Former NHL defenceman Slater Koekkoek reveals how a meeting with former GM Ken Holland made him walk away from the league

[Pens x]

Players are such wusses.

 

[La Bamba]

I was expecting so much more when I opened this thread. Disappointed with how soft people are. Dude was lucky he even got to make as much money as he did with his level of skill

 

[kook10]

Kenny's comments didn't feel good?

I suspect the money helps with broader life goals too.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I was expecting so much more when I opened this thread. Disappointed with how soft people are. Dude was lucky he even got to make as much money as he did with his level of skill

Ya soft is probably being polite on your part.

 

[dirtydanglez]

i don't see the problem here

 

[snag]

First sentence in interview: "I think back at this as just a beautiful moment in my life..."

This sets the tone and the context for the rest willing to look at it for what it is.

Culminating with "that was ultimately a huge moment for me."

/End of thread

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I am so confused by the overwhelming negative reaction to this thread calling him soft, and all the other insults piled on...

I didn't read it as Koekkoek was offended or insulted by the comments. I think he just took it to heart that he was a warm body on the ice and realized it wasn't worth all the work, injury, and commitment just to be a middle of the pack guy. I'm sure he'd much rather have time to spend with friends and family and not get beat up his body.

His wife seems to make a lot of money, he probably has some good money left from his career.

 

[BLNY]

However there was a nothing wrong with digging ditches. Nor is there a problem with aspiring to get that job .

No, but it in the context of the quote it's being used as an insult and implying that he's not capable of anything more than that.

 

[snag]

No, but it in the context of the quote it's being used as an insult and implying that he's not capable of anything more than that.

He wanted more ice time. He was told point blank why he wasn't getting it.
He took it not as an insult but as a motive for reflection and inspiration to find a means to make an impact with his life.

This reminds me now of the charge by some people to rename the Eskimos to the Elks.....even though those that should be the ones offended weren't, but some people decided to take the torch without invitation or support on their behalf.

KK sees it as a positive.....it isn't really your place to assign it as a negative.

 

[BLNY]

He wanted more ice time. He was told point blank why he wasn't getting it.
He took it not as an insult but as a motive for reflection and inspiration to find a means to make an impact with his life.

This reminds me now of the charge by some people to rename the Eskimos to the Elks.....even though those that should be the ones offended weren't, but some people decided to take the torch without invitation or support on their behalf.

KK sees it as a positive.....it isn't really your place to assign it as a negative.

That he took the high road and saw as the impetus to switch gears in his life doesn't mean Holland meant it as a positive. In no other place of work would what Holland did be acceptable. While a lesser part of it, it's still part of the culture stigma the NHL is losing.

 

[AM]

No, but it in the context of the quote it's being used as an insult and implying that he's not capable of anything more than that.

That is an assumption, the context would have to be supplied in full.

 

[Bond]

That he took the high road and saw as the impetus to switch gears in his life doesn't mean Holland meant it as a positive. In no other place of work would what Holland did be acceptable. While a lesser part of it, it's still part of the culture stigma the NHL is losing.

That isn’t really true. It’s basically a mediocre performance review wrapped up in hockey talk.

 

[bucks_oil]

First sentence in interview: "I think back at this as just a beautiful moment in my life..."

This sets the tone and the context for the rest willing to look at it for what it is.

Culminating with "that was ultimately a huge moment for me."

/End of thread

No kidding... I expect most of the guys spouting off about "soft hockey players" didn't actually click the link and listen to Slater actually speaking.

He doesn't sound bitter to me at all... he sounds like a guy who got a tough, but important lesson from his GM... he didn't like hearing it, but it was ultimately very productive for him.

I once got similar advice "too small to compete at this level"... that A-hole coach went immediately on my $#!+ list... it only took me three more concussions, a broken collarbone and a torn ACL before I realized that maybe he was not trying to hurt my feelings.

That he took the high road and saw as the impetus to switch gears in his life doesn't mean Holland meant it as a positive. In no other place of work would what Holland did be acceptable. While a lesser part of it, it's still part of the culture stigma the NHL is losing.

I'd like to work for the people you work for... but as you rise up the ranks in any profession, it's sadly not true in my experience. You are working with very competitive people who want to win... and tact and empathy are not always universal management skills.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That he took the high road and saw as the impetus to switch gears in his life doesn't mean Holland meant it as a positive. In no other place of work would what Holland did be acceptable. While a lesser part of it, it's still part of the culture stigma the NHL is losing.

Lmao dude, that’s pro sports , not participation ribbon sports.
What a terrible take.

 

[Soundwave]

That he took the high road and saw as the impetus to switch gears in his life doesn't mean Holland meant it as a positive. In no other place of work would what Holland did be acceptable. While a lesser part of it, it's still part of the culture stigma the NHL is losing.

Pro sports simply doesn't work if you don't ever want to hear negative assessment of your performance and want everything sugar coated. It is what it is, it's not for everyone, it's not even for 99.9% of the population.

The pressure and expectations are intense, again it's not for the vast majority of people.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Olli Maatta has made a lot of money since he was a teenager just being a body on the ice.

I wouldn’t really consider it an insult, but I can see why he might have taken it that way.

