Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[bicboi64]

unless it turns into a favorable market for buyers i feel like both will cost a 3rd. That being said if we bring retention into the question cost will go up and it becomes tricky

I'd pay a 3rd for either guy. Throw in Boucher to give them a reclamation project for their rebuilds.

Realistically though, I think SJS is probably the most realistic dance partner for us, but for someone like Ceci or Ruuta

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I hope they don't go out there buying aggressively unless it's a guy with term. Unless Ullmark comes back soon, it's hard to be overly optimistic on what kind of damage they can do. They need to know he'll be back first. If he's out an extended period, I have to bet on them being on the outside looking in and that's just life.

 

[TheNewEra]

I'd pay a 3rd for either guy. Throw in Boucher to give them a reclamation project for their rebuilds.

Realistically though, I think SJS is probably the most realistic dance partner for us, but for someone like Ceci or Ruuta

i would pay san jose a 3rd to not trade us ceci

 

[GCK]

Is it?
GMs talk all the time, lay the ground work for a potential trade in the early offseason based the teams ability to sign the impact UFA winger.

As far as ‘not replacing’ Norris, I am replacing him - with Pinto, and Greig sliding into the middle where he belongs.
I’m shuffling where our assets are deployed and instead of spending $8 million for good goal scoring and decent production I’m spending more to get true elite line driving talent.

Or I guess we can hope the team kind a magically gets a level up?
The team is no position to trade picks or young players, our improvement needs to be made via UFA where only cash matters, while we move potentially replaceable players for assets IMO

You aren’t getting an elite line driving winger in UFA at sub 12M, and they aren’t signing in Ottawa anyway.

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, but I don't think getting a 45-55 point guy on the 2nd line is something they should worry about if they were able to get away from an 8 million doller one.

Even in a season we are looking to make it, it would be near impossible for me to say no to a trade where we got any kind of value back for him, or even just dumped him.

If we could trade away Norris for anything, and pickup a guy like Yanni Gourde for a 3rd/4th round pick to fill in, that would be extremely nice from my POV. A guy to finish out the yeasr who comes off the books and can likely contribute similar numbers offensively, and then 8 million off the books to play with in the offseason with Pinto as a possible internal replacement.

I feel like the conversation around Norris will always have a bit of a "grass is always greener" feel to it.

Norris is getting some of the toughest deployment on the team, in terms both of Opposition, and DZ starts and he's been excellent at the dot, I don't know that Gourde really fills the same role, maybe Pinto can get there, but he isn't there yet.

Gourde is currently on pace for 37 pts, I don't know if you consider that similar numbers, it's up from the 33 he put up last year, but he's certainly not scoring 30 goals like Josh is on pace for.

I get Gourde doesn't get a lot of PP time, but he's never been a big PP producer, not sure where he'd fit in, and Josh while not ripping the one timer like he used to, still has 9 PP pts already this year.

 

[Micklebot]

Is it?
GMs talk all the time, lay the ground work for a potential trade in the early offseason based the teams ability to sign the impact UFA winger.

As far as ‘not replacing’ Norris, I am replacing him - with Pinto, and Greig sliding into the middle where he belongs.
I’m shuffling where our assets are deployed and instead of spending $8 million for good goal scoring and decent production I’m spending more to get true elite line driving talent.

Or I guess we can hope the team kind a magically gets a level up?
The team is no position to trade picks or young players, our improvement needs to be made via UFA where only cash matters, while we move potentially replaceable players for assets IMO

You talk about magically leveling up, Pinto currently has 10 pts in 30 games, can he have some of that magic? I have high hopes for Pinto, but maybe he can prove he deserves that spot before we trade away a guy that's actually performing at the needed level, even if he's a bit overpaid.

 

[BondraTime]

I feel like the conversation around Norris will always have a bit of a "grass is always greener" feel to it.

Norris is getting some of the toughest deployment on the team, in terms both of Opposition, and DZ starts and he's been excellent at the dot, I don't know that Gourde really fills the same role, maybe Pinto can get there, but he isn't there yet.

Gourde is currently on pace for 37 pts, I don't know if you consider that similar numbers, it's up from the 33 he put up last year, but he's certainly not scoring 30 goals like Josh is on pace for.

I get Gourde doesn't get a lot of PP time, but he's never been a big PP producer, not sure where he'd fit in, and Josh while not ripping the one timer like he used to, still has 9 PP pts already this year.

