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Former Canucks Thread 2025-26 Edition

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i think that the culture of that team in general was loose cannons. i don’t remember a specific instance of clouts getting carried away emotionally but obviously we remember bertuzzi. to a degree jovo too. i feel like bert losing it on multiple occasions wasn’t helped by the culture of being a hothead in that room.

but i guess the high risk/high reward of bertuzzi only had a slim chance of ever working out in the longterm anyway.
 
vadim sharifijanov said:
i think that the culture of that team in general was loose cannons. i don’t remember a specific instance of clouts getting carried away emotionally but obviously we remember bertuzzi. to a degree jovo too. i feel like bert losing it on multiple occasions wasn’t helped by the culture of being a hothead in that room.

but i guess the high risk/high reward of bertuzzi only had a slim chance of ever working out in the longterm anyway.
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He had 2 monster years before he got paid. That helped him collect the big bucks in 03/04.


And we all know how that played out…
 
vadim sharifijanov said:
i think that the culture of that team in general was loose cannons. i don’t remember a specific instance of clouts getting carried away emotionally but obviously we remember bertuzzi. to a degree jovo too. i feel like bert losing it on multiple occasions wasn’t helped by the culture of being a hothead in that room.

but i guess the high risk/high reward of bertuzzi only had a slim chance of ever working out in the longterm anyway.
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Well I mean Bieksa endeared himself to Burke because he punched out a teammate outside of a bar. I think that a player prone to taking retaliatory penalties or (if applicable) suspensions is really the only criticism back in the day. A power forward like Bertuzzi being a hothead was even desirable. Like don’t poke the bear was a thing because players like prime Bertuzzi was at his best when physically engaged.

The “Gordie Howe Hat trick” was certainly a respected accomplishment and continues to this day. No team is saying no to the next Lucic or Wilson.
 
EpochLink said:
He had 2 monster years before he got paid. That helped him collect the big bucks in 03/04.


And we all know how that played out…
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F A N said:
Well I mean Bieksa endeared himself to Burke because he punched out a teammate outside of a bar. I think that a player prone to taking retaliatory penalties or (if applicable) suspensions is really the only criticism back in the day. A power forward like Bertuzzi being a hothead was even desirable. Like don’t poke the bear was a thing because players like prime Bertuzzi was at his best when physically engaged.

The “Gordie Howe Hat trick” was certainly a respected accomplishment and continues to this day. No team is saying no to the next Lucic or Wilson.
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i guess the difference to me is bieksa felt like a guy who had toughness and knew the appropriate place to exercise it. bertuzzi of course did one of the most high profile stupid things in the history of the sport.

not to discount that 18 months of incredible play by him, because that was maybe the most dominant stretch by any canuck ever. but right before it, he got himself suspended for ten games for third-man-inning in a fight between jovo and scott parker. and that run ended with him trashtalking minnesota fans and failing to back it up.

i guess i just felt like that was the temperament of that team. dumb and impulsive, and easily flustered in crunch time.

all that said, i liked clouts. i didn't think he was a good goalie but i enjoyed his spirit, even if i also think it was counterproductive to the team.
 
vadim sharifijanov said:
i guess the difference to me is bieksa felt like a guy who had toughness and knew the appropriate place to exercise it. bertuzzi of course did one of the most high profile stupid things in the history of the sport.

not to discount that 18 months of incredible play by him, because that was maybe the most dominant stretch by any canuck ever. but right before it, he got himself suspended for ten games for third-man-inning in a fight between jovo and scott parker. and that run ended with him trashtalking minnesota fans and failing to back it up.

i guess i just felt like that was the temperament of that team. dumb and impulsive, and easily flustered in crunch time.

all that said, i liked clouts. i didn't think he was a good goalie but i enjoyed his spirit, even if i also think it was counterproductive to the team.
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Yes Bertuzzi did one of the most high profile stupid things in the history of the sport but IIRC, every single local news outlet was talking about retaliation for what Moore did to Naslund. That was the buildup to that game.

I think what should have happened was the old school way where leaders from the two teams decide on who Moore is going to fight and that would be the end of it. Unfortunately, it was Cooke that fought Moore and Cooke lost that fight and Bert wanted more.
 
