Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[bicboi64]

Karlsson - no retention + 1st for Norris and we're a go.

I'd do that deal if its just Norris going straight up for EK and we get a 1st coming back. Some cap retention would be nice, but we'll make it work considering we'll probably have someone on LTIR all season long lol

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I think they would prefer to retain and keep their 1st. They are rebuilding with a mandate to recoup draft picks. I'd be shocked if they attached anything substantial to Karlsson.

I also would argue that the Norris contract is worse than the Karlsson one, due to the added term and injury history. Norris is a better player now, but that's not the only factor.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Cap might present a problem.

Ffs, it's true too

 

[Wondercarrot]

They are not giving up a pick to dump Karlsson. They want to get more picks. If they really don't want him around they can always buy him out, even if there are no real cap savings.

I think if you asked every team whether they would take Karlsson at 3 years 8M or Norris at 6 years 8M, it would be split. Norris is the better player now, but he has double the term of Karlsson, which adds a lot to risk with his injury history.

Karlsson retained for Norris would be a very fair trade. Ottawa gets out of the contract sooner, while Pittsburgh gets the player with more upside who if he plays well for a year or two might be able to be flipped for an actual return.

Yeah, I don’t really disagree. Just want to get a pick too lol

 

[bicboi64]

Yeah, I don’t really disagree. Just want to get a pick too lol

I'll take one of their 2nd from last year and toss in esteemed former 1st rounder Boucher to help Dubas accelerate their rebuild lol

 

[Big Muddy]

I'd do that deal if its just Norris going straight up for EK and we get a 1st coming back. Some cap retention would be nice, but we'll make it work considering we'll probably have someone on LTIR all season long lol

Nope, bad idea imho.

If you’ve watched Karlsson lately, he’s not even trying to defend. Players blow right by him, he makes a feeble waive of his stick as they go by, and they score goals.

It's not what we need imho. Nostalgia is strong though.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Nope, bad idea imho.

If you’ve watched Karlsson lately, he’s not even trying to defend. Players blow right by him, he makes a feeble waive of his stick as they go by, and they score goals.

It's not what we need imho. Nostalgia is strong though.

You are not wrong but I think it is entirely possible that he is lazy and not trying rather than being completely washed up.

He was good on the Sharks when they were a contender. The moment they rebuilt, all of a sudden he stinks. Then he is good again when he needs to be good to make a trade to a contender possible. Now the Penguins are rebuilding and he is bad again.

If he comes back to the Sens, who have Alfredsson to get in his head, and are trying to make the playoffs, maybe he will play better.

 

[SpezDispenser]

You are not wrong but I think it is entirely possible that he is lazy and not trying rather than being completely washed up.

He was good on the Sharks when they were a contender. The moment they rebuilt, all of a sudden he stinks. Then he is good again when he needs to be good to make a trade to a contender possible. Now the Penguins are rebuilding and he is bad again.

If he comes back to the Sens, who have Alfredsson to get in his head, and are trying to make the playoffs, maybe he will play better.

A bigger red flag, I can't recall seeing

 

[Loach]

You are not wrong but I think it is entirely possible that he is lazy and not trying rather than being completely washed up.

He was good on the Sharks when they were a contender. The moment they rebuilt, all of a sudden he stinks. Then he is good again when he needs to be good to make a trade to a contender possible. Now the Penguins are rebuilding and he is bad again.

If he comes back to the Sens, who have Alfredsson to get in his head, and are trying to make the playoffs, maybe he will play better.

I like to think that he never wanted to leave. He booked because things where a mess, just like Alfie did. If he came back, he would empty the tank for the team. Let me have this dream please.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I like to think that he never wanted to leave. He booked because things where a mess, just like Alfie did. If he came back, he would empty the tank for the team. Let me have this dream please.

I think it was already pretty much reported by Friedman that the issue was Karlsson and Melnyk, not Karlsson and Ottawa.

I think he only stayed in San Jose because they offered him one of the most lucrative contracts of the cap era, and no other team was going to go that high for him on a buyout proof contract with his injury history at the time.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I like to think that he never wanted to leave. He booked because things where a mess, just like Alfie did. If he came back, he would empty the tank for the team. Let me have this dream please.

