Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[LiseL]

Where did you hear this from?

Oops, I just noticed Mickelbot already said it was on CIH podcast.

 

[LiseL]

OK. Ya, I missed that, but see it now. I think it's just Kierszenblat speculating from what I can gather though.

I think we could find out and perhaps have already started to find out what life will be like without our #2 & #3 centers though. I think people see Norris salary and think swapping him out will absolutely result in the team being better. I hope so, but think this is harder in practice than it looks. I get the injury concern though, but kind of curious what his current injury actually is and how long he’ll be out.

Well, it's not the shoulder (mid-body). Green already said he'd miss 2 weeks, not sure if that's in real-time or 2 weeks of games. Wally on CIH said it was some kind of strain and should be back after 4 Nations. Luckily, it's not long-term.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

So, the Hurricanes have given up on the idea of a run for the Cup 2 weeks after acquiring Rantanen?

The question was posed by some podcast guys who said they heard if Rantanen doesnt re-sign by trade deadline, Carolina might not want to walk for nothing and trade for assets.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

but for real what is the point of paying the assets + the new contract for Dobson when you can get a 5-6m Karlsson who can be a bigger gamebreaker, cost less, and has the playmaking, creativity, and cross ice passing we so badly need?

like imagine we start throwing out a pairing of Kleven-Karlsson instead of Kleven-Hamonic.

Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Jensen
Kleven-Karlsson

is insane.

that team is going to be a weapon no matter what line you throw out because the d pairings can all drive the play. three pairings that can win you the game.

if the price is manageable there is no reason to not go for it. it also allows us to get a cheap fast top 9 forward instead of having to give the assets for an expensive and established top 6 forward. Karlsson would more than makeup for the offensive drawdown between a top 9 vs a brand name top 6.

You're insane. You know Green is scratching Kleven and playing Hamonic on his wrong side with Karlsson if the Sens ever traded for him.

I don't think Karlsson is what this team needs at all.

 

[UglyPuckling]

The question was posed by some podcast guys who said they heard if Rantanen doesnt re-sign by trade deadline, Carolina might not want to walk for nothing and trade for assets.

The Canes owner (& their fans) would have justifiable concerns about their GM then if this is what ultimately transpired and was the net result. The Canes would have been better off just keeping Necas ultimately in this scenario i.e., better production & contract than Boeser who is UFA this summer. The Canes have been one of the better teams and have been a playoff team, but just haven’t had the scoring to push them into the final. Don’t know who the podcast guy was, but maybe it was just a slow day.

 

[Micklebot]

Batherson probably has negative value at the moment.

He isn't very expensive sure, but he also does nothing except score in bursts every now and then.

This is absurd

He's on pace for ~ 65 pts, for under 5 mil, he's been much better defensively this year too,

He's in a slump and it's understandable to be critical of his play right now, but good lord I'm glad fans aren't the ones deciding who to trade ....

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

This is absurd

He's on pace for ~ 65 pts, for under 5 mil, he's been much better defensively this year too,

He's in a slump and it's understandable to be critical of his play right now, but good lord I'm glad fans aren't the ones deciding who to trade ....

He definitely does not have negative value. His value for contract is quite attractive.

I feel that the temperature around wanting to trade him has stemmed from seasons past and not just this one. At least that's what I see.

I wouldn't mind to see the team make a shakeup in the offseason and trade away a 'core' player with value that would net a good return. I think Batherson would be that trade piece to do so.

 

[Masked]

No one's denying the scouts have made some good picks but they're made blatantly bad ones too.

And it's not because of "hindsight" either, Boucher, Thomson and Jarventie were drafted way higher than the general consensus, and none of them worked out.

Pinto and Sanderson were taken way higher than the general consensus also.

 

[Duncstar]

Dobson would be amazing, you'd have to think Zub would be a trade candidate in that case but again we'd need to trade a forward, Norris or Batherson, and then pickup another forward with the Zub return. If we could move Chabot I would but don't see it happening.

