Pre-Game Talk: Fragility

[McOilers97]

Team seems to suck after long breaks, but this group should have figured things out by now.

A whole lot of players are having poor or disappointing seasons right now:
- Bouchard: 3rd in team points, but nowhere near last year's output
- RNH: on pace for about 50 points
- Hyman: didn't expect him to replicate 54 goals, but he'll likely only end up around 25-30g and about 50points
- J. Skinner: I think we all expected him to score at a 30 goal pace playing with one of the 2 big guns, but he has 11 goals in 53 games (pace for 17 goals in 82 games)
- Arvidsson: Expected 25g and 50-60point pace but he's on pace for about half of those numbers
- Henrique: on pace for 10 goals, 20ish points; doesn't look like the same player as last year

And lastly, I have to say it: this is McDavid's worst season since his rookie year. On pace for 30+goals and 80+ assists, which are still top-tier numbers, but especially in terms of goal production, he hasn't seemed to be able to beat goalies with his shot consistently last season, or this one. Went from 64goals in 82 games in 2022-23, to only 55goals in the last 131 games. Why has he regressed from a 60 goal scorer back to a 30-35 goal scorer? I have no idea.

 

[K1984]

Pretty much, maybe Frederic and Kane will help drag this sorry bunch into the fight because Knobs no hit hockey sure as hell doesn’t.

We've had physical players here before and still did this. Nothing to do with the coach or select personnel. Frederic or Kane aren't going to stop the pathetic puck management. They aren't going to save pucks. They aren't going to outmuscle defensively behind and in front of our net. They aren't going to make meaningful contributions to neutral zone defence or back checking. They aren't going to be 5v5 offensive drivers. That's everyone else's job, and the effort in all these areas is a joke and the reason this is happening.

Pervasive cultural problem. Not sure the exact source, not sure the antidote, but I think its pretty obvious at this point this this goes pretty far beyond the coach at the time when this exact thing has been an annual theme for nearly a decade now. I make this post every year, yet every year people still seemed surprised when this happens. This is a f***ed up group of players. Don't know why, but they are. If we win anything ever it will be in spite of this, not because we solved it. Can't imagine it will change now 8 years in.

Team seems to suck after long breaks, but this group should have figured things out by now.

A whole lot of players are having poor or disappointing seasons right now:
- Bouchard: 3rd in team points, but nowhere near last year's output
- RNH: on pace for about 50 points
- Hyman: didn't expect him to replicate 54 goals, but he'll likely only end up around 25-30g and about 50points
- J. Skinner: I think we all expected him to score at a 30 goal pace playing with one of the 2 big guns, but he has 11 goals in 53 games (pace for 17 goals in 82 games)
- Arvidsson: Expected 25g and 50-60point pace but he's on pace for about half of those numbers
- Henrique: on pace for 10 goals, 20ish points; doesn't look like the same player as last year

And lastly, I have to say it: this is McDavid's worst season since his rookie year. On pace for 30+goals and 80+ assists, which are still top-tier numbers, but especially in terms of goal production, he hasn't seemed to be able to beat goalies with his shot consistently last season, or this one. Went from 64goals in 82 games in 2022-23, to only 55goals in the last 131 games. Why has he regressed from a 60 goal scorer back to a 30-35 goal scorer? I have no idea.

I think he was more effective in his rookie year to be honest. This is probably his worst year period.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree with a lot of what the OP says except that the fragility isn't really existing in the core players. One could say Bouchard but he's a still learning D and he's frankly not such a great learner. Shit takes time.

Look at our core and the expected players are bringing it. Drai in spades owning the league season after season. Ekholm trying hard as he can despite age. Nurse finding his game again this season and enjoying it somewhat again. I think for him hockey just stopped being fun during Woodcrap/Manson time. Its hard when the people telling you what to do are out of their element. It creates a huge struggle.

McD struggling somewhat but who knows what with. I doubt its fragility.

Nuge is this season just what he is. A guy that hasn't found the passion this season and most of his career has been content to be the next guy. Just there. It was the problem getting guys like J Skinner and Arvid too. Players that have had little time on contenders start to gravitate to being different kinds of players. Players that just basically learn to accept being beat. If you look at the no hope era with Hall, Eberle, Nuge its what those players learn. They can't win, can't make playoffs, no matter what they do. Multtiply that by all career and you have J Skinner. A guy that doesn't even know anymore how to W.

The fragility as almost always exists with the architects of this and an org that hires one questionable candidate after another to "manage" the club.

