World Cup: Four Nations Tournament-Team Canada

[jj cale]

Wonder how long the training camp is for teams to get prepared for this because you sure have to hit the ground running for this 4 team compressed thing/tournament.

Canada leads off with Sweden on the 12th, Yanks on the 15th, and then the Finns on the 17th with the final being on the 20th.

 

[JackSlater]

Makar was one of the first 6 players named to the team.

He was the only defenseman named, in fact.

You're right.

 

[jj cale]

It's difficult not to look at the potential lineups of the teams and not think....." gee, the U.S team should win this" It's pretty much got no weakness across the board and filled with top end guys at all positions up and down the lineup and most importantly........pretty much every guy that will be there are in their primes. When you add it all up it's normally a recipe for success. Canada has a 1995 feel to it, caught in that space where some of it's key players are in their twilight years like Crosby/Marchand/Gretzky/Messier and with one section of the team massively wanting ( goaltending this year and defense in 95) Thankfully we won't be understaffed up front like in 95 with Kariya and Lemieux missing. Fingers crossed on Mcdavid though.........and every other key player, we simply can't afford any key injuries.

 

[Voight]

I would love to see Robert Thomas as well. Huge Rob Thom guy. Has not been a single mock roster of mine that's left him off and he's the obvious choice for 4th line center. With that being said, if he's injured, the next closest thing to his replacement would be Suzuki.

With Barzal and Thomas out, I wouldn't mind Scheifele as a winger for some added offence. I just don't want him as my 4th line center.

Couldn't agree more with Sam Bennett. He just doesn't belong there.

I have Johnston over Kyrou for the same reasons as Suzuki. I trust Johnston more with the puck and he fills the shooting role that Kyrou would provide. Additionally, we don't know what Johnston's ceiling is yet and I would like to see him groomed by Hockey Canada.

Given his GM is running Team Canada, I dont see how they leave Thomas off.

It seems Bennett is getting a cup winning boost from TA, ultimately I really dont think he makes the team.

 

[JackSlater]

Wonder how long the training camp is for teams to get prepared for this because you sure have to hit the ground running for this 4 team compressed thing/tournament.

Canada leads off with Sweden on the 12th, Yanks on the 15th, and then the Finns on the 17th with the final being on the 20th.

The NHL is running a few games on February 9, and almost everyone is playing on February 8.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The NHL is running a few games on February 9, and almost everyone is playing on February 8.

It's a big reason why I think the tournament will end up sloppy.

 

[JackSlater]

It's a big reason why I think the tournament will end up sloppy.

Yeah at least for the Olympics teams run a summer camp and historically the Canada/World Cup as well. This tournament occupies a weird space, in my opinion anyway. Sort of an upjumped all star game/tournament.... maybe more though. It's hard to know. The NHL could have just held another World Cup with national teams and had a better product but of course the NHL cannot do the simple and correct.

 

[Regal]

Several head scratchers:
I don’t think Barzal makes it with his injury and inconsistent play.

Scheifele’s had a great start to the season, but he’s not the type player I want in a 4th line role. Ideally, if Thomas is healthy, he’d be my 4th line option. If not, then Suzuki or ROR instead of Scheifele.

Bedard should definetly be in there instead of Stamkos.

Wyatt Johnston deserves a mention. He should be on here as the extra. He can fill the one-timer role on the 2nd PP instead of Stamkos and plays such a mature game for his age.

Johnston is an interesting one. He was one of the best 5v5 scorers in the second half of last year despite lower minutes, and was playing in all situations. He was 11th in 5v5 points from Jan 1st on (4th among Canadians) and 4th in primary 5v5 points (3rd among Canadians). Then he was the Stars best forward in the playoffs. But he’s been pretty mediocre to start the year just as he was last year. I’ve usually had him on my mock teams, but maybe he’s not quite consistent enough at a young age to make it. Though he might turn it around in the month before the team is named.

 

[JackSlater]

Johnston is an interesting one. He was one of the best 5v5 scorers in the second half of last year despite lower minutes, and was playing in all situations. He was 11th in 5v5 points from Jan 1st on (4th among Canadians) and 4th in primary 5v5 points (3rd among Canadians). Then he was the Stars best forward in the playoffs. But he’s been pretty mediocre to start the year just as he was last year. I’ve usually had him on my mock teams, but maybe he’s not quite consistent enough at a young age to make it. Though he might turn it around in the month before the team is named.

I really hoped that he'd start strong and make his way onto the team. You never know still but he hasn't scored much. I also like the focus on even strength scoring. Realistically only a handful of forwards on this team are going to play meaningful power play minutes. There are going to be forwards who play exclusively at even strength. It makes sense to judge them by their scoring at even strength and factor out power play scoring if they will not be on the power play anyway.

