Sportsnet: Frank Seravalli: Core guys don't work as hard as other stars

[TheGreenTBer]

I really hate this narrative that the Core 5 are lazy. Bc I don’t think they are. They probably don’t work as hard as McD and Mack, which I would agree. Like LeBron, Carmelo, Wade and Bosh all thought they worked hard individually until they realize Kobe started his routine at 4-5am in the morning till they played together on the redeem team.

To me, they still can’t figure out what it takes to win in playoffs. They really don’t. Winning in playoffs is not just beefing up in the off seasons or train an extra hour per day, it is all that plus mindset, taking hits inorder to make plays….

Your first paragraph contradicts itself IMO.

If they aren't lazy, but don't work as hard as a champion, then what are they?

 

[pcruz]

Why does he play at a 52 goal pace over his career during the regular season and but then only a 30 goal pace during the playoffs? Why does he go from well over a point per game to well under and no shows during series clinching games?

You're asking why the best players get focused on in the playoffs?
31 goals, 40 assists, 71 points per 82 game

Playing against scrubs like:

2016/17 - Braden Holtby - 2nd in Vezina voting, 10th in Hart, 1st in Jennings. Previous season of Vezina win and 4th in Hart.
2017/18 - Rask - 1 time Vezina winner.
2018/19 - Rask - 2nd in Vezina voting this season.
2019/20 - Merzlikens and Korpisalo - Absolutely abysmal performance by the top guys and quite inexcusable.
2020/21 - Price - I think he's been pretty good in his career and posted a .924 save % in 22 games that playoffs.
2021/22 - Vasilevskiy - Vezina finishes of 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6
2022/23 - Vasilevskiy - Vezina finishes of 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6
2022/23 - Bobrovsky - 2 time Vezina winner
2023/24 - Swayman - posted a .933 save % in 12 games. Not bad.
2023/24 - Ullmark - Had won the Vezina the previous season and got shelled by Toronto.
2024/25 - Ullmark - Shelled once again by toronto.
2024/25 - Bobrovsky -


So, over the course of 9 seasons' worth of playoffs, Toronto has faced 13 goalies.
Those goalies have won 7 Vezina trophies, and 6 Stanley Cups.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

F me. Seravelli is a joke. We all know it. How does he have a job? Somebody end his career for the love of gawd. I just can't stand untalented hacks getting the doors held open for them, cuz reasons. This can't be the best the hockey world has to offer, leading to a place where that potato has a voice of any merit.

Look - I loathe this core. But this nonsense is a load of bs as usual from this lowest common denominator mf'er..

 

[Gabriel426]

Your first paragraph contradicts itself IMO.

If they aren't lazy, but don't work as hard as a champion, then what are they?

Well if someone wins a silver medal in the Olympics, does that mean that athlete sucks?

Let’s say McD and Mack work habit is 100, while AM and MM are at 95, while the rest is at 70, does that mean AM and MM are lazy?

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

You're asking why the best players get focused on in the playoffs?
31 goals, 40 assists, 71 points per 82 game

Playing against scrubs like:

2016/17 - Braden Holtby - 2nd in Vezina voting, 10th in Hart, 1st in Jennings. Previous season of Vezina win and 4th in Hart.
2017/18 - Rask - 1 time Vezina winner.
2018/19 - Rask - 2nd in Vezina voting this season.
2019/20 - Merzlikens and Korpisalo - Absolutely abysmal performance by the top guys and quite inexcusable.
2020/21 - Price - I think he's been pretty good in his career and posted a .924 save % in 22 games that playoffs.
2021/22 - Vasilevskiy - Vezina finishes of 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6
2022/23 - Vasilevskiy - Vezina finishes of 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6
2022/23 - Bobrovsky - 2 time Vezina winner
2023/24 - Swayman - posted a .933 save % in 12 games. Not bad.
2023/24 - Ullmark - Had won the Vezina the previous season and got shelled by Toronto.
2024/25 - Ullmark - Shelled once again by toronto.
2024/25 - Bobrovsky -


So, over the course of 9 seasons' worth of playoffs, Toronto has faced 13 goalies.
Those goalies have won 7 Vezina trophies, and 6 Stanley Cups.

Ah yes, the goalie excuse. Used just as much as the injury excuse.

How come most of those goalies proceeded to crap themselves in subsequent rounds? Rask was bad vs Tampa, Vas wasn't great vs the Avs in the finals, Vegas owned Bob in the finals, Panthers owned Swayman in round 2

If it was a few years, you could maybe chalk it up to elite goaltending. But 7 years in the Tavares era....Matthews gets paid too much to be affected by external factors. He hasn't been good enough in the playoffs, plain and simple.