I think it was already pretty much reported by Friedman that the issue was Karlsson and Melnyk, not Karlsson and Ottawa.

I think he only stayed in San Jose because they offered him one of the most lucrative contracts of the cap era, and no other team was going to go that high for him on a buyout proof contract with his injury history at the time.

I think being tight with Alfie probably played a part too. He knew first hand that Melnyk could not be trusted and Karlsson knew Melnyk expected a discount on his market value.

 

[Hale The Villain]

As a major fan of his, it's honestly difficult to watch Karlsson right now.

He just doesn't care as much as he used to. Lazy inattentive defensive play is the norm, and his offense isn't making up for it like it did a couple years ago.

Not only do we not need a one-dimensional offensive defenseman right now, we don't need to add someone who isn't bringing it every night.

He's just not a fit anymore and it boggles the mind he still is being brought up in this thread after we drafted Yakemchuk and acquired Jensen.

 

[Loach]

I think being tight with Alfie probably played a part too. He knew first hand that Melnyk could not be trusted and Karlsson knew Melnyk expected a discount on his market value.

Karl probably would have signed for discount with a nmc...but

 

[Stylizer1]

I like to think that he never wanted to leave. He booked because things where a mess, just like Alfie did. If he came back, he would empty the tank for the team. Let me have this dream please.

I think he was holding out in hopes the team would sell before he had to move to SJ.

 

[Loach]

Karl probably would have signed for discount with a nmc...but

Let's not keep going with this. There is guy named Rhino playing for us now and that's dope!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Karl probably would have signed for discount with a nmc...but

Ah yes, that's right. That's what he said after. Something to the effect of if I'd signed, they'd have just traded me anyways.

 

[Big Muddy]

You are not wrong but I think it is entirely possible that he is lazy and not trying rather than being completely washed up.

He was good on the Sharks when they were a contender. The moment they rebuilt, all of a sudden he stinks. Then he is good again when he needs to be good to make a trade to a contender possible. Now the Penguins are rebuilding and he is bad again.

If he comes back to the Sens, who have Alfredsson to get in his head, and are trying to make the playoffs, maybe he will play better.

The not trying part would seem quite likely. It sure looked that way to me.

He still has $10 m/yr cap hit ($11.5 - 1.5 retained).for this year and 2 more years, so yes I’d certainly hope he’d be trying and motivated.

SS is in a tough situation. We are out of the playoffs on American Thanksgiving and we need to leap frog (6) teams again. If he makes a bad trade, and we still don’t make it into the playoffs, that won’t be good, or look good. Especially when you have a young RD Yakemchuk in the fold.

 

[Stylizer1]

As a major fan of his, it's honestly difficult to watch Karlsson right now.

He just doesn't care as much as he used to. Lazy inattentive defensive play is the norm, and his offense isn't making up for it like it did a couple years ago.

Not only do we not need a one-dimensional offensive defenseman right now, we don't need to add someone who isn't bringing it every night.

He's just not a fit anymore and it boggles the mind he still is being brought up in this thread after we drafted Yakemchuk and acquired Jensen.

His not king of the hill in Pittsburgh. Crosby and Malkin probably breath most of the air in that locker room. As good as they are they are going through the motions too. They don't have what it takes to carry a team far into the playoffs let alone make them it seems. Playing in the east is better in all of the sports because travel is a bitch. He might not be ppg Karlsson anymore but he would be that all star caliber Dman which lets everyone else slide down a spot and have more space.

We wouldn't miss Norris as much as Karlsson would add to this team. I think Sanderson would only benefit from having him on his wing.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Karl probably would have signed for discount with a nmc...but

He wasn't signing with Melnyk.

I have always wondered if there was any truth to the rumours about a sale that summer. The way the trade talks were described by insiders was that Dorion kept moving the goal posts whenever his price would be met. Then there was the infamous attaching of Ryan to Karlsson, which the team publicly disputed.