 

[Regal]

I really hoped that he'd start strong and make his way onto the team. You never know still but he hasn't scored much. I also like the focus on even strength scoring. Realistically only a handful of forwards on this team are going to play meaningful power play minutes. There are going to be forwards who play exclusively at even strength. It makes sense to judge them by their scoring at even strength and factor out power play scoring if they will not be on the power play anyway.

Yea, I thought his season last year felt very similar to Point’s sophomore year, where he stood out on a good team at ES while playing a strong all around game, then had a strong playoffs. I wasn’t expecting quite Point’s 3rd year breakout this year, as Dallas doesn’t have Tampa’s PP, but I figured a bigger role and first unit PP time would put him in the point per game range. I guess we’ll see if he turns it on.

And I agree on the PP scoring. We know McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby and Point will get a ton of the PP time, Reinhart will probably be net front and Marner will get lots of time if he makes it as well. It’s one of the reasons I’m not a big fan of Suzuki on the team. He’s probably hurt a bit by his team but he’s never been an efficient 5v5 scorer and his increase last year was almost all due to the PP.

 

[StreetHawk]

It's difficult not to look at the potential lineups of the teams and not think....." gee, the U.S team should win this" It's pretty much got no weakness across the board and filled with top end guys at all positions up and down the lineup and most importantly........pretty much every guy that will be there are in their primes. When you add it all up it's normally a recipe for success. Canada has a 1995 feel to it, caught in that space where some of it's key players are in their twilight years like Crosby/Marchand/Gretzky/Messier and with one section of the team massively wanting ( goaltending this year and defense in 95) Thankfully we won't be understaffed up front like in 95 with Kariya and Lemieux missing. Fingers crossed on Mcdavid though.........and every other key player, we simply can't afford any key injuries.

The USA has no big holes. But, the difference in any position, be it at C, W, or D, is much smaller than Canada's difference in Net vs USA.

 

[Nucks2001]

The USA has no big holes. But, the difference in any position, be it at C, W, or D, is much smaller than Canada's difference in Net vs USA.

I have to disagree. Center wise:

McDavid HUGE GAP > Matthews
MacKinnon HUGE GAP > Eichel
Crosby > Hughes
Point > Larkin

The US has slightly better wingers. I'd say both countries are even defensively. The USA has Fox, McAvoy and Hughes, but I'd say Canada's 5th, 6th and 7th defencemen are much better + the Makar factor.

On paper, both countries are even imo. Canada's wildcard is they have more game-changers and experienced players. The USA's wildcard is obviously their goaltending and more skilled wingers

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I have to disagree. Center wise:

McDavid HUGE GAP > Matthews
MacKinnon HUGE GAP > Eichel
Crosby > Hughes
Point > Larkin

The US has slightly better wingers. I'd say both countries are even defensively. The USA has Fox, McAvoy and Hughes, but I'd say Canada's 5th, 6th and 7th defencemen are much better + the Makar factor.

On paper, both countries are even imo. Canada's wildcard is they have more game-changers and experienced players. The USA's wildcard is obviously their goaltending and more skilled wingers

But is that gap at center bigger than hypothetically like the 2nd or 3rd best goaltender to the 10th or 11th? That’s what he’s stating.

 

[Regal]

But is that gap at center bigger than hypothetically like the 2nd or 3rd best goaltender to the 10th or 11th? That’s what he’s stating.

The thing with goaltending at least is there’s probably a lot more variance over a small sample than other positions.

 

[Mathieukferland]

I have to disagree. Center wise:

McDavid HUGE GAP > Matthews
MacKinnon HUGE GAP > Eichel
Crosby > Hughes
Point > Larkin

The US has slightly better wingers. I'd say both countries are even defensively. The USA has Fox, McAvoy and Hughes, but I'd say Canada's 5th, 6th and 7th defencemen are much better + the Makar factor.

On paper, both countries are even imo. Canada's wildcard is they have more game-changers and experienced players. The USA's wildcard is obviously their goaltending and more skilled wingers

I still lean Canada slightly, because their best players have taken their game to another level when if matters; whether that be playoffs or internationally, Crosby, Makar, MacKinnon are all playoff and international match winners, whereas Matthews, Hughes, Hellebuyck all regress in the playoffs and have not won anything beyond U18 internationally; I’ve made this point before but there are a lot more serial winners in the Canada team than the US team, which is why I still favour them slightly. It is very tight though and the US golden generation of 1997-2001 is at their peak at the moment

 

[Leafs98]

I have to disagree. Center wise:

McDavid HUGE GAP > Matthews
MacKinnon HUGE GAP > Eichel
Crosby > Hughes
Point > Larkin

The US has slightly better wingers. I'd say both countries are even defensively. The USA has Fox, McAvoy and Hughes, but I'd say Canada's 5th, 6th and 7th defencemen are much better + the Makar factor.

