Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I'm gonna bet around 5 for Giroux if his production stays around the same. I hope he takes a haircut and prioritizes the team trying to win, but not holding my breath. Also think we should be going 1 year at a time at this point, but it'll likely be 2.

Again we can give him a 35+ contract ala most of his salary is in bonuses.

 

[UglyPuckling]

This looks realistic to me. I would replace your $2M TBD for the backup goalie and replace it Merilainen, and reallocate the difference toward an upgrade over Giroux. I would keep JBD where you slotted Yak, who I would start in the AHL to begin the season.

Yes, its hard (or harder) to figure out our strategy for backup goalie. I don’t know if they’d run with Merilainen as backup as he hasn’t much NHL experience, but I’m just guessing on this.

JBD is RFA next year, and would need to be qualified. So, rather than guessing what happens, I just omitted him. Yes, Yakemchuk might not start the year on the big club, but you can think of this as $975 k for one of the bottom 2 (6D/7D) slots and $800 k for the other bottom (6D/7D) slot. So, yes you could put JBD in there for the 6D slot but the assumption then would be his cap hit is $800k. I put more emphasis I suppose on the number versus an exact mapping of the specific player to each slot.

Again we can give him a 35+ contract ala most of his salary is in bonuses.

See post # 17,998.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Yes, its hard (or harder) to figure out our strategy for backup goalie. I don’t know if they’d run with Merilainen as backup as he hasn’t much NHL experience, but I’m just guessing on this.

JBD is RFA next year, and would need to be qualified. So, rather than guessing what happens, I just omitted him. Yes, Yakemchuk might not start the year on the big club, but you can think of this as $975 k for one of the bottom 2 (6D/7D) slots and $800 k for the other bottom (6D/7D) slot. So, yes you could put JBD in there for the 6D slot but the assumption then would be his cap hit is $800k. I put more emphasis I suppose on the number versus an exact mapping of the specific player to each slot.


See post # 17,998.

I realize we dont have as much cap as what people might think, but this doesn't change the fact we can give Giroux a 35+ contract.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I realize we dont have as much cap as what people might think, but this doesn't change the fact we can give Giroux a 35+ contract.

Yes, performance bonuses for NHL players who are 35 or older and sign a one-year contract count against the salary cap:

• Explanation
  Performance bonuses are not guaranteed, but they are added to the final cap hit for the season in which they are earned. If the total cap hit, including bonuses, exceeds the salary cap, the excess is a bonus carryover that counts against the cap in the following season

 

[Tuna99]

i would absolutely love this but heres the thing

Giroux has 20 points in 31 games, about a 53 point pace, last year he had 64 points

perron's contract is the floor in my opinion, i expect giroux's contract to be in the 4.5-6 million range, that being said a performance contract is a good way around it

Last year G was scoring big goals but now it feels like he’s getting points from what others Are doing like Stu and Brady.

And they can replace him on the PP, Gaudette and Pinto both right shots and could use more PP time.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Again we can give him a 35+ contract ala most of his salary is in bonuses.

I hope they do. That seems like a reasonable ballpark to base it on with reasonably achievable bonuses.

 

[Tuna99]

I hope they do. That seems like a reasonable ballpark to base it on with reasonably achievable bonuses.

But where does he play and be a real solid player, the only open spot is the top line and he has not impressed this season in the op 6, the faster the Sens get and they are getting faster every game the slower G looks. Just don’t see a spot, feels like an emotional signing over a rational one


Batherson
Amadio
4th line guy Gaudtette

I don’t see G being a good top line winger next year.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

But where does he play and be a real solid player, the only open spot is the top line and he has not impressed this season in the op 6, the faster the Sens get and they are getting faster every game the slower G looks. Just don’t see a spot, feels like an emotional signing over a rational one


Batherson
Amadio
4th line guy Gaudtette

I don’t see G being a good top line winger next year.

That is a fair concern. I'm operating under the pretense of what I expect to happen, not necessarily weighing in with what I want to happen. IF he stays, which I expect he will, a pay cut should definitely be in order.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I hope they do. That seems like a reasonable ballpark to base it on with reasonably achievable bonuses.

The bonuses will count against the cap next season, or the following year (a bonus carryover).

So, let’s say $2 m is carryover bonus because next year’s cap is being squeezed, then Ottawa would have $2 + 1.875 = $3.875 m counting against the cap in 2026-27. Not sure how people view this, but just saying there’s implications.

 

[Tuna99]

That is a fair concern. I'm operating under the pretense of what I expect to happen, not necessarily weighing in with what I want to happen. IF he stays, which I expect he will, a pay cut should definitely be in order.

I wouldn’t pay him more them $2 million so you can use that extra float on other position, the guy has made like $100 million + USD and negotiation wise if he wantS to pack up his family and move for an extra million or so to continue his career that’s something I’d use to lower his salary and take a big home town discount, otherwise have fun in Nashville

NIT saying the Stamkos gong show in Nashville will influence him. But chasing money ain’t always the best idea

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

The bonuses will count against the cap next season, or the following year (a bonus carryover).

