Kings Vision: FS West Feature - Prospect Profile: Zykov

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Coaches always say positive things about prospects. Like Al Bundy said: That absolutely means NOTHING, nothing. Nice and well, but they wont reveal what they are truly thinking with players that age.

I dont have to back-up anything. I watch, observe and then the statssheet is doing the rest. Than I say how I look at it. I dont need to convince anyone.

As for personal attacks. I think everything was pretty civil. No idea where that came from. It seems we are getting pretty low standards around here.

If that is true then why did you infer that his coach thought that Zykov didn't play well or why did you use his coaches name for the WJC's in an attempt to support your position?

I don't know if there is a language barrier or what but it sure looked to me like you were saying that you were right in your thinking because of how his coach felt. I showed you how his coach felt about him by directly quoting two of his coaches during the WJC's. I have watched Zykov in person and spoken with his Q coach along with people in our own org and none of them seem to think that the kid is doing anything other than progressing along as expected and that he has made strides in every aspect of his game.

The fact that he was named player of the week more than once and that he has been seen as a solid prospect by many random publications seems to back all of what I have heard and said about him up to this point.

So you are right in not having to back anything up but then there is the rub isn't it. I did what I could to back up my position by providing information other than my own opinion as to how Zykov is developing and you inferred that his coach felt differently even though he clearly didn't or at least didn't say so. I mean I don't think that coaches are lying when they discuss their players especially prospects but that is me and I only base that on my years of working in the game and being around the minor leagues. In the end it too is only an opinion.

Oh well, good enough for some I guess.
 
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Seen Zykov play a few times, he is going too be a good one.

Skates well, Powerful. Above average Hockey IQ, good soft hands for his size.

Kid just needs to continue to work hard.
 
If that is true then why did you infer that his coach thought that Zykov didn't play well or why did you use his coaches name for the WJC's in an attempt to support your position?

I don't know if there is a language barrier or what but it sure looked to me like you were saying that you were right in your thinking because of how his coach felt. I showed you how his coach felt about him by directly quoting two of his coaches during the WJC's. I have watched Zykov in person and spoken with his Q coach along with people in our own org and none of them seem to think that the kid is doing anything other than progressing along as expected and that he has made strides in every aspect of his game.

The fact that he was named player of the week more than once and that he has been seen as a solid prospect by many random publications seems to back all of what I have heard and said about him up to this point.

So you are right in not having to back anything up but then there is the rub isn't it. I did what I could to back up my position by providing information other than my own opinion as to how Zykov is developing and you inferred that his coach felt differently even though he clearly didn't or at least didn't say so. I mean I don't think that coaches are lying when they discuss their players especially prospects but that is me and I only base that on my years of working in the game and being around the minor leagues. In the end it too is only an opinion.

Oh well, good enough for some I guess.
Ice-time shows how a coach really thinks about a player. Words wont hurt, ice time might.

That's why. Two different things.

I'm sorry but I just dont understand why you think these two things are related to each other. That has nothing to do with a language barrier.
 
Because Valentin Zykov was drafted out the CHL he has to play until he's 20 years old I believe. The female commentator mentioned that he's ticketed for Manchester for the 2-14-15 season.

Is there a difference in the rule because he's Russian born? I remember Loktionov played a year in the CHL and then played the following season in Manchester when he was still 19 years old.
 
Is there a difference in the rule because he's Russian born? I remember Loktionov played a year in the CHL and then played the following season in Manchester when he was still 19 years old.

It depends on the league they are drafted out of. If you are drafted out of Europe and then come over to play in junior, then you can hop out after one year. Otherwise, it is until you turn 20.
 
Ice-time shows how a coach really thinks about a player. Words wont hurt, ice time might.

That's why. Two different things.

I'm sorry but I just dont understand why you think these two things are related to each other. That has nothing to do with a language barrier.

Last time I will respond to you about Zykov but one coach in one tournament is what you are basing your entire opinion about Zykov on and even then it seems severely flawed.


Nikolai Skladnichenko
Eduard Gimatov
Georgi Busarov
Alexei Bereglazov

Each of these guys had less than or within 15 seconds more ice time than the CHL rookie of the year in 2013 Zykov. So does that mean that each of them are overhyped and were playing poorly enough that their ice time was limited by the RUS coaching staff? If so then Barbeshev's ATOI must mean that the Russian coaching staff hated him.