He's playing 15:55 right now with Tye Karte and Branden Tanev, including PK time and no PP time, I think his numbers would look drastically different with Giroux and Batherson. His linemates have combined for 10 goals and 20 points, Norris' have combined for 22 goals and 60 points

He's got 6g and 10a at ES in 35 games, Norris has 8g and 4a in 38 games. At ES Gourde is playing more time at ES than Norris with 13:40 compared to Norris' 13:15, and is getting similar, if not tougher, deployment on the ice with 39% OZ start for Gourde, 41% OZ start for Norris along with playing on their shutdown line.

If we gave Gourde both Giroux and Batherson as linemates, he would absolutely be keeping up offensively with Norris, right in that 40-55 point range, and he doesn't need to replace Norris on the top PP as he's kind of redundant as is with a strong unit of Bath/Stu/Tkachuk all doing the brunt of the work, and both Giroux and Pinto on the 2nd unit. Switch out Norris with Pinto or Giroux and I'd wager our PP would be clicking along just as well with all the other guys still in the 15+ PP points range they are currently in.

I don't think the team would be in a much different spot switching out Norris with one of the rental middle 6 C options that will be available.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Look at what they did last offseason.

They inherited a team that was asset poor and had no cap flexibility. They moved heaven and earth to change out as many roster players as possible.

I think that they aren't sold on this team that Dorion built, and they want to put their own spin on it. Norris has been in the trade rumours since they took over. He was in the rumours last year leading up to the deadline, but then he re-injured his shoulder.

People will argue about the hole moving him creates, but his cap space moved out brings the opportunity to fill other holes. They have almost no cap flexibility next year, and multiple roles to fill.

I am not saying that there are no downsides to moving him. But I think if given the opportunity to move him for a contract with a lower cap hit and term, let alone the opportunity to dump his entire contract, it's something they should consider given how little flexibility they have with the cap next year, and how they have Pinto, Greig, and Ostapchuk behind Norris.

 

[HSF]

Look at what they did last offseason.

They inherited a team that was asset poor and had no cap flexibility. They moved heaven and earth to change out as many roster players as possible.

I think that they aren't sold on this team that Dorion built, and they want to put their own spin on it. Norris has been in the trade rumours since they took over. He was in the rumours last year leading up to the deadline, but then he re-injured his shoulder.

People will argue about the hole moving him creates, but his cap space moved out brings the opportunity to fill other holes. They have almost no cap flexibility next year, and multiple roles to fill.

I am not saying that there are no downsides to moving him. But I think if given the opportunity to move him for a contract with a lower cap hit and term, let alone the opportunity to dump his entire contract, it's something they should consider given how little flexibility they have with the cap next year, and how they have Pinto, Greig, and Ostapchuk behind Norris.

Moving Norris before Perron is wild to me

Also G has a big cap hit and is not a top 6 guy anymore

regardless, Norris is an offseason move and we would need to get a new center in here

 

[BondraTime]

Moving Norris before Perron is wild to me

Also G has a big cap hit and is not a top 6 guy anymore

regardless, Norris is an offseason move and we would need to get a new center in here

Perron isn't playing now, and has a year remaining at 4 million. Moving him really does nothing. He will be replaced by a 3-4 million dollar player for that role, minimal/no savings

Norris has this season and 5 years remaining at 8 million, there are tons and tons of avanues to make meaningful savings and changes

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I hope they don't go out there buying aggressively unless it's a guy with term. Unless Ullmark comes back soon, it's hard to be overly optimistic on what kind of damage they can do. They need to know he'll be back first. If he's out an extended period, I have to bet on them being on the outside looking in and that's just life.

Acquiring a goalie is going to be tricky because there are so few goalies available.

Ironically, most of the available goalies are from division rivals, Reimer (BUF), Primeau (MTL), and Husso (DET). Gibson is the only name thrown around who isn't from a division rival, but it would be tricky because he has term.

I don't mind adding a goalie with term, so long as we are sure it's the right goalie and we aren't just buying another team's problem. While I think that we will need a reliable tandem going forward, if we add a goalie like Gibson, there might be an avenue to trade him a season or two down the line when his term is lessened. Especially if Anaheim retains on him like they did on Fowler.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Moving Norris before Perron is wild to me

Also G has a big cap hit and is not a top 6 guy anymore

regardless, Norris is an offseason move and we would need to get a new center in here

The two thing aren't related. I don't think there is a realistic avenue to move Perron. There might be an avenue to move Norris either for future considerations, or in a deal for some lower value players in positions of need that have less term and lower cap hits.

