Seravalli: Flyers turn down 1st and 2nd for Laughton

[The Madrigal]

Or you know no team should pay a first plus a second for a third line center.

What NHL teams "should do" is completely irrelevant.

 

[Peat]

I get this from the Flyers' perspective and it boils down to two things

1) They're very happy to keep hold of Laughton
2) They can probably sell him later for the same price (if not more) easily

The rationale behind 1 is that while the Flyers are rebuilding, they don't want to bottom out and lose any sense of competitive culture. Guys like Laughton who wear a letter, who are heart and soul players, who want to be in the area... they're guys they need to get them through this. That doesn't mean they're sancrosanct, but they're in a different boat to guys who don't have that mental make-up and maybe want out. The Flyers are going to look for "dang, that's too good to miss" offers, not "that's fair".

And while obviously they need to collect assets, it's not like they won't have plenty of guys who want out to sell on to get their assets on.

As for 2... there is a long list of middle six forwards getting 1st and nice piece at the deadline when teams are anxious to juice up their roster with rugged, heart and soul guys who can play a little. Blake Coleman. Tanner Jeannot. JGP, Foligno, Brandon Hagel... and they've got three deadlines to do it. And two summers.

I don't think a team is going to radically outbid 1st and 2nd, but that's okay. They keep the player they want and can revisit later if they change their mind.

 

[biturbo19]

Sure but what are the flyers doing anytime soon? His value is because of the contract and term. The value drops the longer they hold onto him. It is not like he is that young either.

He's a 29 year old Top-9 Center/Winger with pretty ideal playoff traits and multiple years left on a reasonable contract. It's not like he turns into a pumpkin at midnight. He'll be worth at least a 1st+ at the deadline if it comes to that. Briere has absolutely no reason to rush into a trade on him.

 

[Winston Wolf]

If the headline was "Flyers turn down two 2nd round picks for Laughton" nobody would have a problem with it. Instead, it's a 25th or 29th pick and a random 2nd in the future and it has to be unfounded.

Not saying this is a terrible offer, but I'm sure Briere would prefer to get a pick closer to 15th for a guy who is signed long-term to a good deal and basically the only player (who doesn't have injury concerns) in the Flyers' leadership group. As others have mentioned, he's exactly the type of player that NHL GMs fall in love with and overpay for. He's not my favorite player in the world, but they're not wrong about NHL GMs.

And yes, he doesn't have a ton of points over his career, but he also only has 11 PP points because the Flyers generally don't give their own youth offensive opportunities (see a vastly superior player like Sean Couturier's first six years after being drafted 8th or Travis Sanheim, who put up huge numbers in the WHL on a terrible team, yet has barely gotten PP time in the NHL). The Flyers in general love trash like Kevin Hayes and would rather feed him PP time than ever give an internal guy like Laughton a shot (similar with DeAngelo and Sanheim).

 

[Rich Nixon]

If you don’t care for reality, so be it.

Managers don’t leak things like this. That should be your first hint it’s likely not true.

Secondly. If they did leak this, it’s bush league. There will be managers who will not deal with other managers who they can’t trust to keep their mouth shut about their private conversations. They simply won’t answer the phone anymore. That only hurts the Flyers. Another reason why it’s likely not true.

You can believe what you like. That’s the reality.

GMs aren't the only people privvy to conversations between GMs. You know that, right? "Private conversations"? Heh. These are billion-dollar businesses talking about exchanging tens of millions of dollars worth of assets. It's not two guys on the phone whispering sweet nothings and singlehandedly making big financial decisions. There are plenty of folks around them in the know. There are folks in the room with them when they make these calls. Assistant GMs, NHL scouts, advisors, ownership reps. Some of them talk to reporters casually, with or without intent.

Which is not to say GMs don't absolutely leak information to reporters themselves. Of course they do. They play the game through the press as well, though almost always with intent. In this case, the leak would most likely come from the Flyers end in an effort to establish or increase the market for their asset.

You speak with certainty as if all this shit isn't commonplace, and is instead the mistake of a rookie GM and definitely a fatal one. It isn't. It's pretty goddamn common. The bread and butter of insider reporting happens to be the soft underbelly of bureaucracy, from government to big business. Pro hockey is big business. No true secrets when there are seven, eight, nine zeroes in the number.

"Private conversations"? Quaint. BUSH LEAGUE. Man, what? This shit is common. Go Google "NHL trade turned down."

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

Must think they’ll get more at the deadline

Teams don’t usually make draft pick trades until before the drafts starts. Teams usually like to see if they can get a higher offer when there’s a deadline. So just because it’s not done now doesn’t mean it doesn’t get done

 

[wingdestroyer]

If they just want to KEEP Laughton…ill be v v disappointed in Danny/Jonsey

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I don't blame him, but I think that would have been a great deal for Philly considering where they are as an org.