There was also the very strange delay tactic where Dorion said he wouldn't trade Karlsson until he was allowed to talk to him about a contract on July 1st. But Pierre Lebrun confirmed via Bill Daly that the league had no problem with teams talking to players they owned the rights to ANY TIME about a contract extension, only that it couldn't be filed and made binding until July 1st of their final year. So Dorion was either misinformed about a very important aspect of his job, or he lied to delay the Karlsson trade. Although, it could have been a tactic to trick the season ticket base into thinking Karlsson might stay.

If he didn't get a NMC, he probably would have been flipped, but ironically it likely would have blown up in the face of the Senators because even at 8 years 10M, he wouldn't have been moveable with his recurring injuries. I think that they knew he wasn't signing with Melnyk, so the attempt at signing him had to be some form of public theatre.

 

[Loach]

He wasn't signing with Melnyk.

I have always wondered if there was any truth to the rumours about a sale that summer. The way the trade talks were described by insiders was that Dorion kept moving the goal posts whenever his price would be met. Then there was the infamous attaching of Ryan to Karlsson, which the team publicly disputed.

There was also the very strange delay tactic where Dorion said he wouldn't trade Karlsson until he was allowed to talk to him about a contract on July 1st. But Pierre Lebrun confirmed via Bill Daly that the league had no problem with teams talking to players they owned the rights to ANY TIME about a contract extension, only that it couldn't be filed and made binding until July 1st of their final year. So Dorion was either misinformed about a very important aspect of his job, or he lied to delay the Karlsson trade. Although, it could have been a tactic to trick the season ticket base into thinking Karlsson might stay.

If he didn't get a NMC, he probably would have been flipped, but ironically it likely would have blown up in the face of the Senators because even at 8 years 10M, he wouldn't have been moveable with his recurring injuries. I think that they knew he wasn't signing with Melnyk, so the attempt at signing him had to be some form of public theatre.

Dorion being misinformed about his job and lying....you don't fackin say.

 

[Hale The Villain]

His not king of the hill in Pittsburgh. Crosby and Malkin probably breath most of the air in that locker room. As good as they are they are going through the motions too. They don't have what it takes to carry a team far into the playoffs let alone make them it seems. Playing in the east is better in all of the sports because travel is a bitch. He might not be ppg Karlsson anymore but he would be that all star caliber Dman which lets everyone else slide down a spot and have more space.

We wouldn't miss Norris as much as Karlsson would add to this team. I think Sanderson would only benefit from having him on his wing.

If Karlsson's defensive play doesn't improve from it's current state he'd need to produce a PPG just to justify remaining in the lineup.

Even at 50% retention and zero acquisition cost I don't know if I'd take on his contract.

There's just not a fit with Jensen+Zub now on the right side + Yakemchuk potentially being ready to play in 1-2 years.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Dorion being misinformed about his job and lying....you don't fackin say.

Dorion: 'When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so' - TSN.ca

Ottawa Senators general manager Pierre Dorion told season-ticket holders on a conference call Friday that the team plans to offer Erik Karlsson a contract extension on July 1.

www.tsn.ca

I guess it is more like a white lie. In fairness to Dorion, I can't find him exactly saying that they aren't allowed to talk to him until July 1st. I do seem to remember at one point Pierre Lebrun did consult Bill Daly to report on either Karlsson or Turris because Dorion had either implied or stated that the league would not allow them to talk to a player before the July 1st date. Lebrun clarified and reported that July 1st was only the date for the contract to become binding, and that the league had nothing against two sides engaging in talks prior to that, so long as the team owned the rights to the player.

 

[Loach]

Dorion: 'When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so' - TSN.ca

Ottawa Senators general manager Pierre Dorion told season-ticket holders on a conference call Friday that the team plans to offer Erik Karlsson a contract extension on July 1.

www.tsn.ca

I guess it is more like a white lie. In fairness to Dorion, I can't find him exactly saying that they aren't allowed to talk to him until July 1st. I do seem to remember at one point Pierre Lebrun did consult Bill Daly to report on either Karlsson or Turris because Dorion had either implied or stated that the league would not allow them to talk to a player before the July 1st date. Lebrun clarified and reported that July 1st was only the date for the contract to become binding, and that the league had nothing against two sides engaging in talks prior to that, so long as the team owned the rights to the player.