On top of that his ice time hasn't suffered at all this season in the Q so his current coaching staff sure doesn't seem to have any trouble with him either. That is if we are using that one variable stat to judge an entire players ability and potential.

That is what you are doing. Basing everything that Zykov was, is and could be on the fact that during his first WJC campaign (one where I think he had an average performance in) he along with 5 other players, each of whom were tagged to play a defencive role according to their coaches must equally be only average at best prospects. All because during this one tournament you believe that their coaches secretly thought that poorly about them regardless of what they actually said.

That's cool, I just disagree.

Time will tell once again where the prospect fleshes out.
 
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Time will tell once again where the prospect fleshes out.

Zykov can't play in the AHL next season, but is the QMHJL / Baie-Comeau good place to him? Do you - or somebody else - know, that will Drakkar be good team again or will they rebuild (season 2014-15)?
 
Zykov can't play in the AHL next season, but is the QMHJL / Baie-Comeau good place to him? Do you - or somebody else - know, that will Drakkar be good team again or will they rebuild (season 2014-15)?

With the way that junior goes, if BC decides to rebuild it is highly likely that Zykov will be dealt to a contending team for draft picks. Either way, next season expect him to be playing for a team that is expected to do something big at the season's end. BC will not let an asset like Zykov graduate into the Kings system for nothing unless they think they can win now. It's like that with every junior franchise--there are some that are factories, but most leagues see teams stack up every year. Not everybody can be a Kitchener or London who always seem to be stacked.
 
Stats aside, I'd like to know what folks who have watched him at least a few times have to say about his overall game. Because I do echo a little bit of Frolov's concern about him being a little bit of a simple grinder at this point, just not to the extent that I think he's done growing.
 
I think that is an interesting article:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/how-would-the-2013-nhl-draft-unfold-if-we-held-it-again-today/

How would the 2013 NHL draft unfold if we held it again today?

Second round

31. Valentin Zykov, LW (taken 37th by Los Angeles)

32. Chris Bigras, D (taken 32nd by Colorado)

33. Hudson Fasching, RW (taken 118th by Los Angeles)

...

Winnipeg, Los Angeles and Montreal did well in this exercise, selecting two players apiece in the second round or later who would be first-rounders or close to it today.
 
Stats aside, I'd like to know what folks who have watched him at least a few times have to say about his overall game. Because I do echo a little bit of Frolov's concern about him being a little bit of a simple grinder at this point, just not to the extent that I think he's done growing.

You know my opinion but I will state a few things about Zykov that I have noticed in his game so far this season and hope others will do the same. The first couple of games I saw him in this year he looked exactly like the player he was last year. Hard working tough in the corners and hangs onto the puck better than any of his opponents. Has a HUGE shot that he gets rid of quickly. That said he seemed out of position at times and definitely needed time to adjust to his new line mates.

I saw him twice during the season right about the mid point and he just looked like a better two way player. He was constantly being sent out against his opponents top players/line and was the best player on the ice. After that game I had a chance to talk with his head coach and asked him what he thought about how Z was playing. To paraphrase he said that Z's biggest problem is he is overly enthusiastic to the point of being a pain in the tail (he used a french phrase but same meaning). He constantly wants to assess his play after each practice and game.

They were working with him on letting his game come to him instead of always trying to seek it out.

I saw him in person again a couple of times now recently and I think he has progressed significantly since last year and as I posted in another thread he hasn't any problem scoring (to games with over 5 points within a week of each other) when he is paired with O creative line mates.

Put him on a line with lesser offencive talents and his O game drops off but that has to be expected to some point. Him having games where he puts up huge #s only further shows that he has all of the skill he needs but at this stage of his development still needs to work on being able to elevate the players on his line rather than expecting them to meet his level of play.

He tweaked his hip or so it has been said but not by the team officially a bit and it slowed him down for a couple of games but I haven't seen him in person since the alleged injury so I don't know how much it bothered him.