Hagel is a better player (but doesn't play a premium position), and he got 2 x 1sts with a better cap hit but 1 less year. Late 1st + high 2nd seems pretty tidy.

The reason I like this deal is that they get those kids in the system right away, rather than playing out a year or two of Laughton's contract then moving him later. Kids drafted this year should be ready to push for spots in 3 years or so, which lines up with a lot of what the Flyer's game plan seems to be.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Do you even follow the league? People like you have been saying this very thing for years and years and NHL GM's continue to do NHL GM things over and over again. As much as maybe you or I don't think they should value certain players in a certain way they simply cannot help themselves and will always overpay for intangibles like versatility, heart, grit, and character.

Once again, you can say “it only takes one team” only so many times.

And too bad that one team who has influenced perception of value for players like this are likely out of the running (ie Tampa).

And citing previous failed/bad trades doesn’t exactly support the perceived value. If anything, it undermines it.

 

[Curufinwe]

This… and let’s also not forget other managers aren’t too keen on airing anything publicly, out of respect for their own players and other teams.

Let’s just pretend it was Armstrong or Yzerman. They just won’t deal with a manager who plays the media games. So Briere wouldn’t be getting off to a great start if he’s leaking things like this.

He should be the only one involved. Period. If he didn’t take an offer, there’s no need to say things like this…. Managers do NOT like this at all. Players do not like it. It does nobody any good.

So if this is true, Briere just committed one of the mortal sins of being a manager, and it only took him a couple of months. If they have a leaker, fire the person. Look how stupid they looked with the whole JVR thing. Someone leaked something to the media. That means it was either Fletcher or someone else is involved in making decisions. Or at least trusted at a high level.

It’s just Mickey Mouse and most managers were players. They get it. You would expect Briere to get it.

Cut the dose, dude.

 

[Darren McCord]

He's a 29 year old Top-9 Center/Winger with pretty ideal playoff traits and multiple years left on a reasonable contract. It's not like he turns into a pumpkin at midnight. He'll be worth at least a 1st+ at the deadline if it comes to that. Briere has absolutely no reason to rush into a trade on him.

I agree with that. I just how much more he will fetch but point taken. I was thinking more if they wait until next offseason.

 

[Petes2424]

Cut the dose, dude.

It’s fine if you don’t want to believe it, but it’s no secret managers don’t like other managers who leak their conversations. It’s not fair to players or the other team. Ask JVR.

 

[Rich Nixon]

It’s fine if you don’t want to believe it, but it’s no secret managers don’t like other managers who leak their conversations. It’s not fair to players or the other team. Ask JVR.

Ask JVR? I think JVR probably wanted to play in the playoffs this year, but I don't think he gives two shits about the conversations that failed to make that happen.

And, as I laid out, there's no reason to believe it was Briere himself, or even anyone on the Flyers side. A Blues pro scout, for instance, can be tasked with assessing video on the player and looped into the conversation; they chatter with colleagues; colleagues chatter with reporters. A million ways that can go down and reasons it can. For instance, you can imagine a scenario where you think you have a banger offer, the other GM turns it down, and you float it out there to put pressure on the other guy to circle back ("Can you believe he turned this amazing offer down? That's almost malpractice!") These sorts of things happen all the damn time, they're potential hockey trades, not the exchange of confidential intel. It's chatter GMs can use for various reasons and, if not beneficial, deny and move on from.

You're writing this whole story in your mind, with no more information than anyone else yet CERTAIN you've got it right, and then coming here trying to lecture everyone about what it means. It's a funny bit, at least, I'll give you that. But good lord is it ever condescending and silly.

 

[IComeInPeace]

He’s worth at least this, and likely more at the TDL.

 

[Curufinwe]

Danny boy is a total leaker. That's why we all knew about the Provorov trade weeks in advance.

 

[GKJ]

Whoever wants him was always going to have to come and get him. The Flyers don’t want to trade him, but clearly the interest has gotten their attention. It’s going to be their price and no one else’s.

 

[1865]

What if the 1st was say 31st overall and the 2nd 63tf? Would you do that deal? We do not know the placements of the picks

Yeh, i'd do that. Laughton's alright but he's worthless for us now.

 

[stempniaksen]

I'm sure Briere knows there are other potential deals out there, and while the value may not end up being better cumulatively than a 1st + 2nd, maybe it addresses the Flyers needs better. This is a team that's likely going to have a lot in the way of quantity of picks, it wouldn't be shocking to me if they ended targeting a top-20 1st instead of a later 1st and additional pick.