We're not getting a taker for Perron without attaching at least a 2nd round pick to him or without him being a moving part in a bigger trade where we give up major assets for a valuable player (like Korpisalo was in the Ullmark deal).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

He's playing 15:55 right now with Tye Karte and Branden Tanev, including PK time and no PP time, I think his numbers would look drastically different with Giroux and Batherson. His linemates have combined for 10 goals and 20 points, Norris' have combined for 22 goals and 60 points

He's got 6g and 10a at ES in 35 games, Norris has 8g and 4a in 38 games. At ES Gourde is playing more time at ES than Norris with 13:40 compared to Norris' 13:15, and is getting similar, if not tougher, deployment on the ice with 39% OZ start for Gourde, 41% OZ start for Norris along with playing on their shutdown line.

If we gave Gourde both Giroux and Batherson as linemates, he would absolutely be keeping up offensively with Norris, right in that 40-55 point range, and he doesn't need to replace Norris on the top PP as he's kind of redundant as is with a strong unit of Bath/Stu/Tkachuk all doing the brunt of the work, and both Giroux and Pinto on the 2nd unit. Switch out Norris with Pinto or Giroux and I'd wager our PP would be clicking along just as well with all the other guys still in the 15+ PP points range they are currently in.

I don't think the team would be in a much different spot switching out Norris with one of the rental middle 6 C options that will be available.

Norris is very unreliable. He really can't drive a line ... He is better than average on faceoffs and he works to get back defensively.. but isn't great in the dzone. He could be replaced with a cheaper player no question and if that player has some speed and ability to be better at possession and/or puck battles.. It could be an easy win. I have always liked Gourde and think he would be a good fit.

 

[Melgene Eunyk]

I just don't understand why they wouldn't try to pick up Primeau off waivers for free. Especially because we were dealing with injuries already.

Worst case scenario, we send his ass down and there was no loss. Not that he's the answer, but sometimes a change of scenery/system does it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Acquiring a goalie is going to be tricky because there are so few goalies available.

Ironically, most of the available goalies are from division rivals, Reimer (BUF), Primeau (MTL), and Husso (DET). Gibson is the only name thrown around who isn't from a division rival, but it would be tricky because he has term.

I don't mind adding a goalie with term, so long as we are sure it's the right goalie and we aren't just buying another team's problem. While I think that we will need a reliable tandem going forward, if we add a goalie like Gibson, there might be an avenue to trade him a season or two down the line when his term is lessened. Especially if Anaheim retains on him like they did on Fowler.

I don't really expect them to get one, was more just trying to say that if Ullmark is out and drags on, I don't want management operating like this team is going anywhere and needs a boost that costs assets. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but imo, they're almost certainly out of the playoffs without a healthy Ullmark and would want them operating under that premise. If he comes back and they're charging, I could see wanting to do something.

 

[Melgene Eunyk]

I like some of the things staios has done for this organization, stability being a big one, but he takes WAY too long to make what should be a quick decision.

That can be the difference in a tight playoff race.

 

[Xspyrit]

Greig is a centre pushed to the wing. I would like to get a RW with potential to play in our top 6. I really like Greig but you need to give to get. My primary target would be Jack Quinn who I think would be ideal with Stutzle, same age as Greig and Buffalo is flush with wingers but light at centre.

In that case I understand, I was too focused on "similar aged winger"... but if that winger has significantly more offensive potential, then I can understand. It would suck to move Greig though.

 

[TheNewEra]

Look at what they did last offseason.

They inherited a team that was asset poor and had no cap flexibility. They moved heaven and earth to change out as many roster players as possible.

I think that they aren't sold on this team that Dorion built, and they want to put their own spin on it. Norris has been in the trade rumours since they took over. He was in the rumours last year leading up to the deadline, but then he re-injured his shoulder.

People will argue about the hole moving him creates, but his cap space moved out brings the opportunity to fill other holes. They have almost no cap flexibility next year, and multiple roles to fill.

I am not saying that there are no downsides to moving him. But I think if given the opportunity to move him for a contract with a lower cap hit and term, let alone the opportunity to dump his entire contract, it's something they should consider given how little flexibility they have with the cap next year, and how they have Pinto, Greig, and Ostapchuk behind Norris.

there is some logic to moving Norris in the offseason, just really depends on if Norris ends the season healthy

There will be a market for a 30 goal scorer who gets 55 points from the Center position. Teams will be willing to look past injury concerns if he ends the season healthy. However a small injury and it goes out the window. Such a fine line here

 

[ottawagm]

I would try to move Norris in a deal for two players...

O'Reilly + Nyquist
Strome + 50% Gibson etc.

We have too many 8M players.

 

[GCK]

Perron isn't playing now, and has a year remaining at 4 million. Moving him really does nothing. He will be replaced by a 3-4 million dollar player for that role, minimal/no savings

Norris has this season and 5 years remaining at 8 million, there are tons and tons of avanues to make meaningful savings and changes

It’s absolutely asinine to move Norris until we see if Pinto can fill the role. Pinto’s contract is up after next season, that’s when you maybe think about moving on from Norris. A 2C is going to command over 8M

In that case I understand, I was too focused on "similar aged winger"... but if that winger has significantly more offensive potential, then I can understand. It would suck to move Greig though.

