Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Hale The Villain]

I agree with what you're saying, but I get the impression that the Senators badly want to get out of the Norris contract. Getting out of the Norris contract would be a big point of value for Ottawa if there is no market for him without serious cap considerations.

The way I wrote it out overcomplicates it, but it's basically Tkachuk+Norris for Lafreniere+Schneider+Picks & Prospects.

The simplified version of the Kreider component is that Ottawa would take Kreider if he cannot block a trade to them, if he can the Rangers would trade him somewhere else as a complimentary move

I don't think it'll be that difficult to get out of the Norris contract given the 25M expected jump in the cap over the next 3 years.

Might have to take on a bad short-term contract so the team acquiring him can afford his 8M cap hit, but there are teams out there that need center help and Norris is still a good player.

Kreider would be an example of a bad short-term contract, but there's no way he waives his NTC to come here and I don't see any kind of fit for Norris on the Rangers.

Also I definitely think Cuylle being included instead of Schneider makes more sense for us and them. Young replacement powerforward who can help replace some of Tkachuk's goal scoring, and given it's unlikely Kreider agrees to waive to leave New York, a spot at LW needs to be opened up for Tkachuk.

Schneider is solid but with Zub and Jensen doing a good job, Matinpalo emerging as a potential solution on the bottom pair, and Yakemchuk coming through the pipeline, think he'd be more of a luxury.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Umm don't know... Kakko, Dubois, Laine, Roslovic, Cotter, Tomasino, R. Smith, Mikheyev and Mangiapane (just to name a those) would look quite good playing alongside Stützle and most definitely register as "top 6" forwards for this team.


We're moving the goal posts here.

Your argument was that it's difficult/expensive (assets wise) to acquire top 6 wingers. I pointed out the fact that (with competent management) it's really not.

Cap space is a completely separate issue and again, competent management would have identified the need for a top 6 winger and put itself in a position to take advantage of the plentiful wingers' market by leaving itself some cap space. Instead, we showered marginal players like Perron and Amadio with millions for their "character".

Even with the lack of cap space (1.66M available today according to Puckpedia), is not an insurmountable hurdle to find a top 6 winger. A money in, money out trade could be pursued (see Dubois, Pierre-Luc). Or we could go after cheaper top 6 options (cap space wise) a la Philip Tomasino or Paul Cotter.

Cap space is not a separate issue, in a cap world. You said they have 1.66 cap space, if LTIR removed, it’s negative cap space.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Didn't find a home there either .. sneak JBD down

 

[Puikiou]

No goal posts have been moved. You want to acquire a top 6 winger. I said every difficult. Likely to be done in the free agency (which I think we will do).

You listed off a bunch of guys that were had for draft picks. Again not really possible at this moment.

Cap space is not a separate issue, in a cap world. You said they have 1.66 cap space, if LTIR removed, it’s negative cap space.

I literally provided recent examples (and could list plenty more) of how teams work around the lack of cap space. Be it with dollar in, dollar out trades (Dubois) or cheap top 6 options (Kakko, Tomasino, Cotter, etc.).

"No cap space" is an excuse for laziness or incompetence. Not some insurmountable hurdle for NHL organizations that are actually serious about improving and winning.

If this is done in the summer, it would be one draft away.

If this is done at the TDL, I agree that you're probably right.

I think that the Rangers almost certainly win the trade, because the only possible way it could go bad would be if Tkachuk has a career altering injury like Karlsson did - but the Senators adding 3 young and partly cost controlled pieces along with getting out from the Norris contract and adding some picks+prospects to restock from what Dorion gave up by going all in to polish the team up for a sale would be more helpful to the team than risking that Brady is unhappy a year into his NMC and the return becomes much less.

You sir are hereby nominated for the position of General Manager of the Ottawa Senators.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I literally provided recent examples (and could list plenty more) of how teams work around the lack of cap space. Be it with dollar in, dollar out trades (Dubois) or cheap top 6 options (Kakko, Tomasino, Cotter, etc.).

"No cap space" is an excuse for laziness or incompetence. Not some insurmountable hurdle for NHL organizations that are actually serious about improving and winning.

