FPHL, SPHL Expansions

[MajorJuniorFan98]

Well lots circulating this past week with possible FPHL expansions. Just wanted to share some thoughts and see what you all might think!

FPHL currently sitting at 9 teams. Bloomington, Illinois was suppose to make it 10 teams, however due to Covid-19 they pushed back to 2021-22. Fraser, Michigan is now being targeted as the "10th" expansion team with a possible 11th team in Virginia, Ohio or Pennsylvania. 11 teams creates lots of issues with the schedule. Wonder if they push for 12 teams or drop an expansion team to sit at 10. Some rumblings have it that the FPHL will have 12 teams in 2020-21 with a possible 12th team going into Savannah, Georgia and playing out of the Martin Luther King Jr Arena. Savannah getting a new rink however on 2022 with hopes of an ECHL squad.

I think Savannah would be a great addition as it is a hidden hockey gem HOWEVER I know SPHL is also interested in that market. A current FPHL owner expressed how for the 2020-21 season they wanted 14 teams. Will be interesting to see.

Any thoughts? Perhaps if any truth to the rumours or maybe possible destinations.

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[JMCx4]

Sources? We Minor Pro Leagues forum denizens are very structured in our speculations.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Sources?

The only thing I have seen linking Fraser, MI to the FPHL was a Bus League Hockey article. They're not exactly reliable. They do often get things right, but it is usually a 50/50. For every Battle Creek they get, they plop out a Troy.

I have never seen anything linking Savannah to the FPHL. It is a non-starter. They already started an arena set aside for the ECHL. They will not take on a team that will be nothing more than a placeholder. Especially considering Martin Luther King Jr Arena would need a ton of upgrades just to be able to host regular hockey.

The FPHL mentioned they were looking to get to 16 teams two years ago. They then had to create a team out of thin air in order to get to an even 10. Take everything they say with a grain of salt.

My thoughts? Bus League Hockey is a supplementary source, not a main source given their prediction record. And considering they are the only ones to have ever mentioned some of the stuff you're quoting, you're to need a lot more in order to not have this thread categorized as unsubstantiated claims...

 

[JMCx4]

... The only thing I have seen linking Fraser, MI to the FPHL was a Bus League Hockey article. They're not exactly reliable. They do often get things right, but it is usually a 50/50. ...

So if the hockey blogging doesn't work out for them, they'd have a good shot at becoming chief meteorologists at TV stations in dozens of small to medium-sized markets around the U.S.. And honestly, isn't that a more hopeful future that being a hockey coach?

 

[MajorJuniorFan98]

Source would be a Minor pro podcast on YouTube. Locals in Savannah reaching out.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Source would be a Minor pro podcast on YouTube. Locals in Savannah reaching out.

Considering they are the only source reporting it, I would put it at slim to none. And that is after the basic logic that no team is going to go there as a placeholder, the mandatory facility upgrades, etc. all the other things we mentioned.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Maybe we shouldn't go all crazy with pie-in-the-sky garbage league expansion ideas that are little more than unsubstantiated rumours when it's looking like better than a 50/50 shot that neither of these leagues plays a 2020-21 season?

Just a thought.

 

[Atlantian]

Love hearing Savannah as a possible location for an expansion team but I seriously doubt any of the three possible leagues go there before the new arena is built. Even then, as much as I’d love to see a second ECHL team in my state, it’d likely go to the SPHL. They will definitely get a team once the arena is built. It’s just a matter of what league are potential owners willing to foot the bill for.

 

[Atlantian]

I seriously doubt any of the three possible leagues go there before the new arena is built.

Actually I take that back. We all know the Fed at this point. If/When they get desperate, I could see them trying to weasel into the current arena to fill a team slot. However, I don’t think it is likely to happen.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Love hearing Savannah as a possible location for an expansion team but I seriously doubt any of the three possible leagues go there before the new arena is built. Even then, as much as I’d love to see a second ECHL team in my state, it’d likely go to the SPHL. They will definitely get a team once the arena is built. It’s just a matter of what league are potential owners willing to foot the bill for.

Savannah should be a decent AA market, whether that means ECHL or SPHL. It reminds me culturally and economically of a smaller Charleston, and the location makes a TON of sense for the ECHL's southeastern corridor. They would have an ideal travel arrangement, and the benefit of a new arena. Get their feet under them with a strong start, develop rivalries with the nearby competition in SC/GA/FL, and try to make a long-term go of it as the economy builds back up.

 

[JMCx4]

Savannah should be a decent AA market, whether that means ECHL or SPHL. ...

Flattering the SPHL by tagging them as "AA" will not get you free merch nor ticket discounts.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Flattering the SPHL by tagging them as "AA" will not get you free merch nor ticket discounts.

Yeah, I actually did hesitate on that one. SPHL is like A 1/2.

 

[battra]

I wonder if the SPHL or FPHL brand of hockey would do well in suburban STL.

Are they a bit fighty?

 

[210]

I wonder if the SPHL or FPHL brand of hockey would do well in suburban STL.

Are they a bit fighty?