Would love Tuch but again, he's not on the market. Dobson-Sanderson would be a legitimate top pair. Have to think they're after more size though in our D. I wonder about Seth Jones but that contract and poor play seasons past makes me cringe all day...

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Would you guys do any of the following:

Batherson for Tuch

Norris+Tkachuk for Thomas + Kyrou

Batherson + Zub For Dobson

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

-Erik Karlsson @ 5M to 6.5M x 2.5Y (PIT Retains)
-A Forward Roster Player(s) From VAN or PIT or assets to acquire one in a second trade (Example, Ryan Donato).



-Josh Norris @ 8M x 5.5Y



-Picks+Prospects from VAN for Josh Norris.
-Any cap dumps from VAN to subsidize the term of the Norris contract.


The format of the previous Karlsson trade was San Jose retained, and then they facilitate Pittsburgh dumping a similar amount of bad money with term to Karlsson's cap hit. In return, they got assets.

This would be similar, except we don't have any neutral bad contracts like that to dump, so Pittsburgh takes both the return for Norris and the contracts with term that we need to take to facilitate Vancouver acquiring him.

It's not the trade we want, it's the trade we need. That's all you have to understand.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Pinto and Sanderson were taken way higher than the general consensus also.

Pinto maybe, but Sandy was a consensus top 10 pick.

 

[Alex1234]

We are 7th in the league in GA/GP and 20th in GF/GP
Although it would be awesome to add a D like Dobson we need forwards as we have trouble scoring
Someone like Rakell or Rust, Toffoli , Donato or maybe Lee even who can score off of Stu feeds without breaking the bank and are with teams going nowhere
Guys like Rantanen or Marner or Boeser are not coming here

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Pinto maybe, but Sandy was a consensus top 10 pick.

Sanderson wasn't a reach. For some reason, fans characterized him that way. I want to say that fans get attached to prospects they hear about all year, and tend to be biased against players who are risers, but Stutzle was also a riser and people were fine with him. Maybe because he is flashy forward, I don't know.

Sanderson was a riser and made a big statement in February 2020 at the 5 nations tournament (wait aren't there only 4?).

The 2020 draft was very fluid. The only thing close to consensus was that Lafreniere was in tier 1, and Stutzle and Byfield were in tier 2. There was a tier 3 of 8-10 players who could all go in a complete different order depending on who picked.

I don't mean complete consensus, because there are always going to be exceptions, like how Detroit was rumoured to want Stutzle at 1, and some scouts Bob McKenzie talked to had Sanderson at 3. But Lafreniere at 1, and then Stutzle/Byfield for the next two picks was about as close as you get to complete consensus for the NHL draft, and the next 8-10 picks were about as far as you can get from it.

If I recall, Anaheim wanted Sanderson ahead of Drysdale.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Bobby Ryan type albatross contract waiting to happen.

Exactly.

 

[Cosmix]

When was the last time a player blocked a trade OUT of Buffalo?

Try "out of the USA to Canada".

 

[SpezDispenser]

Batherson probably has negative value at the moment.

He isn't very expensive sure, but he also does nothing except score in bursts every now and then.

Insane.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Batherson probably has negative value at the moment.

He isn't very expensive sure, but he also does nothing except score in bursts every now and then.

It's puff puff pass not puff puff post on HF.

 

[Cosmix]

How much is it going to cost to re-sign Dobson, I'd love to add him, but he's going to be expensive next year and they'd likely want assets we don't have to make it happen. .

We do have some valuable assets including Yakemchuk, Kleven, first round pick in either 2025 or 2026 plus expendables (Perron, Amadio, JBD, Matinpalo, Hamonic, any 4th liner).

 

[Cosmix]

Amadio is fine. He brings enough to mostly justify his salary.

It's a pipe dream to think we'd ever get Dobson for Perron and Amadio, even if there was a big plus attached.