I can understand those of us who have never seen Zykov play in the Q especially in person having their concerns about the slight drop in his O production this year but when you factor in the changes in his line mates and that he is still a very young and developing player it becomes easier to see why his coaches and most of the CHL all still see him as a budding star caliber player. Futa said "He is as much of a slam dunk prospect as there is". He still looks that way to me. Unlike others I see Z as more of a 2nd line LW sniper in our system when he makes the NHL but like other prospects I have championed over the years I am only truly confident that he will make the NHL, what happens after that is a little bit more difficult to project just yet.
 
Stats aside, I'd like to know what folks who have watched him at least a few times have to say about his overall game. Because I do echo a little bit of Frolov's concern about him being a little bit of a simple grinder at this point, just not to the extent that I think he's done growing.

I like his forecheck. He works hard and plays with a competitive edge. He has seemingly brought a lot of his game to the boards, where he is built to succeed.

I'm not to impressed with him defensively. Not that he's lazy. Just not effective or seeming to understand where or how to move efficiently.
 
I like his forecheck. He works hard and plays with a competitive edge. He has seemingly brought a lot of his game to the boards, where he is built to succeed.

I'm not to impressed with him defensively. Not that he's lazy. Just not effective or seeming to understand where or how to move efficiently.

Well said and I think it is a fair thing to say regarding Zs D. He has come a long way from last season but he still has allot to learn. I forgot to mention that his footspeed has improved imo this season or at least his fast step has. Gets where he wants to go more quickly.
 
Well said and I think it is a fair thing to say regarding Zs D. He has come a long way from last season but he still has allot to learn. I forgot to mention that his footspeed has improved imo this season or at least his fast step has. Gets where he wants to go more quickly.

That's good to know! I can't agree or disagree since I didn't watch him last year. I don't have a frame of reference.
 
Last time I will respond to you about Zykov but one coach in one tournament is what you are basing your entire opinion about Zykov on and even then it seems severely flawed.


Nikolai Skladnichenko
Eduard Gimatov
Georgi Busarov
Alexei Bereglazov

Each of these guys had less than or within 15 seconds more ice time than the CHL rookie of the year in 2013 Zykov. So does that mean that each of them are overhyped and were playing poorly enough that their ice time was limited by the RUS coaching staff? If so then Barbeshev's ATOI must mean that the Russian coaching staff hated him.

On top of that his ice time hasn't suffered at all this season in the Q so his current coaching staff sure doesn't seem to have any trouble with him either. That is if we are using that one variable stat to judge an entire players ability and potential.

That is what you are doing. Basing everything that Zykov was, is and could be on the fact that during his first WJC campaign (one where I think he had an average performance in) he along with 5 other players, each of whom were tagged to play a defencive role according to their coaches must equally be only average at best prospects. All because during this one tournament you believe that their coaches secretly thought that poorly about them regardless of what they actually said.

That's cool, I just disagree.

Time will tell once again where the prospect fleshes out.
An opinion is not flawed just because you disagree. Stats are facts, ice-time are facts. I dont base my entire opinion on Zykov's coach. I have also seen him play. I dont see it, simple as that. At least not why his name is mentioned so often over here. He is just a prospect, a decent one, like so mannnnnnny others.

You act like I am alone in this, you even literally said this. It's this or a 'language barrier' or you put words in my mouth like when I have said he is a bum. It doesnt matter to you. That's why I also dont take you very seriously.

Makes me wonder if you are really open for different opinions, like you say. I think you are not. That doesnt mean you should agree, but all those things mentioned above, are a farce.
 
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An opinion is not flawed just because you disagree. Stats are facts, ice-time are facts. I dont base my entire opinion on Zykov's coach. I have also seen him play. I dont see it, simple as that. At least not why his name is mentioned so often over here. He is just a prospect, a decent one, like so mannnnnnny others.

You act like I am alone in this, you even literally said this. It's this or a 'language barrier' or you put words in my mouth like when I have said he is a bum. It doesnt matter to you. That's why I also dont take you very seriously.

Makes me wonder if you are really open for different opinions, like you say. I think you are not. That doesnt mean you should agree, but all those things mentioned above, are a farce.

Um, alright. What stats and facts have you presented? I am certain that I have missed them so it will be helpful if you could show me the posts where you have used them and what they might be. I haven't seen any statistical evidence to support your opinion in any of your responses which is where the confusion between us comes from but whatever you say is fine with me in the end. I simply really no longer care.