Its not really the players. Majority of them shouldn't even be on a contender at present ages. This team died a bit in the offseason. For sure the roster components did.

I said this many times i was imperative for the club to go out and get a goalie. Repeating with these it brings up too much bad memory and questions. Too much mileage.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Oilers just tanking a bit to avoid the Avs in the 1st round.

 

[Messrules11]

We've had physical players here before and still did this. Nothing to do with the coach or select personnel. Frederic or Kane aren't going to stop the pathetic puck management. They aren't going to save pucks. They aren't going to outmuscle defensively behind and in front of our net. They aren't going to make meaningful contributions to neutral zone defence or back checking. They aren't going to be 5v5 offensive drivers. That's everyone else's job, and the effort in all these areas is a joke and the reason this is happening.

Pervasive cultural problem. Not sure the exact source, not sure the antidote, but I think its pretty obvious at this point this this goes pretty far beyond the coach at the time when this exact thing has been an annual theme for nearly a decade now. I make this post every year, yet every year people still seemed surprised when this happens. This is a f***ed up group of players. Don't know why, but they are. If we win anything ever it will be in spite of this, not because we solved it. Can't imagine it will change now 8 years in.



I think he was more effective in his rookie year to be honest. This is probably his worst year period.

I agree with basically everything but hard hitting can change the complextion of a game or atleast a period. It gets the fans going who in turn can wake a few players up. Guys like Moreau and Jason Smith are sorely missed with this bunch.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We've had physical players here before and still did this. Nothing to do with the coach or select personnel. Frederic or Kane aren't going to stop the pathetic puck management. They aren't going to save pucks. They aren't going to outmuscle defensively behind and in front of our net. They aren't going to make meaningful contributions to neutral zone defence or back checking. They aren't going to be 5v5 offensive drivers. That's everyone else's job, and the effort in all these areas is a joke and the reason this is happening.

Pervasive cultural problem. Not sure the exact source, not sure the antidote, but I think its pretty obvious at this point this this goes pretty far beyond the coach at the time when this exact thing has been an annual theme for nearly a decade now. I make this post every year, yet every year people still seemed surprised when this happens. This is a f***ed up group of players. Don't know why, but they are. If we win anything ever it will be in spite of this, not because we solved it. Can't imagine it will change now 8 years in.



I think he was more effective in his rookie year to be honest. This is probably his worst year period.

Because again the org didn't add appreciably to the core of this club. In the whole span of McDrai, over a decade now the org has added two pieces to the core. Ekholm and Hyman. Thats essentially it. The vast majority of players added over a decade have been rotating deck chairs and one older and worse than the other.

Team was lucky enough to find a Bouchard although he is struggling. But mostly this is just a horribly composed roster. We started the season with about 8 players that are just here on retirement contracts and thats it. Don't believe the word salad from the players. Players like Connor Brown are frauds just here to be paid. Not even working for another contract. Players that are done,, period. This is the worst roster in years that we started the season with. Guys like J Skinner and lol arvidsson were never going to fly on a contender. They were never going to be players that could handle the fishbowl.

 

[K1984]

Because again the org didn't add appreciably to the core of this club. In the whole span of McDrai, over a decade now the org has added two pieces to the core. Ekholm and Hyman. Thats essentially it. The vast majority of players added over a decade have been rotating deck chairs and one older and worse than the other.

Team was lucky enough to find a Bouchard although he is struggling. But mostly this is just a horribly composed roster. We started the season with about 8 players that are just here on retirement contracts and thats it. Don't believe the word salad from the players. Players like Connor Brown are frauds just here to be paid. Not even working for another contract. Players that are done,, period. This is the worst roster in years that we started the season with. Guys like J Skinner and lol arvidsson were never going to fly on a contender. They were never going to be players that could handle the fishbowl.

Even when the core was "appreciably" added to, and all those players you mention were individually playing significantly better than they have really at any point this year, they still found a way to be the worst team in the league for a month where it didn't look like they even knew the basics of how to play the game.

We can go back and forth until the cows come home on theories of the exact cause, but it's wasted ink and time. The simple fact is they do this every year. No matter the coach, no matter the roster, no matter how well they played last week, last year, or last month, no matter the goalie, no matter the age of the roster, the speed of the roster, the depth or the support players, this team does this every single year, and that's just a fact.

We like to mock the "there's something in the water" line, but at the end of the day it's just true.