Well addressing the guys you mentioned here (other than Dubois who I don’t is the right guy for us) and even then. How do we get an 8 million dollar player in here ? Trade Norris somewhere else? Then we’re looking for a top 6 Center.

A player for the top 6 will be brought in this summer

Kakko - we don’t have a virgin to give up.
Tomasino 14 points in 30 games. Eh young question mark who knows what he is but I agree that’s. Solid chance to take.

Cotter has 19 points in 59 games im not sure he’s any better than other options we have

 

[bicboi64]

I think a logical return for Tkachuk if traded to NY would be something like Lafreniere, Cuylle, 2026 1st.

I imagine they'd hate to include Cuylle in the deal, as he's been great for them this year, but you have to give to get and he'd be a solid powerforward replacement at LW to help make up for the loss of Tkachuk, both in terms of goal scoring and physicality.

I'd want Schneider or Miller with Laf, but see the value in Cuylle. The dudes a stud and would mitigate some of the physicality we'd lose if we moved Tkachuk. Hope any 1st rounder we get back is unprotected.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I don't think it'll be that difficult to get out of the Norris contract given the 25M expected jump in the cap over the next 3 years.

Might have to take on a bad short-term contract so the team acquiring him can afford his 8M cap hit, but there are teams out there that need center help and Norris is still a good player.

Kreider would be an example of a bad short-term contract, but there's no way he waives his NTC to come here and I don't see any kind of fit for Norris on the Rangers.

Also I definitely think Cuylle being included instead of Schneider makes more sense for us and them. Young replacement powerforward who can help replace some of Tkachuk's goal scoring, and given it's unlikely Kreider agrees to waive to leave New York, a spot at LW needs to be opened up for Tkachuk.

Schneider is solid but with Zub and Jensen doing a good job, Matinpalo emerging as a potential solution on the bottom pair, and Yakemchuk coming through the pipeline, think he'd be more of a luxury.

I could see how someone might take Norris down the line, but I think that if there was a reasonable avenue to get rid of him, it would have been done by now. He has apparently been shopped since last year, with his injury interrupting that.

Kreider's NTC is a 15 team list. There is a good chance that we are on it. So I agree with that. But he does fit the mould of a player they would want to dump to make cap room for Tkachuk+Norris, and one we would want - so it's at least worth bringing up with the proposal.

Cuylle is a player I thought about, so I don't disagree. I don't think Schneider would be out instead of Cuylle. I think Cuylle would be in place of one of the prospects. If they lose Cuylle, they likely keep Kreider. Cuylle is in line for a raise from his ELC, so if he is moved off of the roster, both in terms of depth and cap - it eliminates the need to dump Kreider.

We need another defenseman. Jensen is great but, but he will also be 35 at the end of the season. Staios clearly does not want to rush Yakemchuk. Schneider would essentially play the Hamonic role, where he is the #5 whose minutes escalate when there are injuries. He would have a chance to win a job on one of the top 2 pairings, and with Jensen's contract up at the end of the 2025-2026 season, it would present a seamless transition if Jensen did not want to stay, or saw a major decline in his play, which may happen at 36. We could also probably lock Schneider down at a good number with term if he is open to that, because he hasn't really been deployed as a legitimate top 4 in New York so far.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I'd want Schneider or Miller with Laf, but see the value in Cuylle. The dudes a stud and would mitigate some of the physicality we'd lose if we moved Tkachuk. Hope any 1st rounder we get back is unprotected.

The way I see it, it could be structured Tkachuk+Norris for:

• Lafreniere
• Schneider or Miller
• Cuylle (or) any top prospect
• Picks+B or C prospects

Cuylle involved removes the need for the Rangers to move on from Kreider, because Cuylle likely gets 4M-6M next season, depending on the term. There is always a premium on power forwards relative to their production, and everybody knows the cap is shooting up. So I think 4M is the floor for him on a bridge deal. Probably like 2 years at 5M.