If he gets moved it'll probably be to a team that could use a top 4 RD and a #1 PP QB and is willing to trade a top 6 forward to get him.

We need top 6 forwards; however, if we could acquire Dobson, I would seriously consider trading Batherson (a top 6 F) or others such as Perron, Amadio, Giroux, Yakemchuk, etc.)

 

[Cosmix]

Until our amateur scouting gets the overhaul it deserves, I don't have a problem trading away picks, they're just gonna be used on low skill, high PIM players anyways.

The "buck" stops at the GM so if we still target low skill high PIM players he must go too.

 

[Cosmix]

I would offer up scraps for rentals, nothing more. On the table:
- 3rd-7th rounders
- JBD, Matinpalo, Sebrango
- Sogaard
- Bourgault, Boucher, Pettersson
- Nordberg, Eliasson, Ellinas, Moore, Stanley, Andonovski, Beckner, Donovan, etc

Use it on a guy you might want to re-sign for the bottom 6. Anything beyond that is just foolish.


ROR has been playing very well, he would be an amazing add

We should not acquire "rentals" by paying a high price because we are not a SC contender at this time.
We do need to build for future seasons so we must have a high degree of confidence that we can sign any expensive-to-acquire "rental". That probably means gaining the right to talk to the "rental" player prior to consummating the trade and getting player agreement to sign after the trade is made..

 

[bicboi64]

but for real what is the point of paying the assets + the new contract for Dobson when you can get a 5-6m Karlsson who can be a bigger gamebreaker, cost less, and has the playmaking, creativity, and cross ice passing we so badly need?

like imagine we start throwing out a pairing of Kleven-Karlsson instead of Kleven-Hamonic.

Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Jensen
Kleven-Karlsson

is insane.

that team is going to be a weapon no matter what line you throw out because the d pairings can all drive the play. three pairings that can win you the game.

if the price is manageable there is no reason to not go for it. it also allows us to get a cheap fast top 9 forward instead of having to give the assets for an expensive and established top 6 forward. Karlsson would more than makeup for the offensive drawdown between a top 9 vs a brand name top 6.

Ever since we drafted Yakemchuk and Jensen solidified himself as Chabot's partner, any need for EK disappeared. EK below $3 million on the third pairing is fine, but anything over that to have him play behind Zub and Jensen is wasted cap space. We would have to move Norris as well and kill centre depth that we aren't getting back in any situation where we get EK back.

I'll welcome EK back on a league min contract in a few years but right now it doesn't make sense

 

[bicboi64]

Would you guys do any of the following:

Batherson for Tuch

Norris+Tkachuk for Thomas + Kyrou

Batherson + Zub For Dobson

I'd consider Norris + Tkachuk for Thomas + Kyrou only because Thomas is an underrated #1 C who would be a beast on the Sens. Problem is, Kyrou is very shit defensively and not better than Tkachuk offensively to warrant that swap plus he's older. Only positive with Kyrou is he'd be signed for more term.

I'd be hesitant to trade Bath + Zub for Dobson because we don't have enough good forwards, and Dobson isn't good enough offensively to make up for that. Plus Sandy-Zub is one of the best D pairings in the league when both are healthy.

I'd keep Bath over Tuch because he's signed longer, but then again, Tuch could be extended for cheaper.

 

[Cosmix]

I can't see us giving up that package for Rantanen for the same reason Carolina would trade him. We can't afford to give up our 1st with how bad our prospect pool is and us owing the league a pick.

If it's Norris and a few other moving pieces for him that is different, especially if part of the incentive is to get out of the Norris contract.

The reality is that if Carolina trades Rantanen because he wants to test the market, they aren't getting back anything close to Me as, Drury, and a 2nd.

Carolina paid higher than rental prices based on the idea that they were getting him early and had a shot at re-signing him. With him testing the market, they will get a playoff 1st and maybe a roster player or something. Teams don't go nuts for rentals.

It is interesting that 9 out of the 16 teams in a playoff position at this time have already traded their #1 picks.