Thanks for sharing.
 
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Um, alright. What stats and facts have you presented? I am certain that I have missed them so it will be helpful if you could show me the posts where you have used them and what they might be. I haven't seen any statistical evidence to support your opinion in any of your responses which is where the confusion between us comes from but whatever you say is fine with me in the end. I simply really no longer care.

Thanks for sharing.

How about this? All stats are according to HockeyDB :

2012-2013: 67 games, 75 points = 1.12 ppg
2013-2014: 53 games, 63 points = 1.18 ppg

Points per game increases over the 2 years. This is good. His plus/minus has also gone from +29 to +32. This is a minor change, but at least it went up. What is down are his goals, he scored 17 less in 2013-2014 than in 2012-2013. From those who have seen him play, this might be due to two things: Increased coverage and increased defensive awareness. For those who watch the big club and obsess over the lack of scoring from the left wing, seeing him drop 42.5% of his goals from the year before is horrifying. That said, his assists are up by 12.5% in 14 less games. Baie-Comeau also won 3 more games this season than they did last year. He has improved production on a team that won 72.8% of its games this season, but his goal scoring declined considerably.

Using the statistical argument, then, one could argue that the big concern with Zykov is the decline in goal scoring, but that we should not worry about his overall offensive production. My take on this is that while I would like Zykov to score more goals, the thing that concerns me about a first line player is that he is regularly guaranteeing that his line gets a goal/game on average. If Kopitar ended the season with 0 goals and 82 assists, I'd want him to score more goals, but I would say that he has contributed offensively the way he needs to for the team to win. This is the qualitative aspect of the argument: Does it matter who scores the goals or not as long as the goals are scored? My argument is that it does not matter who pots the goal as long as the Kings score more than their opposition. Others think differently, but as I cheer for the Kings, I only want the team as a whole to have more goals each game than the opposition. Assists lead to goals. Zykov's overall production was up slightly, therefore, I do not worry too much about his offensive game. The bigger question is, is he contributing in all facets of the game in a more elevated way than what the normal offensive statistics do not reflect? That is for scouts who watch the game to decide, which is why I put additional stock in your reports, TG, over a simple reading of the stats. I have not watched the games, therefore, I cannot answer the questions about Zykov's overall game either way, but if we want to use statistics, I'm not buying what the doubters are selling. From what I want from players, for where Zykov is projected to play, he has done his part statistically. Now, can he do the rest?

Nobody makes it to LA anymore without a complete game. Just ask Tyler Toffoli, Linden Vey, and Tanner Pearson. The thing with Zykov and every other player who gets drafted now is that they have at least 3 if not 4 or 5 years of development before they have a realistic shot of making it to the regular NHL roster. Ask yourself, where is the next opening going to be in LA in an offensive role and is there any guarantee that our young players are going to be there over the next Carter or Gaborik? This is exactly what we wanted all through the 2000s, now that we're into the second decade of the 21st century, we have to change our mindsets. LA's hockey's future is no longer next season, it's 5 seasons from now and the competition is fierce. Zykov and every other prospect will change dramatically in that time as they change from big boys to young men, so use the stats to see if he is still doing a statistical baseline of what he needs to accomplish, but otherwise, I'd leave the stats out of this one for a more realistic discussion of what it means for an 18 year old draftee to transition into a Los Angeles King.

T2M
 
I want to know more about Prokhorkin.

That was a nice little segment.


Not to hijack thread, here is his teams stats, pretty good names on there, and poor Froloaf.

Player Name Birthdate Age Pos. GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
Nikolay Prokhorkin 1993-09-17 19 L 52 19 18 37 47
Alexander Radulov 1986-07-05 27 R 34 9 25 34 75
Igor Grigorenko 1983-04-09 30 L 54 13 14 27 60
Ilari Filppula 1981-11-05 31 F 51 8 16 24 16
Alexei Morozov 1977-02-16 36 R 38 13 10 23 30
Oleg Saprykin 1981-02-12 32 L 52 10 8 18 42
Sergei Shirokov To Omsk 1986-03-10 27 R 25 4 9 13 6
Nikita Zaitsev 1991-10-29 21 D 33 4 8 12 18
Ilya Zubov To Vladivostok 1987-02-14 26 C 25 3 9 12 18
Georgi Misharin 1985-05-11 28 D 54 3 9 12 26
Denis Denisov 1981-12-31 31 D 44 5 6 11 22
Yakov Rylov 1985-01-15 28 D 31 4 6 10 10
Alexander Frolov From Omsk 1982-06-19 31 L 29 6 3 9 6
Brandon Reid 1981-03-09 32 C 26 3 6 9 6
Maxim Goncharov To Omsk 1989-06-15 24 D 21 3 4 7 24
 