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but also, clouts was our fourth truculent starting goalie out of the previous five. i don't believe weekes was much of a fighter, but sean burke, garth snow, and felix potvin all could throw 'em.
 
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vadim sharifijanov said:
but also, clouts was our fourth truculent starting goalie out of the previous five. i don't believe weekes was much of a fighter, but sean burke, garth snow, and felix potvin all could throw 'em.
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Hit the post said:
And going way back....Glen Hanlon liked the fisticuffs.
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Even if goalies don't engage in hockey fights, try and take a cheap shot at a goalie and see how most goalies react. The reality is that there are very few NHL goalies who get absolutely rattled when they get angry (nobody springs to mind). None that made it as a NHL goalie, never mind a starting goalie. Of course, running a goalie or taking cheap shots at a goalie usually isn't good strategy and nobody did what Sean Avery did until Sean Avery did it.
 
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F A N said:
Yes Bertuzzi did one of the most high profile stupid things in the history of the sport but IIRC, every single local news outlet was talking about retaliation for what Moore did to Naslund. That was the buildup to that game.

I think what should have happened was the old school way where leaders from the two teams decide on who Moore is going to fight and that would be the end of it. Unfortunately, it was Cooke that fought Moore and Cooke lost that fight and Bert wanted more.
Click to expand...


If I remember correctly, Moore turned down a bunch of guys asking to fight, and finally accepted Cookes, but also semi jumped him…
 
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F A N said:
But again, in the regular season, was there an important regular season game where Cloutier's temper cost us dearly? Was there a game in the playoffs where it was Cloutier's temper that cost us the game? I don't think Cloutier's temper was a problem and at least the guy could back it up as one of the best goalie fighters.
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I'm just saying that it is clear it was easy for him to lose his composure, whether that was from Forsberg hitting him in the nuts or letting in a softie.

I honestly can't recall a specific game that he cost the team in the regular season, but I am sure there'd be a couple if I were to really go digging.
 
AwesomeInTheory said:
I'm just saying that it is clear it was easy for him to lose his composure, whether that was from Forsberg hitting him in the nuts or letting in a softie.
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But you are claiming that this lost of composure resulted in him becoming "porous" in the regular season which is what I disagree with. Maybe earlier on in his career that was a problem.

AwesomeInTheory said:
I honestly can't recall a specific game that he cost the team in the regular season, but I am sure there'd be a couple if I were to really go digging.
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I think this kind of proves my point. Even if it did happen (and I'm sure that there were games where he lost his cool and cost the team), it didn't really happen that often or glaringly so. And of course there were also some stinkers in a season where he starts ~60 games.
 
F A N said:
But you are claiming that this lost of composure resulted in him becoming "porous" in the regular season which is what I disagree with. Maybe earlier on in his career that was a problem.


I think this kind of proves my point. Even if it did happen (and I'm sure that there were games where he lost his cool and cost the team), it didn't really happen that often or glaringly so. And of course there were also some stinkers in a season where he starts ~60 games.
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You're asking me to have perfect recall on regular season games from 20+ years ago. My memory is good, but it's not that good. There were definitely times I recall Cloutier getting mad and animated in games and believing it cost the team. What exact games were those? Again, it was 20+ years ago.
 
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AwesomeInTheory said:
You're asking me to have perfect recall on regular season games from 20+ years ago. My memory is good, but it's not that good. There were definitely times I recall Cloutier getting mad and animated in games and believing it cost the team. What exact games were those? Again, it was 20+ years ago.
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No I'm not asking you to remember exact games. And again, a goalie getting mad and animated in games and even taking penalties was normal. I don't recall this being a problem for Cloutier in the regular season during his last two years as a starter here. Like I do not recall any discussions where fans were trying to guess whether Cloutier would lose his temper this game and cost his team the game.

You claim that Cloutier would lose his temper easily and start becoming porous in the regular season and I disagree with that. Heck, even in the playoffs, are you saying Cloutier letting in beach balls was a direct or even indirect result of him losing his temper? I don't think so.
 