So, let’s say $2 m is carryover bonus because next year’s cap is being squeezed, then Ottawa would have $2 + 1.875 = $3.875 m counting against the cap in 2026-27. Not sure how people view this, but just saying there’s implications.

Well the following year means more cap is rising, Perron is off the books, so I'm fine with that.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The bonuses will count against the cap next season, or the following year (a bonus carryover).

So, let’s say $2 m is carryover bonus because next year’s cap is being squeezed, then Ottawa would have $2 + 1.875 = $3.875 m counting against the cap in 2026-27. Not sure how people view this, but just saying there’s implications.

Ya, another point of consideration. I was thinking of the Connor Brown situation Edmonton faced. It's not just free money, it has consequences. With the rising cap though, I could see the team going that route and hoping G re-ups even cheaper the next year in a smaller role.

I wouldn’t pay him more them $2 million so you can use that extra float on other position, the guy has made like $100 million + USD and negotiation wise if he wantS to pack up his family and move for an extra million or so to continue his career that’s something I’d use to lower his salary and take a big home town discount, otherwise have fun in Nashville

NIT saying the Stamkos gong show in Nashville will influence him. But chasing money ain’t always the best idea

I'm not necessarily opposed, but I'm not sure how realistic I think it is that the team handles it this way.

 

[Tuna99]

Ya, another point of consideration. I was thinking of the Connor Brown situation Edmonton faced. It's not just free money, it has consequences. With the rising cap though, I could see the team going that route and hoping G re-ups even cheaper the next year in a smaller role.


I'm not necessarily opposed, but I'm not sure how realistic I think it is that the team handles it this way.

If it becomes the team is disrespecting him by not paying full market I’d walk away, if he want to be a part of Improving the team it’s max $2 million he needs to be realistic.

In prospective, G either dies with $167 USD million dollars or $165 USD million dollars and if it means that much to him he’s chasing money and not winning

 

[WallyD]

Greig is 6'1" and 183 lbs. He is a light-weight forward. He is more a pest than a heavy physical player. He has some offensive skills but does not appear to be a top 6 F to me. At This Time.

He could improve as he is young. I like his spunk! Paired with the right player (a shooter), perhaps Gaudette, he might be able to contribute more because he has shown some offensive creativity.

I respect your assessment of current state. I love Grieg's grit and pest factor, something the Sens are lacking, or at least it has yet to be demonstrated my many other than say Brady.

The issue I see with Grieg is his puck handling / play-making. It's just not there, at least not to where he should be slotted anywhere near the top 6. IMO, Grieg has been misplaced there for much of the season, and he is nowhere near ready for that. It remains to be seen if he can improve his play making, but way too many plays die on his stick. I have been a proponent of playing him no higher than bottom 6, to give him a chance to figure things out. Placing him in the top 6 against oppenent top defensive players effectively neuters him.

As for trading Grieg, I would not like to see him moved as I think that might be giving up on him too early. That said, it is fair to observe that a GM who has too much of a similar asset and little cap wiggle room may be forced to give up something good to get something good (needed).

 

[NyQuil]

I respect your assessment of current state. I love Grieg's grit and pest factor, something the Sens are lacking, or at least it has yet to be demonstrated my many other than say Brady.

The issue I see with Grieg is his puck handling / play-making. It's just not there, at least not to where he should be slotted anywhere near the top 6. IMO, Grieg has been misplaced there for much of the season, and he is nowhere near ready for that. It remains to be seen if he can improve his play making, but way too many plays die on his stick. I have been a proponent of playing him no higher than bottom 6, to give him a chance to figure things out. Placing him in the top 6 against oppenent top defensive players effectively neuters him.

As for trading Grieg, I would not like to see him moved as I think that might be giving up on him too early. That said, it is fair to observe that a GM who has too much of a similar asset and little cap wiggle room may be forced to give up something good to get something good (needed).

It's strange because it's as if he has no confidence with the puck.

Reminds me a bit of Pinto before he finally broke out.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

i would absolutely love this but heres the thing

Giroux has 20 points in 31 games, about a 53 point pace, last year he had 64 points

perron's contract is the floor in my opinion, i expect giroux's contract to be in the 4.5-6 million range, that being said a performance contract is a good way around it

I agree that the Perron contract is the internal comparable, but saying 3.5 is too low is splitting hairs, saying 3.5-4.5 simply leaves the possibility that Giroux takes a soft contract here.

50 points isn't what it used to be in the NHL. It's second line production. I don't think 4M or so is a soft offer for a player his age with that production.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Well the following year means more cap is rising, Perron is off the books, so I'm fine with that.

True. Pinto and Ostapchuk will be RFA and need new contracts and Jensen and Gregor (a lesser concern) are UFA as well. There’s always some unknowns and a need to consider all the details even when it comes the future (i.e., 2 years out). Kicking the can down the road can (or may) have implications.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If it becomes the team is disrespecting him by not paying full market I’d walk away, if he want to be a part of Improving the team it’s max $2 million he needs to be realistic.

