he's 5'9" 180 ppunds
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Nurse is 1 player and most of the time he fights when guys take liberties with him. A healthy Evander Kane would've made his presence known in this game. The problem is that our management knew that he'd be out and we have no one to fill his role as team badass.
 
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Bryanbryoil said:
Ever heard of this guy named Evander Kane? Desharnais played guys physically more with lumber than hits but he never made it easy on the opposing team in front of the net. This is a problem going back to last season after Kane got hurt and we lost Kostin.
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He's still on the team, he'll be back when he's healthy. You're telling me that the Oilers are in desperate need of toughness because we lost Desharnais? Give me a break. Toughness is absolutely NOT what this team is lacking. The team is literally above league average toughness. The only thing this team lacks that last years cup finals team had is speed in the bottom 6, and RD depth. That's it.
 
Functional toughness is the hardest thing to get in the NHL after the big 3 (#1 C, #1D, #1G). Lots of has beens who will throw the odd hit, but to get a player who can actually be a good NHLer while also consistently bringing physical intensity? Impossible to find for a 5th round pick.
 
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Rubi said:
Backlund averages 2 minutes a game in penalties. I don't think he's trying to be a tough guy... fake or otherwise. He's more likely to be found killing penalties than looking to start something. The Oilers would be so lucky to have Backlund as their 3rd line center.
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Most teams would.

He's a good player.
 
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Bryanbryoil said:
100%. The physical play was one way other than Nurse feeding Rasmus in the one scrum. As I see it we have Ekholm who is physical but not a very good fighter and too important for us to be fighting, Nurse who is just kinda there these days and old man Perry as physical guys that can fight a bit. RNH and Hyman rarely fight but Hyman can hit really hard when he sets his mind to it. Podkolzin hits but doesn't scare anyone.

Ever heard of this guy named Evander Kane? Desharnais played guys physically more with lumber than hits but he never made it easy on the opposing team in front of the net. This is a problem going back to last season after Kane got hurt and we lost Kostin.

Nurse is 1 player and most of the time he fights when guys take liberties with him. A healthy Evander Kane would've made his presence known in this game. The problem is that our management knew that he'd be out and we have no one to fill his role as team badass.
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I think you're overfocusing on the physicality and toughness. Flames played with that, but it's been part of their identity for a while. Heck, Lomberg threw fists with Kassian back in the day. But the issue is that the Oilers didn't seem to respond. Physicality is an easy thing to see and if your team is getting clobbered, you want to see the opposition pay the price to walk out with a win.

The issue is that you didn't see that last night. Last night would be a tepid game from the Oilers for a preseason game with another team, let alone a regular season BOA game where things getting to the point that the league told us to knock it up a few seasons ago.

I think the true issue isn't that you need to acquire tough guys, but tough guys would be a bonus. You need glue and good habit setting guys (Not "Glue gun" Gulutzan) and a culture shift from the me in team to the we in winners. IMO from what I saw the other night, Oilers group played like a bunch of guys playing for themselves. Flames were playing as a team and excited for each other's successes.

One of the guys that got in your face was Kirkland and for some reason, you had no answer for him. Oilers won't be tough guying us into submission any time soon. Oilers have to figure out what else they can do to keep teams quiet if their big guns are having a quiet night.

As a rival, I can thoroughly enjoy our BOA win. But I can also earnestly say, "WTF was that? Up your game for the next one so that fans on both sides have even more to get fired up about."
 
Figgy44 said:
I think you're overfocusing on the physicality and toughness. Flames played with that, but it's been part of their identity for a while. Heck, Lomberg threw fists with Kassian back in the day. But the issue is that the Oilers didn't seem to respond. Physicality is an easy thing to see and if your team is getting clobbered, you want to see the opposition pay the price to walk out with a win.

The issue is that you didn't see that last night. Last night would be a tepid game from the Oilers for a preseason game with another team, let alone a regular season BOA game where things getting to the point that the league told us to knock it up a few seasons ago.

I think the true issue isn't that you need to acquire tough guys, but tough guys would be a bonus. You need glue and good habit setting guys (Not "Glue gun" Gulutzan) and a culture shift from the me in team to the we in winners. IMO from what I saw the other night, Oilers group played like a bunch of guys playing for themselves. Flames were playing as a team and excited for each other's successes.

One of the guys that got in your face was Kirkland and for some reason, you had no answer for him. Oilers won't be tough guying us into submission any time soon. Oilers have to figure out what else they can do to keep teams quiet if their big guns are having a quiet night.

As a rival, I can thoroughly enjoy our BOA win. But I can also earnestly say, "WTF was that? Up your game for the next one so that fans on both sides have even more to get fired up about."
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The thing is that's 3 games this year and it was the same against Vancouver in the playoffs. IMO 2-3 guys that are willing and able to get blood on their sweaters is a major bonus when a team is as reliant on 4 or 5 players like we are. Let's say that Kirkland concussed Draisaitl. Then what? The more chances we give teams to tee off on our top guys the less likely that we'll be relatively healthy late in the season.
 