 

[brentashton]

Stu is a helluva lot closer to needing to figure out what his life is going to be after hockey than he is to winning a Vezina somewhere else.

California Closets estimator/installer.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Even when the core was "appreciably" added to, and all those players you mention were individually playing significantly better than they have really at any point this year, they still found a way to be the worst team in the league for a month where it didn't look like they even knew the basics of how to play the game.

We can go back and forth until the cows come home on theories of the exact cause, but it's wasted ink and time. The simple fact is they do this every year. No matter the coach, no matter the roster, no matter how well they played last week, last year, or last month, no matter the goalie, no matter the age of the roster, the speed of the roster, the depth or the support players, this team does this every single year, and that's just a fact.

We like to mock the "there's something in the water" line, but at the end of the day it's just true.

What the braintrust did this offseason was another dunce case of K Lowe going looking for beans. "we have all these D now" that sort of thing.

The stupidest thing an org could possibly do is lose several of their prospects, their very best young players, in one offseason and replace them with guys that have never even been on a winner, or are old, or injured and shouldn't even be here.

Pods was never going to move the envelope here because he's a bust. He's tried to do what he can but a Russian player that was drafted on offence. When that dries up for Russian players they're dead in the water. They cease eventually.

J Skinner you know my predictions. Was never going to be much here. Arvid was only going to be a joke and impersonation here after back surgeries.

Emberson has been surprisingly good. Team overall has down about as good as can be expected. That the team even started the season and resigned guys like Ryan, Brown, Perry, Janmark (maybe even Henrique) was questionable. Players too old or not with the right competitive juices anymore. They just can't get it done anymore.

The players that could be better that are not being that is a shortlist. Its basically Nuge, Hyman, Booch. Thats about it. 8-10 players shouldn't even be here and only are becasue this org uses a dartboard to figure out who to get.

 

[K1984]

What the braintrust did this offseason was another dunce case of K Lowe going looking for beans. "we have all these D now" that sort of thing.

The stupidest thing an org could possibly do is lose several of their prospects, their very best young players, in one offseason and replace them with guys that have never even been on a winner, or are old, or injured and shouldn't even be here.

Pods was never going to move the envelope here because he's a bust. He's tried to do what he can but a Russian player that was drafted on offence. When that dries up for Russian players they're dead in the water. They cease eventually.

J Skinner you know my predictions. Was never going to be much here. Arvid was only going to be a joke and impersonation here after back surgeries.

Emberson has been surprisingly good. Team overall has down about as good as can be expected. That the team even started the season and resigned guys like Ryan, Brown, Perry, Janmark (maybe even Henrique) was a joke. Players too old or not with the right competitive juices anymore. They just can't get it done anymore.

The players that could be better that are not being that is a shortlist. Its basically Nuge, Hyman, Booch. Thats about it. 8-10 players shouldn't even be here and only are becasue this org uses a dartboard to figure out who to get.

Nipping around the edges looking for a different answer to the same problems every year. Most of the players you mention weren't here when we decided to not play until about December 1 last year. None of them were here in 2021 when we did the same thing. Ditto for 2022 and 2023.

There is a cultural cancer in the organization that causes this, nit picking who is on the 4th line or the press box doesn't change that. When posters here wonder annually why we do this when it happens every year, it just ends up being an exercise in each individual picking out the thing wrong that they want it to be (goalies, coach, Bouchard, JJ, whatever). The simple fact remains that there is a near 23 man collapse every. single. season, and the depth players we happen to have this year vs. last don't change that.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Even when the core was "appreciably" added to, and all those players you mention were individually playing significantly better than they have really at any point this year, they still found a way to be the worst team in the league for a month where it didn't look like they even knew the basics of how to play the game.

We can go back and forth until the cows come home on theories of the exact cause, but it's wasted ink and time. The simple fact is they do this every year. No matter the coach, no matter the roster, no matter how well they played last week, last year, or last month, no matter the goalie, no matter the age of the roster, the speed of the roster, the depth or the support players, this team does this every single year, and that's just a fact.

We like to mock the "there's something in the water" line, but at the end of the day it's just true.

I don't know about doing this every year, in that...I'm not sure they can come back this time. I'm not sure how you don't fire the coach at a bare minimum... It stopped the bleeding last time and we haven't bled this hard in years.