Man, I always forget Fro is younger than me and I can't believe he's out of the NHL already :( poor guy.

Thanks for all the extra input on Zykov. Sounds like this season is a minor-step-forward season and he could be poised for a big one next year.
 
How about this? All stats are according to HockeyDB :

2012-2013: 67 games, 75 points = 1.12 ppg
2013-2014: 53 games, 63 points = 1.18 ppg

Points per game increases over the 2 years. This is good. His plus/minus has also gone from +29 to +32. This is a minor change, but at least it went up. What is down are his goals, he scored 17 less in 2013-2014 than in 2012-2013. From those who have seen him play, this might be due to two things: Increased coverage and increased defensive awareness. For those who watch the big club and obsess over the lack of scoring from the left wing, seeing him drop 42.5% of his goals from the year before is horrifying. That said, his assists are up by 12.5% in 14 less games. Baie-Comeau also won 3 more games this season than they did last year. He has improved production on a team that won 72.8% of its games this season, but his goal scoring declined considerably.

Using the statistical argument, then, one could argue that the big concern with Zykov is the decline in goal scoring, but that we should not worry about his overall offensive production. My take on this is that while I would like Zykov to score more goals, the thing that concerns me about a first line player is that he is regularly guaranteeing that his line gets a goal/game on average. If Kopitar ended the season with 0 goals and 82 assists, I'd want him to score more goals, but I would say that he has contributed offensively the way he needs to for the team to win. This is the qualitative aspect of the argument: Does it matter who scores the goals or not as long as the goals are scored? My argument is that it does not matter who pots the goal as long as the Kings score more than their opposition. Others think differently, but as I cheer for the Kings, I only want the team as a whole to have more goals each game than the opposition. Assists lead to goals. Zykov's overall production was up slightly, therefore, I do not worry too much about his offensive game. The bigger question is, is he contributing in all facets of the game in a more elevated way than what the normal offensive statistics do not reflect? That is for scouts who watch the game to decide, which is why I put additional stock in your reports, TG, over a simple reading of the stats. I have not watched the games, therefore, I cannot answer the questions about Zykov's overall game either way, but if we want to use statistics, I'm not buying what the doubters are selling. From what I want from players, for where Zykov is projected to play, he has done his part statistically. Now, can he do the rest?

Nobody makes it to LA anymore without a complete game. Just ask Tyler Toffoli, Linden Vey, and Tanner Pearson. The thing with Zykov and every other player who gets drafted now is that they have at least 3 if not 4 or 5 years of development before they have a realistic shot of making it to the regular NHL roster. Ask yourself, where is the next opening going to be in LA in an offensive role and is there any guarantee that our young players are going to be there over the next Carter or Gaborik? This is exactly what we wanted all through the 2000s, now that we're into the second decade of the 21st century, we have to change our mindsets. LA's hockey's future is no longer next season, it's 5 seasons from now and the competition is fierce. Zykov and every other prospect will change dramatically in that time as they change from big boys to young men, so use the stats to see if he is still doing a statistical baseline of what he needs to accomplish, but otherwise, I'd leave the stats out of this one for a more realistic discussion of what it means for an 18 year old draftee to transition into a Los Angeles King.

T2M


This^.

A very well thought out and crafted position on our developmental system and I completely agree with where you are at as far as the steps that we have made in becoming the kind of team that we had always dreamt that we could be.
 
Not to hijack thread, here is his teams stats, pretty good names on there, and poor Froloaf.