 

[Leafs87]

They work harder than the Canes stars

 

[Kiwi]

Jesus I ******* hate Seravalli

I've had my problems with all of our big 4 over the years but only a complete clown would accuse them of not working hard

They aren't physical, or mentally tough enough but never once during our many calamities and failures have I ever thought they were putting in anything less than 100% effort

We've lost a ton of close games against some very good teams, you don't do that coasting around half assing it

This is crap, Seravalli is a plank but I'm sure it's going to go down well with a portion of the fan base and media who love any reason to put the boot in

The core 4 are guilty of a lot of stuff but this is going way to far

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Well if someone wins a silver medal in the Olympics, does that mean that athlete sucks?

Let’s say McD and Mack work habit is 100, while AM and MM are at 95, while the rest is at 70, does that mean AM and MM are lazy?

I see a little bit more what you're getting at now, thanks for explaining.

I think the Olympic analogy is apples to oranges but I get what you were trying to convey.

 

[wingman75]

Delulu.

Honestly.

It's easy to pile on Marner, but the entire core has been pathetic at crunch time. Getting rid of one or two of them, doesn't all of a sudden change the way Matthews or Nylander are wired. It's fanciful thinking, and insane to suggest so.

I actually believe it could change Matthews mentality. When I see things not going well for the Leafs, or if they are struggling in a tough situation I feel like Matthews and Marner feed off each others fear... and frustration... and are unable to breakaway and perform the way they need to, or I guess that is needed by the team.

The team will not be better with Marner gone, zero chance of that, but the hope is that Matthews gets a fresh breath of mental air around him that again hopefully triggers something we haven't seen, the ability to perform in critical situations.

Will it work? No idea... maybe. But it is something that should have been done 4 years ago (after the Habs series) and shame on MLSE for not seeing this and acting upon it.

 

[Fogelhund]

@JT AM da real deal perhaps can confirm... Marner's always had some sort of need to be appreciated. His Dad always pumped him up, but growing up (GTHL...)he was always second to McDavid, and it seemed to have caused some sort of complex, where he wants to be seen as the best, as a "God". Maybe you can elaborate on this?

 

[weems]

@JT AM da real deal perhaps can confirm... Marner's always had some sort of need to be appreciated. His Dad always pumped him up, but growing up (GTHL...)he was always second to McDavid, and it seemed to have caused some sort of complex, where he wants to be seen as the best, as a "God". Maybe you can elaborate on this?

I recently went back and read alot of his posts and now actually believe he's telling the truth about his knowledge of the Marner situation.

 

[rumman]

@JT AM da real deal perhaps can confirm... Marner's always had some sort of need to be appreciated. His Dad always pumped him up, but growing up (GTHL...)he was always second to McDavid, and it seemed to have caused some sort of complex, where he wants to be seen as the best, as a "God". Maybe you can elaborate on this?

I’d love to have this explained to this forum……….

 

[Dayjobdave]

And yet there are numerous reports about how hard Matthews works off the ice from team mates, former team mates, his coach end of year presser and his former coach

I remember a reporter interviewing Rich Clune about being the hardest working guy in the gym, and he said something to the effect of maybe for the regular humans but nowhere near Matthews or Engvall.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I am not sure what some are watching. I am not saying our top players dog it... The eye test alone tells you that a guy like McDavid, like Crosby, like Nate... they put much more into each game. Relentless.

Have you ever described any of our top players as relentless?

I think everyone on this team needs to rewatch game 6 against Boston last year. That was extra intensity. Except maybe Mitch.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I remember a reporter interviewing Rich Clune about being the hardest working guy in the gym, and he said something to the effect of maybe for the regular humans but nowhere near Matthews or Engvall.

Yup. I just can't believe people think a guy is scoring 69 goals in the NHL and doesn't put in the work just because he hasn't done it in specific games (which is clearly mental). I can only assume these people have never played a sport, nvm competitively.

 

[Jojalu]

View attachment 1043256

Drai without McDavid is not great...

Not this playoff, but over the course of his career, his numbers are better when McDavid is injured.

 

[stealth1]

Yup. I just can't believe people think a guy is scoring 69 goals in the NHL and doesn't put in the work just because he hasn't done it in specific games (which is clearly mental). I can only assume these people have never played a sport, nvm competitively.

He puts in the work for the regular season. I don't think it's mental at all. IMO Matthews and Marner don't seem interested in doing what it takes to go that next level come playoff time. Part of it IMO has a lot to do with their style of play. Neither one are players that drive the play or drive the net.