It's amazing that some people, though fewer and fewer, are still saying we don't need a goalie, and some idiot Skinner simps even seem to be loving the team's implosion because now people can assign blame to other members of the roster... These are the type of people recruited by cults and the flat earth society. They're not even Oiler fans anymore, just groupies of some mediocre goalie, or just totally bereft of critical thought and reliant on the team's propaganda puppets for their opinion.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nipping around the edges looking for a different answer to the same problems every year. Most of the players you mention weren't here when we decided to not play until about December 1 last year. None of them were here in 2021 when we did the same thing. Ditto for 2022 and 2023.

There is a cultural cancer in the organization that causes this, nit picking who is on the 4th line or the press box doesn't change that. When posters here wonder annually why we do this when it happens every year, it just ends up being an exercise in each individual picking out the thing wrong that they want it to be (goalies, coach, Bouchard, JJ, whatever). The simple fact remains that there is a near 23 man collapse every. single. season, and the depth players we happen to have this year vs. last don't change that.

The cultural Cancer around here is the org not improving the club appreciably. I spelled it out. Most clubs make quantum additions. Players that can actually make a difference and premium players. Its how you turn a bad team or middle team into good.

The repeated movie here is the management adding deckchairs every season while losing better players. It started when this dunce org moved out Hall and Eberle because they figured they could get better. Thats the cancer.

Last offseason it was losing a potential star player in Holloway (now confirmed) a possible good D, A vet D, losing McLeod a completely serviceable player that plays special teams as well, and losing a meat and potatoes Foegele that you need in a lineup.

The cultural cancer with this org is its basically one that gives lip service to fans who eat it up and somehow ask for more. Its why I stopped buying tickets decades ago. After 2006 and losing that whole team I was done. You took a different path and kept spending. Good on you I guess. You still believe.

 

[K1984]

The cultural Cancer around here is the org not improving the club appreciably. I spelled it out. Most clubs make quantum additions. Players that can actually make a difference and premium players. Its how you turn a bad team or middle team into good.

The repeated movie here is the management adding deckchairs every season while losing better players. It started when this dunce org moved out Hall and Eberle because they figured they could get better. Thats the cancer.

Last offseason it was losing a potential star player in Holloway (now confirmed) a possible good D, A vet D, losing McLeod a completely serviceable player that plays special teams as well, and losing a meat and potatoes Foegele that you need in a lineup.

The cultural cancer with this org is its basically one that gives lip service to fans who eat it up and somehow ask for more. Its why I stopped buying tickets decades ago. After 2006 and losing that whole team I was done. You took a different path and kept spending. Good on you I guess. You still believe.

Well we made quantum additions that at the time played well and it still happened, do don't think that's it.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

California Closets estimator/installer.

I was gonna say moustache model.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Stu is a helluva lot closer to needing to figure out what his life is going to be after hockey than he is to winning a Vezina somewhere else.

I honestly think he's in the AHL by the middle of next season. He's been regressing over the last two seasons, and now the D is no longer able to protect him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Team seems to suck after long breaks, but this group should have figured things out by now.

A whole lot of players are having poor or disappointing seasons right now:
- Bouchard: 3rd in team points, but nowhere near last year's output
- RNH: on pace for about 50 points
- Hyman: didn't expect him to replicate 54 goals, but he'll likely only end up around 25-30g and about 50points
- J. Skinner: I think we all expected him to score at a 30 goal pace playing with one of the 2 big guns, but he has 11 goals in 53 games (pace for 17 goals in 82 games)
- Arvidsson: Expected 25g and 50-60point pace but he's on pace for about half of those numbers
- Henrique: on pace for 10 goals, 20ish points; doesn't look like the same player as last year

And lastly, I have to say it: this is McDavid's worst season since his rookie year. On pace for 30+goals and 80+ assists, which are still top-tier numbers, but especially in terms of goal production, he hasn't seemed to be able to beat goalies with his shot consistently last season, or this one. Went from 64goals in 82 games in 2022-23, to only 55goals in the last 131 games. Why has he regressed from a 60 goal scorer back to a 30-35 goal scorer? I have no idea.

Sorry man but some of this is like somebody playing EANHL or something, making trades and just counting goals.

J Skinner was NEVER going to be 30 goals here and I was betting people he wouldn't get to 20. Arvid 25G's you gotta be kidding.

What these totals reveal is posters not understanding that its one thing to play on garbage clubs that don't give a toss about D like Buffalo and having high event dozen goal games almost every night. Of course in that garbage environment of greenlighting anything J Skinner can get pts. Hell, Tage was putting up massive numbers. It doesn't mean those same players can do that on a good club, but if I'm betting its Tage, not Skinner.