I agree BUT as you have said, Dorion screwed us by unloading 1st round picks and drafting Boucher. Since we can’t get high end UFAs to come Staios will need to be creative in balancing the forwards just like moving Chychrun for Jensen.

 

[PlayOn]

Friedman said during the Tkachuk rumours a couple months ago that the Sens involve him in a lot of conversations. He mentioned someone asking him if Brady was one of the most powerful players in the league in terms the input he has with the franchise - Friedman said he didn’t know but they do talk to him a lot and his input is heard.

And Brady has said the reason he re-signed here long-term was because he specifically believes in the core, knew what they had coming in terms of prospects etc and that he knows they can win.

Not saying Staios wouldn’t trade Norris, but just throwing it out there that if Brady really is that involved it may not be the route they plan on taking. I really don’t know that they are going to make major changes, I think if anything they will slowly try to chip away at the flaws year after year until they get the team where they want it to be.

 

[Micklebot]

He's playing 15:55 right now with Tye Karte and Branden Tanev, including PK time and no PP time, I think his numbers would look drastically different with Giroux and Batherson. His linemates have combined for 10 goals and 20 points, Norris' have combined for 22 goals and 60 points

He's got 6g and 10a at ES in 35 games, Norris has 8g and 4a in 38 games. At ES Gourde is playing more time at ES than Norris with 13:40 compared to Norris' 13:15, and is getting similar, if not tougher, deployment on the ice with 39% OZ start for Gourde, 41% OZ start for Norris along with playing on their shutdown line.

If we gave Gourde both Giroux and Batherson as linemates, he would absolutely be keeping up offensively with Norris, right in that 40-55 point range, and he doesn't need to replace Norris on the top PP as he's kind of redundant as is with a strong unit of Bath/Stu/Tkachuk all doing the brunt of the work, and both Giroux and Pinto on the 2nd unit. Switch out Norris with Pinto or Giroux and I'd wager our PP would be clicking along just as well with all the other guys still in the 15+ PP points range they are currently in.

I don't think the team would be in a much different spot switching out Norris with one of the rental middle 6 C options that will be available.

At 5v5,
Gourde is on the ice for 19 DZ faceoffs per 60 mins
Norris is on the ice for 28.27 DZ faceoffs per 60

Thats a pretty start difference. I think the difference is Norris gets less NZ starts and shifts those to OZ relative to what Gourde gets.

I use woodmoney for opposition, it looks at their % of TOI against various levels of opposition, Norris is at the top among centers, while Gourde is 3rd.

Fair point about the linemates potentially helping out production, I don't know if I'd say absolutely produce more mind you since Gourde played with Bjorkstand (59 pts) and Tolvainen (41pts) last year and put only put up 33 pts.

As for replacing Norris on the PP, he's 3rd on the team in PP goals, he's not redundant, he's part of our success.

 

[Wondercarrot]

You aren’t getting an elite line driving winger in UFA at sub 12M, and they aren’t signing in Ottawa anyway.

So that’s why I had said Marner and someone suggested Rantenen - and they were both at $13 million.
It fit in the cap matrix, though listen I agree with you - they very likely aren’t coming here.

BUT - imo this would be a good way to go if the GM could make it happen.

 

[Wondercarrot]

You talk about magically leveling up, Pinto currently has 10 pts in 30 games, can he have some of that magic? I have high hopes for Pinto, but maybe he can prove he deserves that spot before we trade away a guy that's actually performing at the needed level, even if he's a bit overpaid.

Yeah that’s fair re. Pinto
I think in believe enough in his ability that in this scenario I’d be looking to lock him up for 3-4 years at a high end #3 C then theoretically move Norris, then sign the UFA winger.

Just trying to find value in the roster.
I’m not looking to dump Norris though I guess all trade proposals seem that way.
I like Norris, I just think we have so little roster flexibility that C i feel is position of strength we could substantially improve the roster by making the moves I suggested.*

* admittedly longshots to pull off.

Tkachuk Pinto Marner
3.5 mil Stutzle Batherson
Giroux Greig Amadio
1 mil Ostapchuk Gregor

IMO this is a much more balanced and dangerous forward group.

 

[TheNewEra]

I just don't understand why they wouldn't try to pick up Primeau off waivers for free. Especially because we were dealing with injuries already.

Worst case scenario, we send his ass down and there was no loss. Not that he's the answer, but sometimes a change of scenery/system does it.

dylan ferguson is available now