On paper, both countries are even imo. Canada's wildcard is they have more game-changers and experienced players. The USA's wildcard is obviously their goaltending and more skilled wingers

And special teams. These games will be decided by PP goals and timely saves. Matthews is fighting it right now. The Canadian PP is deadly.

 

[therealdeal]

I think you can a player to player comparison against any other team out there, the reality is the margin between any two teams now is minuscule. USA looks freaking awesome right now. Sweden is gonna be incredible, Finland are always a challenge and play together like they’re one brain.

That being said, I love our chances, I love our players, we’re still the best (in my very biased opinion).

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I still lean Canada slightly, because their best players have taken their game to another level when if matters; whether that be playoffs or internationally, Crosby, Makar, MacKinnon are all playoff and international match winners, whereas Matthews, Hughes, Hellebuyck all regress in the playoffs and have not won anything beyond U18 internationally; I’ve made this point before but there are a lot more serial winners in the Canada team than the US team, which is why I still favour them slightly. It is very tight though and the US golden generation of 1997-2001 is at their peak at the moment

I think this is fair. If you look up and down the Canadian lineup you see players that have elevated their games at crunch time and are winners. The U.S. lacks that, which is why I think they may include a guy like Patrick Kane even though his best days are behind him. Talent-wise, the U.S. is right there though.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think this is fair. If you look up and down the Canadian lineup you see players that have elevated their games at crunch time and are winners. The U.S. lacks that, which is why I think they may include a guy like Patrick Kane even though his best days are behind him. Talent-wise, the U.S. is right there though.

I feel like it's more of a mixed record than my friend Mathieu stated.

Tkachuk has that reputation. Eichel has that reputation. There are others too like Fox, Swagman, Oettinger.

Then on the Canada side you have players like Marner, Tavares, Nurse who the opposite applies for. And as much as I feel like McDavid is good in the playoffs, there are people who still lament his lack of a Cup at this point and also his impact in those last few Cup final games.

I generally agree Canada's team has more winners and done more winning. It's a more decorated team with better top end talent and a more experienced core of star players than the USA has, but I don't believe the gap in this regard is more than marginal.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Don't think Owen Power is ready for a spot at this stage

Not ready for 8th Dman?

 

[Nucks2001]

Not ready for 8th Dman?

Rather have Owen Power over Darnell Nurse… I hope those rumours aren’t true

 

[JackSlater]

Whether Canada's team is more talented or less talented than USA doesn't really matter. The point is that it is close. Canada's goal should be to produce far more talent than anyone else. It's not even about other countries getting better, as Canada from a decade ago, give or take years in either direction, would easily be better than any team that any country could ice today. There is no better method to win tournaments than to show up with by far the best roster, hence Canada's overwhelming best on best record. Canada's player development has been too poor for a long time now.

Yea, I thought his season last year felt very similar to Point’s sophomore year, where he stood out on a good team at ES while playing a strong all around game, then had a strong playoffs. I wasn’t expecting quite Point’s 3rd year breakout this year, as Dallas doesn’t have Tampa’s PP, but I figured a bigger role and first unit PP time would put him in the point per game range. I guess we’ll see if he turns it on.

And I agree on the PP scoring. We know McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby and Point will get a ton of the PP time, Reinhart will probably be net front and Marner will get lots of time if he makes it as well. It’s one of the reasons I’m not a big fan of Suzuki on the team. He’s probably hurt a bit by his team but he’s never been an efficient 5v5 scorer and his increase last year was almost all due to the PP.

The power play is going to be built around McDavid, MacKinnon, and Makar. Those are the three best players on the team and are a given. Other than that you're looking at probably Point and a net front guy. I'd like them to send Crosby out to take the shift after the power play honestly. I'd also hoped that Konecny could get off to a strong start because he's been a strong even strength scorer for years and brings some grit beyond that of a typical scoring winger.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Not ready for 8th Dman?

Keep in mind you're quoting a post from before the season and I do think he has played well this year. He's a bubble guy for me now.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I feel like it's more of a mixed record than my friend Mathieu stated.

Tkachuk has that reputation. Eichel has that reputation. There are others too like Fox, Swagman, Oettinger.

Then on the Canada side you have players like Marner, Tavares, Nurse who the opposite applies for. And as much as I feel like McDavid is good in the playoffs, there are people who still lament his lack of a Cup at this point and also his impact in those last few Cup final games.

I generally agree Canada's team has more winners and done more winning. It's a more decorated team with better top end talent and a more experienced core of star players than the USA has, but I don't believe the gap in this regard is more than marginal.

"Swagman".....I like it.

 

[jj cale]

"Swagman".....I like it.

That is a good one.