 

[BlueForever75]

Marner has always been one that believed he was owed respect. This came from Paul. This is no different then the Lindros situation years back where Bonnie made Eric feel superior to others on the team and organizations.

Paul has done this all the time through his GTHL time. As others have mentioned, Paul would argue with coaches and league commissioners as to how Mitch was mistreated during games when McDavid was not. He felt his son was to be in the same category as McDavid and he was not. This infuriated Paul.

Paul Marner actually get Mitch from playing in games because he was boycotting how his son was treated and seen. Paul used to have to get dragged out of arenas by his wife for going after refs and league officials at games. Had his run ins many of times with other kids parents on the same team, let alone the other team almost every game. He was an arrogant SOB.

And for this he passed on those qualities to his son. His son only plays when he wants to. His son only plays when he feels he is respected by teammates, coaches and fans. If any of those 3 do not respect him, he f's off and goes through the motions.

He has been brought up this way, and as people say the apple does not fall to far from the tree. And when that tree is still relevant in that apples life!!!! Well this is when you have a Mitch Marner situation.

Great player, horrible attitude. Needs to go.

 

[TMLeafer]

Bullshit tabloid-like take just to pile on.

 

[Tak7]

I actually believe it could change Matthews mentality. When I see things not going well for the Leafs, or if they are struggling in a tough situation I feel like Matthews and Marner feed off each others fear... and frustration... and are unable to breakaway and perform the way they need to, or I guess that is needed by the team.

The team will not be better with Marner gone, zero chance of that, but the hope is that Matthews gets a fresh breath of mental air around him that again hopefully triggers something we haven't seen, the ability to perform in critical situations.

Will it work? No idea... maybe. But it is something that should have been done 4 years ago (after the Habs series) and shame on MLSE for not seeing this and acting upon it.

You might be right, but just think about what you've said - your star center gets weighed down by his buddy on the team and they feed into each other's negativity.

That, to me, doesn't sound like the sort of strong willed personality that you can build a winner around.

 

[FerrisRox]

Nylander fading out wasn’t good after Florida put the Barkov coverage on him. But doesn’t it stand to reason that with the hardest assignment has shifted to your hottest player that this the moment when Matthews and Marner need to slice and dice the Lundell line or the Bennett line, no excuses?

Exactly.

Nylander was shutdown by Barkov. Marner and Matthews shut themselves down.

Enormous difference.

 

[FerrisRox]

So, over the course of 9 seasons' worth of playoffs, Toronto has faced 13 goalies.
Those goalies have won 7 Vezina trophies, and 6 Stanley Cups.

Doesn't the entire Eastern Conference also have to go through these goaltenders? (and other big dogs like Shesterikin and Sorokin)

I have never understood the excuse that was commonplace around here the last few years that the Leafs "drew a tough match up" as if you don't have to beat everyone to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[The Iceman]

They do work but....
If Marner is a 9/10 regular season and a 6 in the playoffs
Matthews similar

Sam Bennett and other Panthers go from a 7 to a 10

 

[FerrisRox]

Marner has always been one that believed he was owed respect. This came from Paul. This is no different then the Lindros situation years back where Bonnie made Eric feel superior to others on the team and organizations.

Many years ago at the Hockey Hall of Fame, the summer *before* Eric Lindros made his NHL debut with the Flyers, Bonnie Lindros walked into the Hall.

Multiple members of the staff recognized her becuase the Nordique holdout and subsequent trade were huge stories at the time, and word got around quickly she was visiting.

After about 45 minutes, she asked a staff member if there was an "Eric Lindros display." Keep in mind, he hasn't even set foot on NHL ice at this point.

She was told no, but that his stick from the Canada Cup and his Oshawa Generals jersey were on display in the junior section and in the display case for the Canada Cup.

She looked puzzled, and said "I know you have quite a bit of his stuff donated, why doesn't he have an exhibit?" The person she was talking to began his response by saying "Mrs. Lindros," which seemed to catch her off guard, I think she thought she not recognized, "...this is the Hockey Hall of Fame. The exhibits are for members of the Hall." She left shortly after.

 

[Stephen]

Doesn't the entire Eastern Conference also have to go through these goaltenders? (and other big dogs like Shesterikin and Sorokin)

I have never understood the excuse that was commonplace around here the last few years that the Leafs "drew a tough match up" as if you don't have to beat everyone to win the Stanley Cup.

Well, the Leafs did objectively lose to a cup finalist (no winners) in 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2025, that’s Boston, Montreal, Tampa, Florida and Florida.

But a self styled cup contender has to beat the best to be the best. Not like those 90s Red Wings and Avalanche and Devils found a safe path to their titles.