The CHL didn't work there (St Loius Chill), so I suspect low-level hockey is no-go there.

 

[210]

Yeah, I actually did hesitate on that one. SPHL is like A 1/2.

No, it's "A". The fact it's better than the FPHL says more about the Federal League than it does the SPHL.

 

[JMCx4]

The CHL didn't work there (St Loius Chill), so I suspect low-level hockey is no-go there.

Correction: St. Charles Chill. But @battra knew that already.

 

[battra]

The CHL didn't work there (St Loius Chill), so I suspect low-level hockey is no-go there.

There were a few issues with that team....apart from it being total s show....

(If you listen to The Fourth Line Voice Podcast you'll hear about it...)

The big one is that the team was terrible.

Then it was coupled with ticket prices being comparable to Blue ticket pricing at the time, if you went the StubHub route. The Blues weren't selling well then.

The team did almost no press ahead of time. They should've pushed back the start date by a season rather than having no press until August.

I mean, I can go on and on about why that team failed.

Oh yeah, they only should've opened the lower level of the arena to give a better fan experience, etc.

But I will mention that the River City Rascals of the Frontier League (indie minor league baseball) succeeded there for almost two decades and the Missouri River Otters did fairly well for 7 seasons.

Then couple that with right now, the Blues are selling out every single game and we have a season ticket holder waiting list. With Peoria, QC, etc in the SPHL, that creates a good division that'll cut down on costs.

But as for the Chill, they were poorly run and poorly time. It's a recipe for failure.

Oh yeah, last bit, I am a HUGE fan of minor league sports and I checked out of that team roundabout January because it wasn't fun.

 

[battra]

But anyhoo...

Are these leagues a bit fighty?

 

[NJ Fan 12]

Savannah should be a decent AA market, whether that means ECHL or SPHL. It reminds me culturally and economically of a smaller Charleston, and the location makes a TON of sense for the ECHL's southeastern corridor. They would have an ideal travel arrangement, and the benefit of a new arena. Get their feet under them with a strong start, develop rivalries with the nearby competition in SC/GA/FL, and try to make a long-term go of it as the economy builds back up.

Find this hard to believe given the current political climate in Savannah. It appears the mayor - a transplanted New York Democrat - is more concerned with national politics and utilizing the virus for maximum political play. It's hard to imagine they would be seeking any type of professional sports/entertainment ventures any time soon.

 

[JMCx4]

But anyhoo...

Are these leagues a bit fighty?

If by "fighty" you mean they cater to physical entertainment, then "Yes" for the FPHL. The SPHL has been leaning away from that aspect of the game for the last few seasons, but it remains part of the product especially between rival teams (geographical or historical).

 

[battra]

If by "fighty" you mean they cater to physical entertainment, then "Yes" for the FPHL. The SPHL has been leaning away from that aspect of the game for the last few seasons, but it remains part of the product especially between rival teams (geographical or historical).

I think that's the kind of league that's going to succeed in St. Charles...

When the Otters were drawing 6K a night, there were also a goodly number of fights.

Do they have veteran rules or is it old school?

(I know next to nothing about these leagues.)

 

[JMCx4]

... Do they have veteran rules or is it old school?

(I know next to nothing about these leagues.)

SPHL has a 3 vet/roster rule, 900 games max total. A veteran is a player with 224 games or 4 full seasons of pro experience.

The FPHL also has a veteran player designation, but I haven't kept up with their ever-changing rules.

 

[battra]

SPHL has a 3 vet/roster rule, 900 games max total. A veteran is a player with 224 games or 4 full seasons of pro experience.

The FPHL also has a veteran player designation, but I haven't kept up with their ever-changing rules.

Ugh.

I hate Veteran rules.

 

[JMCx4]

I think that's the kind of league that's going to succeed in St. Charles...

When the Otters were drawing 6K a night, there were also a goodly number of fights. ...

Different era, different market conditions. Fighting or not, there would need to be a committed local ownership team, which was the root issue in the failure of the Chill. As far as I can tell, the partnership formed by Legacy Ice Foundation with the STL Blues & Lindenwood University in the Centene Community Ice Center swept up all of the hockey business enthusiasts with serious money around town. And another key factor you know well: There remains that invisible line down the middle of the Missouri River that divides St. Louis & St. Charles by more than just muddy water. The area's hockey community is much stronger than during the days of the River Otters & of the Chill, but that strength has even deeper roots in STL County now.

 

[battra]

Different era, different market conditions. Fighting or not, there would need to be a committed local ownership team, which was the root issue in the failure of the Chill. As far as I can tell, the partnership formed by Legacy Ice Foundation with the STL Blues & Lindenwood University in the Centene Community Ice Center swept up all of the hockey business enthusiasts with serious money around town. And another key factor you know well: There remains that invisible line down the middle of the Missouri River that divides St. Louis & St. Charles by more than just muddy water. The area's hockey community is much stronger than during the days of the River Otters & of the Chill, but that strength has even deeper roots in STL County now.

OK fine.

Put it in the Chaf.