Some people want to make a difference in their life

No, but it in the context of the quote it's being used as an insult and implying that he's not capable of anything more than that.

Work in HIGH level jobs and you’ll hear this kind of stuff all the time.

Some people just aren’t cut out to be the top 0.01% and that’s okay. But they need to hear it

 

[snag]

That he took the high road and saw as the impetus to switch gears in his life doesn't mean Holland meant it as a positive. In no other place of work would what Holland did be acceptable. While a lesser part of it, it's still part of the culture stigma the NHL is losing.

I take it as him being told something he always needed to be told but nobody around him ever told him that....and given the moment for some inflection he saw the truth of the situation and decided to do something about it. And that comes from people always pumping these guys tires....even if they aren't honest. And then people defending it as to protect certain sensitivities.

So which is worse?

Lying to a person to keep them in a position of failure (or medicrity)...or being the one person to tell them the truth in really, was about as deleicate way as possible in that they "didn't do anything positive on the ice....but not doing anything negative either" and in the process giving them that nudge to spread their wings.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Don't think Holland meant it as a compliment. He's essentially saying that he's a plug.

Pro Sports isn't like most industries though, your spot is constantly up for grabs. If you aren't making an impact, your spot will be given to someone else.

He essentially had a league minimum deal, missed a month with injury, came back, a couple months later was put on and cleared waivers, then retired before the next training camp with a year left on his deal.

 

[McOilers97]

I agree with those here that don't have too much issue with Holland saying that.

Ultimately, this is pro sports, and your ability to impact the game positively is what will get you playing time and paid extremely well. It's not exactly an insult to be told "you're not one of the 500 best hockey players in the world". In the grand scheme, Koekkoek was still a great hockey player, just not at the NHL level. Making it to the NHL and earning about $5m before age 30 is still a great accomplishment that will afford him a great life. It's all a matter of perspective, really.

 

[Leafshater67]

It’s not even that bad tbh. It’s better than the old “you’re a big guy, can you fight?”.

I get not wanting to continue but it’s honestly the truth for a lot of guys and embracing that role is important for many.

 

[black hawks matter]

If you can kill the clock and break even you are a net positive as a 4-6th dman or as a 8-12th fwd on a decent team. Even on a contender you need those guys in your 4th line and bottom pair

 

[3074326]

I’d take that as a compliment, but I have imposter syndrome. This comes off like a joke. It isn’t lol

 

[Brookbank]

I think Holland is a bad GM and had been for well over a decade prior to leaving Edmonton, but this seems like he was trying to motivate Koekkoek to figure out how to step his game up and make plays.

I remember in the early/mid 2000's, he was a God among men. He was the best GM and nobody came close. He was good and was pretty humble about it.

 

[SI90]

Can someone please set up a meeting between Ken Holland and Pierre Engvall? Thank you.

 

[bobbyb2009]

I take it as him being told something he always needed to be told but nobody around him ever told him that....and given the moment for some inflection he saw the truth of the situation and decided to do something about it. And that comes from people always pumping these guys tires....even if they aren't honest. And then people defending it as to protect certain sensitivities.

So which is worse?

Lying to a person to keep them in a position of failure (or medicrity)...or being the one person to tell them the truth in really, was about as deleicate way as possible in that they "didn't do anything positive on the ice....but not doing anything negative either" and in the process giving them that nudge to spread their wings.

We hear stories now, all the time, in different sports, about players being bullied by these big bad mean coaches/managers. In some cases, this is true and issues need to be addressed, no doubt t.

But I find so often, this narrative is complete bullshit. Not taking about the Mike Babcock stuff, but if people would actually sit down and listen to what is being said by the coach/manager to the player (again not talking about yelling and screaming or crashing and banging things), people would see truthful, honest, direct feedback and not some attempt to gain control over said player or for some nefarious thing.

I have heard complaints about coaches/managers all the time for saying things like, "you are not "good" enough right now to have earned the role, what are you willing to do about it." And instead of people realizing the coach has just said, "are you willing to sacrifice and do the work, even harder than everybody else to close the gap and create your own separation and success?," people start calling the coach a mean bully for telling a player he is not good enough etc.. Or worse. Clearly, the coach/manager who is trying to build a successful team would then go on to tell the player why they are not good enough and what they had to do to have a better chance, at least if the player showed the determination to do it.

Direct honesty is not bullying. If it is done to hurt someone rather than to help them; if it is done to control someone for some nefarious reason; then sure, it is a problem. But almost always a coach or manager NEEDS to be honest in order to let the player know where he stands and to show the player the pathway for achieving goals.

It is just sometimes, the player has very little chance to close that gap- so are they willing to understand their support role and embrace it, or will they mope around being the press box guy on an NHL team coming in and out of the lineup? Having players who know where they stand and accepting their roles are critical things that allow a team to build a successful culture. All teams need players in the bottom of their lineups who are willing to be happy to eat minutes and waste time to give others a chance to make a difference. But a team can't be successful with a bunch of whiners who can't be good team-mates despite having lesser roles than others. And the ONLY way to get there is to have the kind of conversations Holland had here, and then to see if the player can be the positive support guy or not.

In this case Slate KK took the honourable route and chose not to be either of those guys and move in in his life. Sounds like a good decision.