In prospective, G either dies with $167 USD million dollars or $165 USD million dollars and if it means that much to him he’s chasing money and not winning

Not sure where you are getting $165 million from, it’s $98 million, and he does pays taxes.

I know either number is crazy, but you were over exaggerating it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If it becomes the team is disrespecting him by not paying full market I’d walk away, if he want to be a part of Improving the team it’s max $2 million he needs to be realistic.

In prospective, G either dies with $167 USD million dollars or $165 USD million dollars and if it means that much to him he’s chasing money and not winning

I get the sentiment, but I think 2 is still on the low end of what will realistically be offered.

And while I think your second point has merit (no idea on accuracy of numbers) and it's something I'm surprised doesn't happen more often, it's a pretty rare occurrence. Most of these guys ultimately want what they think they deserve, even if they have to move.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I agree that the Perron contract is the internal comparable, but saying 3.5 is too low is splitting hairs, saying 3.5-4.5 simply leaves the possibility that Giroux takes a soft contract here.

50 points isn't what it used to be in the NHL. It's second line production. I don't think 4M or so is a soft offer for a player his age with that production.

The number will vary with term, I think he gets more than 4 on 1 year, but could see 4 on a 2 year,

 

[bashbros32]

I wouldn’t pay him more them $2 million so you can use that extra float on other position, the guy has made like $100 million + USD and negotiation wise if he wantS to pack up his family and move for an extra million or so to continue his career that’s something I’d use to lower his salary and take a big home town discount, otherwise have fun in Nashville

NIT saying the Stamkos gong show in Nashville will influence him. But chasing money ain’t always the best idea

I know that these two contracts aren't very comparable... but I don't see G signing for less than what Perron just signed with us for... especially if his season this year ends up better points wise than Perrons LAST year.

Perron had 47 in 76 games, Giroux is on pace for 52 in 82, so roughly the same... I could see him signing for 4.25-4.75 range.

 

[WallyD]

It's strange because it's as if he has no confidence with the puck.

Reminds me a bit of Pinto before he finally broke out.

Yup... that's why I cited play-making because it seems that on the top lines he can't give or take a pass well. Much bobbling was had by all. Not that it will slow down that much for him but that is why I want to see him develop some confidence on the bottom 6. Once (/if) he gains confidence there, finds his groove as it were, you move him up to other lines. Just don't think he is getting a fair shake if he is tossed on the top line when he has yet to demonstrate a fit there. You may want him there but it is premature to expect he can perform at peak there. Lots of young players need to find their comfort level, pace, so I don't see it as a fault. Only top ranked players can start there and look like they belong. Just my 2 cents on it... you get (your money's worth) what you pay for!

 

[LiseL]

Kleven hasn't shown he's remotely close to earning $2.5mill. Stud defensive Dman that are very productive 5on5 like Slavin and Weegar earn significantly less than their peers, and those are UFA contracts.

Giroux is over 35, we can get him a 35+ contract. Pay him $3mill in cap hit and $3mill in bonuses.

Is he still worth $6M? I don't think he should be making more than Drake. Yes, he's still an effective player but he's lost a step. I think $5M in total would be more than fair with the bonus structure you mentioned ($2.5/$2.5).

 

[DrEasy]

Is he still worth $6M? I don't think he should be making more than Drake. Yes, he's still an effective player but he's lost a step. I think $5M in total would be more than fair with the bonus structure you mentioned ($2.5/$2.5).

We'll have Perron, Jensen and Ullmark as vets next year, do we still really need Giroux, or instead of paying a $ premium for veteran presence should we go for someone who is objectively a performance upgrade over him?

Not too mention a few of our own "young guys" are now pretty old themselves lol. Hopefully they'll get a taste of the playoffs this year to add to their own experience level.

 

[Cosmix]

I am going to guess Forsberg to Carolina for a late pick and a warm body waiver exempt goalie like Tokarski.

Then we go out and acquire a pending UFA RHD using that cap space. Mods have banned me from saying who I think it might be. I'm apparently on thin ice as far as they can see. See, I don't want to cause any trouble so I won't mention his name.

Is there a ban on speculation?

We'd have to move out Forsberg to make it work, and probably trade JBD as well.

For what it's worth, that projected space includes both Merrilainen and Forsberg, so you can add about 820k to it.

All that said, your point stands, we don't have a ton of flexibility, we can waive guys (forsberg I guess) and recoup up to 1.125 mil, or we can trade guys. Alternatively, we can pay for the other team to retain (which was never happening on Carrier).

I guess we could pull a TBL/VGK with Perron, give him the season off on LTIR and bring him back for the playoffs...

Due to Forsberg's current salary, UFA situation, Likely not being in future plans, and the need to create salary cap room to enable an acquisition, he is likely a player that Staious would trade sooner than later. However, we would need to acquire a decent backup goaltender.