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F A N said:
No I'm not asking you to remember exact games. And again, a goalie getting mad and animated in games and even taking penalties was normal. I don't recall this being a problem for Cloutier in the regular season during his last two years as a starter here. Like I do not recall any discussions where fans were trying to guess whether Cloutier would lose his temper this game and cost his team the game.

You claim that Cloutier would lose his temper easily and start becoming porous in the regular season and I disagree with that. Heck, even in the playoffs, are you saying Cloutier letting in beach balls was a direct or even indirect result of him losing his temper? I don't think so.
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No…I’m saying that he was mentally fragile and his ability to lose his temper easily is proof of that.

Him getting flustered after letting in a softie is another example of him being mentally weak.

E: and if you’re not asking me to remember exact games, why did you ask me to recall specific games? Like you literally asked me if there were any important regular season games where he lost his temper.
 
AwesomeInTheory said:
No…I’m saying that he was mentally fragile and his ability to lose his temper easily is proof of that.
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So a man who has can lose his temper easily = mentally fragile?

AwesomeInTheory said:
Him getting flustered after letting in a softie is another example of him being mentally weak.

E: and if you’re not asking me to remember exact games, why did you ask me to recall specific games? Like you literally asked me if there were any important regular season games where he lost his temper.
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You said, "He was a mentally fragile player who, once rattled (and it was very easy to rattle him), became porous." I asked if you recall an important regular season game where that happened. I think people do remember these things in important games, fair? And there should be some proof to back up our perceptions. For example, Luongo was known as a slow starer. This is backed up by fan perception, articles, and actual stats. Silovs having trouble tracking the puck. People remember that because there's enough instances of that happening.

Like Dan Cloutier losing his temper when Travis Green crashed into him can be found on the internet. In fact, this article seems to destroy your point:

Cloutier, by the way, went on to make 37 saves on 39 shots and was named the game’s second star
Click to expand...
 
F A N said:
So a man who has can lose his temper easily = mentally fragile?
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No?

"No…I’m saying that he was mentally fragile and his ability to lose his temper easily is proof of that.

Him getting flustered after letting in a softie is another example of him being mentally weak."

Also me: "It was a combination of him being easy to rile up and get off his game due to his temper, and then also being flustered if he let in a weak goal or was pressured."

Also me: "But those two issues is why I say he was mentally fragile."

Also me: "I'm just saying that it is clear it was easy for him to lose his composure, whether that was from Forsberg hitting him in the nuts or letting in a softie."

Are you reading what I am writing?

I asked if you recall an important regular season game where that happened.
Click to expand...

This is veering into the farcical.

You: "In the regular season, was there an important regular season game where Cloutier's temper cost us dearly?"
Me: "You're asking me to have perfect recall on regular season games from 20+ years ago."
You: "No I'm not asking you to remember exact games."
Also you: "I asked if you recall an important regular season game where that happened."

??????????????????????????


In fact, this article seems to destroy your point:
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"Green got the last laugh though, as the Bruins won the game 2-1 in overtime."

Losing a close game in overtime. Hmm.

Also completely unrelated, but trying to look up details on this game led to a hilarious AI summary.

1782234267815.png





Hughson: Teams have tried and tried to get that reaction out of Cloutier.

Hmm. Wonder why.

(Canucks won this game 6-3 with Cloutier's sparkling .893 save %.)
 
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Hit the post said:
A goalie that loses his confidence doesn't automatically mean they're 'mentally fragile'. But my medical knowledge is limited to having watched all the episodes of Doggie Howser. :sarcasm:
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Was that the show where a prodigy puppy dog became a doctor?
 
Hit the post said:
A goalie that loses his confidence doesn't automatically mean they're 'mentally fragile'. But my medical knowledge is limited to having watched all the episodes of Doggie Howser. :sarcasm:
Click to expand...

I agree, but I think that there is a long enough of a track record of Cloutier's mentals affecting his game in a negative fashion. It's impossible to definitively know, but I think that there's enough of a body of work there to make some fair inferences.

Like I said, guys like Roy or Hextall were hotheads...but they were also really f***ing good.

Also, Doogie Howser, not Doggie Howser :p
 
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