McShogun99 said:
How about some NHL caliber RD? You guys got any of those?
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Bryanbryoil said:
In a perfect world a RHD that can also kick some ass.
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OIP.z0m2mkVOjNA2hQQh90JKnQHaE8

Connor Murphy is your man!

Your GM previously traded for and extended him in Chicago

Lets get this done
 
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HockeyVirus said:
Functional toughness is the hardest thing to get in the NHL after the big 3 (#1 C, #1D, #1G). Lots of has beens who will throw the odd hit, but to get a player who can actually be a good NHLer while also consistently bringing physical intensity? Impossible to find for a 5th round pick.
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I'll settle for a passable NHL player that brings those things. I'm not expecting to get a Jeannot, Crouse, etc. with that kind of return.
 
Blackhawkswincup said:
He can do bolded
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Can he defend worth a crap anymore? Make a decent breakout pass? If the answer to these questions is yes, what would you like in return for him? Would Kulak be a starting point? What is his contract situation and would you be able to retain salary?
 
A guy like Scott Laughton would be exactly the thing the Oilers need in the line up. Good on the PK, feisty center who plays bigger than his size. He shoots left and ideally they'd have a right shot center coming in but whatever. Guys like that are gold in the playoffs. Not exactly a fast skater though, which is something Edmonton had lost recently and miss.

Ditto Garnet Hathaway. Gritty winger who can win battles along the boards and will fight for his teammates. Also not a fast skater. Bigger body than Laughton though.

To me Nicolas Deslauriers is another big body bottom six winger like Hathaway. I *think* he is a bit more of a fighter and a little less skilled, but Flyer fans can clear that up for me.

Honestly I think the Oilers need all three of these guys.
 
HabsAddict said:
The proverbial...more then you can imagine or want to pay.

He's literally publically declared that he is the Habs protector and if you hurt Hab players he will punish the offender or hurt your star.

He went out and proved it in a pre-season game. Sens player elbowed Dach, the guy didn't want to answer a challange so he went out and leveled the Sens star. (Stutzel)

And he's a pretty good 6th defenseman that is improving.

EVERYBODY on the Habs team loves what he does so it's impossible to trade him.

So you can see why it's going to cost a kingdom to get him.

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that's going to create some problems down the road if it becomes ongoing tit for tat of the good players getting hurt. At some point the league might actually have to give a crap about the value of human life if it's the human lives that bring TV ratings.
 
For the RHD scenario the Oilers need a guy who is probably better than a 3-4 playing as a 3-4. Maybe Radko Gudas from Anaheim. Older player but he can cover up for Nurse when goes roaming.
 
Bryanbryoil said:
Is he worth a damn? he's physical but can't fight for crap IIRC. At this point I'll take physical and a good PKer for our 2nd pairing RHD.
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Why in the blue hell do we need a fighter? Sorry, but fighting is hardly a thing anymore, and it doesn't affect the outcome of games. The Oilers need a few things, but toughness? Meh. What they really need is a trip to Oz, because they could sure use a little heart, courage and brains right about now.

TFHockey said:
For the RHD scenario the Oilers need a guy who is probably better than a 3-4 playing as a 3-4. Maybe Radko Gudas from Anaheim. Older player but he can cover up for Nurse when goes roaming.
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Gudas is exactly what we need, unfortunately the Ducks shouldn't be trading him, and he has previously said he has no interest in playing in Canada.
 
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ManofSteel55 said:
Why in the blue hell do we need a fighter? Sorry, but fighting is hardly a thing anymore, and it doesn't affect the outcome of games. The Oilers need a few things, but toughness? Meh. What they really need is a trip to Oz, because they could sure use a little heart, courage and brains right about now.


Gudas is exactly what we need, unfortunately the Ducks shouldn't be trading him, and he has previously said he has no interest in playing in Canada.
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So that if you don't get an opportunity to paste the other team's top player someone has to answer for the BS. Do you think that Connor and Leon enjoy getting rough rides every single game because there will be no response? They will get suspended or hurt at this rate.
 
I'm afraid the Oilers are falling back into fancy boys up front and centre with tough guy filler. A tough guy added to the bottom 6 isn't really addressing the problem of the team trying to out fancy other teams. McDavid and Drai are the roughest guys in the top 6.
 
Bryanbryoil said:
Ideally a 3rd or 4th line winger or 2 and maybe a solid #4/#5 RHD. The team is butter soft without Kane and with Brown in the AHL. Bonus points if your team can retain some cap.
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Depends on skill level ofc and what price Oilers are willing to pay.

Oilers should try to get someone like Givani Smith if its 4th liner you are looking for. I think he's pretty underrated.
 
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