Player Name Birthdate Age Pos. GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
Nikolay Prokhorkin 1993-09-17 19 L 52 19 18 37 47
Alexander Radulov 1986-07-05 27 R 34 9 25 34 75
Igor Grigorenko 1983-04-09 30 L 54 13 14 27 60
Ilari Filppula 1981-11-05 31 F 51 8 16 24 16
Alexei Morozov 1977-02-16 36 R 38 13 10 23 30
Oleg Saprykin 1981-02-12 32 L 52 10 8 18 42
Sergei Shirokov To Omsk 1986-03-10 27 R 25 4 9 13 6
Nikita Zaitsev 1991-10-29 21 D 33 4 8 12 18
Ilya Zubov To Vladivostok 1987-02-14 26 C 25 3 9 12 18
Georgi Misharin 1985-05-11 28 D 54 3 9 12 26
Denis Denisov 1981-12-31 31 D 44 5 6 11 22
Yakov Rylov 1985-01-15 28 D 31 4 6 10 10
Alexander Frolov From Omsk 1982-06-19 31 L 29 6 3 9 6
Brandon Reid 1981-03-09 32 C 26 3 6 9 6
Maxim Goncharov To Omsk 1989-06-15 24 D 21 3 4 7 24


When I was in EU for Sochi I was able to watch Porkins play in person for two games (I was over for 5 weeks give or take and also got to watch a couple of SEL games too). Added to the dedicated media of everything that NP has done this past season and I am still equally high on his ability to be a major league player. Unfortunately he will have to remain in RUS for another season before he can make it NA and then will need a season in MCH or so before we get our hands on him.

He is a very nice kid who's personality is in line with traditional Russian values. A very good sense of humor with a great work ethic.

His time in L.A. made a great impact on him. Here is a quote from an interview I was fortunate enough to get from him. "Моя мечта в моей жизни, чтобы жить и играть, как Лос-Анджелес. Я хочу быть королем, кто не хотел бы быть на командном первенстве. Это место, где я хочу для моей жизни."

Here is a rough translation and it doesn't work perfectly but you get the gist.

"My dream of my life to live and play as Los Angeles. I want to be a king, who would not want to be on the team championship. This is the place where I want for my life."
 
Stats aside, I'd like to know what folks who have watched him at least a few times have to say about his overall game. Because I do echo a little bit of Frolov's concern about him being a little bit of a simple grinder at this point, just not to the extent that I think he's done growing.

Zykov is not going to be some simple grinder, the Kid has got great soft hands for his size.

He is also a very , very good skater. He is going to be a top six player in the NHL, if he continues to work hard and up his Hockey IQ.

Again folks, don't put too much stock into JR's Numbers.

Trevor Lewis was a PPG in Jr's , Clifford scored 28G in Jr's .....On and on.

Weal/Kozun over PPG players in JR's and AHL, they may never see NHL ice period.
 
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This^.

A very well thought out and crafted position on our developmental system and I completely agree with where you are at as far as the steps that we have made in becoming the kind of team that we had always dreamt that we could be.

Thank you,

I may not be able to watch a lot of games, but I can at least try to make a reasonable starting point on an argument with the publicly available data (in this case, the stats). For those of us who have not been able to see the games, it gives us a foundation for those who have watched Zykov to build upon.

T2M
 
When I was in EU for Sochi I was able to watch Porkins play in person for two games (I was over for 5 weeks give or take and also got to watch a couple of SEL games too). Added to the dedicated media of everything that NP has done this past season and I am still equally high on his ability to be a major league player. Unfortunately he will have to remain in RUS for another season before he can make it NA and then will need a season in MCH or so before we get our hands on him.

He is a very nice kid who's personality is in line with traditional Russian values. A very good sense of humor with a great work ethic.

His time in L.A. made a great impact on him. Here is a quote from an interview I was fortunate enough to get from him. "Моя мечта в моей жизни, чтобы жить и играть, как Лос-Анджелес. Я хочу быть королем, кто не хотел бы быть на командном первенстве. Это место, где я хочу для моей жизни."

Here is a rough translation and it doesn't work perfectly but you get the gist.

"My dream of my life to live and play as Los Angeles. I want to be a king, who would not want to be on the team championship. This is the place where I want for my life."

Any thoughts on Nylander and Kempe out of Sweden if you've seen them? Always appreciate your insight.
 

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