I remember all this.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

No, this is far less about believing or not believing, in as much as it is about fact and historical significance.

I am from a tribe; Banou Azd. They first surfaced in 200 CE. As in first documented. Their original area of living was South Western Saudi Arabia (It was not called that back then). The view is, Common religion back then was: idolism and other such religions... OR Judaism.

Moses supposedly took a route due south of the Sinai and back up to a city called Ezion-Geber (Modern day AQABA, Jordan). At the Southern most part of their journey, you are a 100 km boat ride, to where my tribe would have been.

1 ) At Ezion-Geber (Aqaba).. you are 1200 km from that area. So, say the Jews who fled with Moses, headed in all different directions!!!!

2) My family name has tremendous links to Ezion-Geber... But that may be accidental, or decided on later.

In 300-350 CE, a branch of us, converts to Christianity. Aligns itself with the Byzantine Empire and spreads Orthodox Christianity. This would have been around the time of Constantine the Great. The first Emperor to turn the Roman empire into the Holly roman empire. The Byzantine empire is simply the derivative of the Eastern Roman Empire.

And we migrate (the new branch of the tribe) north from Saudi/Yemen. Straight to Jordan.. Ergo Ezion-Geber.

4) the Azds that remained. Made up the population of Mecca and Madena. Making the Prophet Mohamed, likely one of us. Christians that remained, were successful and guided the Mohameedens. Theory has it that the Quran was written by Christians. Ergo the adaption of Abrahamic religions. Even the Archangel that visited Mohamed in the cave are Judo-Christian ones. (Archangel Gabriel)

5) we continue North and go through Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem Granted in the 500-1000 CE.

6) Some of us land in Sothern Lebanon.. This is the more Tricky association. A Maronite Priest (a sect of Catholicism, began in Lebanon in 350 CE) wrote a book theorizing that Christ was from Lebanon, not Nazareth/Bethlehem (modern day Israel). His theory is not universally accepted, but not debunked either.

He theorized that Qana. The city where Jesus attended a wedding and turned water into wine, is Qana Lebanon (the Lebanese have long believed that and Qana, Lebanon is deemed sacred. It is today in Huzbulalh hands and gets bombed regularly). Qana Lebanon is 25 minutes from my village.

My Village was also started by the crusaders in the 1100 time frame. And was home to a famous Crusader/Salah El Deen battle.

So, I have Moses, Christ, the Mohamed as direct connections. POSSIBLY.

I TRY VERY HARD to keep an open mind. And try very hard to walk a fine line on religion. Historically, it can be alarming to connect dots. Although, you do have to be careful that these dots are not connected incorrectly.

For any Serbs out there. Constantine the great was a Serb. Modern Christianity owes its existence to the Serbs.

Saint Paul was German. While born in modern day Turkey, everything about him suggests a German. And consider that the Romans battled the Germans, it is possible that his ancestors where brought over by the Romans.

there is the lesson on history and religion.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He wasn't signing with Melnyk.

I have always wondered if there was any truth to the rumours about a sale that summer. The way the trade talks were described by insiders was that Dorion kept moving the goal posts whenever his price would be met. Then there was the infamous attaching of Ryan to Karlsson, which the team publicly disputed.

There was also the very strange delay tactic where Dorion said he wouldn't trade Karlsson until he was allowed to talk to him about a contract on July 1st. But Pierre Lebrun confirmed via Bill Daly that the league had no problem with teams talking to players they owned the rights to ANY TIME about a contract extension, only that it couldn't be filed and made binding until July 1st of their final year. So Dorion was either misinformed about a very important aspect of his job, or he lied to delay the Karlsson trade. Although, it could have been a tactic to trick the season ticket base into thinking Karlsson might stay.

If he didn't get a NMC, he probably would have been flipped, but ironically it likely would have blown up in the face of the Senators because even at 8 years 10M, he wouldn't have been moveable with his recurring injuries. I think that they knew he wasn't signing with Melnyk, so the attempt at signing him had to be some form of public theatre.

Their attempt at public theatre was quite the miscalculation. What a bush league operation it was.