I think that Lafreniere's value has dropped since the start of the season. So this might not be a difficult trade for the Rangers to make. Norris+Lafreniere are both overpaid in the short term, although paying the Lafreniere bonus mitigates that. Brady is wildly underpaid if you consider what he might get on the open market this summer if he was a UFA. So if you look at all the components cap wise, it's not bad at all for the Rangers.

 

[bicboi64]

The way I see it, it could be structured Tkachuk+Norris for:

• Lafreniere
• Schneider or Miller
• Cuylle (or) any top prospect
• Picks+B or C prospects

Cuylle involved removes the need for the Rangers to move on from Kreider, because Cuylle likely gets 4M-6M next season, depending on the term. There is always a premium on power forwards relative to their production, and everybody knows the cap is shooting up. So I think 4M is the floor for him on a bridge deal. Probably like 2 years at 5M.

Valid points, but NYR wouldn't have a spot for Norris to play C. Miller, Zibby, and Trocheck are all better centres and unless they want to turn Norris to a winger, I don't think they'd take him. If they do take Norris and try to throw in Kreider to us as a dump (assuming he waives), there better be a first rounder coming back because Kreider is declining.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Valid points, but NYR wouldn't have a spot for Norris to play C. Miller, Zibby, and Trocheck are all better centres and unless they want to turn Norris to a winger, I don't think they'd take him. If they do take Norris and try to throw in Kreider to us as a dump (assuming he waives), there better be a first rounder coming back because Kreider is declining.

Trochek's NMC turns to a 15-team NTC next year, so there would be an opening for them to sell him off, but the way I see it is if the ask for Tkachuk is Lafreniere, Schneider, Cuylle or a prospect, and then draft picks, but they have to take Norris to get the trade - I think they are easily taking Norris and figuring it out down the road.

The way I look at it is if Brady was a free agent this summer and wanted to sign a 3 year contract, he is getting minimum 12.5M. Maybe more. If you're the Rangers and the total package of Brady+Norris is 16.3M, Norris really only has to be worth 4M, because Brady is justifying most of the cap coming to them.

Not to mention, the issues with Norris are more related to the liability of his term. While no team likes the hassle of having to strategically plan around players coming on/off of LTIR, if Norris is hurt for long periods of time, they are a big money team who can easily eat the real money cost. We aren't.

So I think that if the sticking point was that Norris has to be an overpriced 3C, or someone has to move over to wing where they aren't as good - they would just figure it out.

 

[TheNewEra]

Didn't find a home there either .. sneak JBD down

yeah if he goes unclaimed then now is the perfect time to sneak down jbd

 

[bicboi64]

Trochek's NMC turns to a 15-team NTC next year, so there would be an opening for them to sell him off,

Trochek is close friends with Miller. Drury is an idiot but not sure he'd reach this level of stupidity.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If we can't move Norris, and we trade Brady this summer - I wonder if both Pittsburgh and Ottawa would agree to Norris for Karlsson (with no retention) on July 1st.

The Senators will need a big marketing push if they lose Brady. Karlsson is one of the most popular players of all time, and his leaving represents something very negative for a fan of a certain age, who most likely is now in a position to buy season tickets.

Karlsson has a 5M signing bonus, presumably on July 1st. Meaning, he would be owed 4M in base salary only. Pittsburgh eating the signing bonus would be a proxy for retaining. They may prefer picks+prospects over Norris as a return for Karlsson, but that seems unlikely. Norris is the more dynamic asset for them, since he is young enough to figure into their next build but also get a return on 2-3 seasons down the line if he proves to be healthy.

Norris makes 9.5M per season for 2026 and 2027. Then he has 3 years left after that. This totals 42M for a player with long term injury concerns. Karlsson after his bonus is paid will only be owed 11.5M (4M/7.5M). That would be a massive burden off the books and it would likely help mitigate some of the backlash from moving Brady.

 

[Icelevel]

Lundell, Reinhart, Bennett
><
Tkachuk, Norris

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Lundell, Reinhart, Bennett
><
Tkachuk, Norris

NMCs stop that trade.

Florida doesn't have the pieces.

Florida makes sense if we trade him next year when he can pick his spot, and we are put in a position to have to take Lundell, and a late 1st without them even buying us dinner before hand.