Arvid was off two back surgeries My over and under was whether he could even go 50 games. Well he's done that but while getting tossed around and flying into boards. The guy was never going to get 25 G or 50pts here. Watch him out there and he's worse than Yamamoto being punted all over.

This was another season of the Oilers brass going on dunce fishing trips. Hey lets get Milan Lucic "he'll replace the Hall offense" or lets get Neale, he almost won a cup once....Lets go get Turris, he was good once. So much material with this org. So many burned cookies.

These are dumb ass fishing trips teams shouldn't go on. We just got more Connor Browns in the offseason. We didn't have enough, lol.

 

[iCanada]

Dubnyk never had the arrogance and lack of awareness Stu has. Skinner has convinced himself he’s an elite goalie and the reason he can’t stop a puck is someone else’s fault. I never saw that attitude in Dubnyk. Dubnyk had some good years after he left here, there was some talent there. Skinner relies on being big and hoping the puck hits him some times.

Also like - Dubnyk was also never actually statistically bad.

If Skinner had a .920 ain't no one saying shit.

Also keep in mind... Dubnyk was posting .920s while his our top centers were a soon to be fired into the sun, the shell of Horcoff, and a rookie RNH.

Meanwhile his defense core until the trade deadline was this;

Smid - Petry
Schultz - Schultz
Peckham - Fistric

Then Smid got injured and we acquired Whitney.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Luckily the star goalie Skinner will get the next start!

Gonna be a lot of Habs fans in attendance rubbing their hands together. This could get ugly. Incoming!!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Also like - Dubnyk was also never actually statistically bad.


Meanwhile his defense core until the trade deadline was this;

Smid - Petry
Schultz - Schultz
Peckham - Fistric

Then Smid got injured and we acquired Whitney.

Thanks for the deep seated memories stashed away in a closet in my mind never to be remembered again. haha

holy f***. Peckham, Fistric. What could possibly go wrong. Schultz-Jultz. Make it go away....

This org abuses its fans with this shit.

I liked Petry. Defended him a lot here. I wasn't a Dub fan. But man that D...

On a more serious note I don't think you can compare save or GAA metrics across time frame as theres more scoring in this decade. just saying.

 

[iCanada]

Thanks for the deep seated memories stashed away in a closet in my mind never to be remembered again. haha

holy f***. Peckham, Fistric. What could possibly go wrong. Schultz-Jultz. Make it go away....

This org abuses its fans with this shit.

I liked Petry. Defended him a lot here. I wasn't a Dub fan. But man that D...

On a more serious note I don't think you can compare save or GAA metrics across time frame as theres more scoring in this decade. just saying.

Lol Peckham Fistric is PTSD inducing. Atleast they hit things, Schultz squared was just a tire fire.

Fair point in sv% / GA - In the very least it's reasonable to compare relative to peers - Dubnyk was top 10 league wide in both categories and Skinners' barely top 60.

 

[elmeroil]

I'd legit take Joseph or Roli at their current age over Skinner right now. Could they actually have worse movement?

 

[rboomercat90]

Sadly, the best thing that could happen to the team is Skinner imploding.

A single strong start from him is going to give management and the media all the ammo they need to say "look, he's good again problem solved."

What difference does it make now? We’ve got 1 game left before the trade deadline. If management hasn’t concluded by now (especially after the last few games) that goaltending isn’t an issue that needs to be addressed immediately then Skinner getting lit up by Montreal tomorrow isn’t going to change anything. That the team sent Stauffer and Gage out during the second intermission last night to try to calm fans down after both goalies got shelled in back to back games speaks volumes on what their thought are and was the most disturbing thing I’ve seen from this organization in years.

 

[brentashton]

Gonna be a lot of Habs fans in attendance rubbing their hands together. This could get ugly. Incoming!!

Mon dieu!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sadly, the best thing that could happen to the team is Skinner imploding.

A single strong start from him is going to give management and the media all the ammo they need to say "look, he's good again problem solved."

Tell me where you've been in February? heh

How many times is needed. Rhetorical question, with this org its infinite.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Mon dieu!

Watch Skinner play one good game just to stay in the catbird seat.

Looks like the Drai compliments were too much for Pickard.

I didn't end up enjoying the game.

Montreal are hard to know what happens. Not elite scoring talent so can occasionally hit a wall and then another game fill the net. Hard to call.

Really both clubs should solve anybody wanting to bet on this stuff. I never would.