Flyers' Misfortune and State of Mind

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

Another collection of players we've traded that won a cup somewhere else. Michkov is next lolol

 

[flyersnorth]

I was just thinking about it today and for the first time in a long time (been a fan for over 20 years of this team, light poster, but heavy follower of this forum) and I think post-draft is the first time where I've considered not following this team anymore, and maybe moving on to greener pasture, but just wanted an opportunity to share and revel with my peers in frustration a bit. Feel free to respond or not; vent, agree, disagree, but just posting this as a bit of an outlet.

I'm not nearly as cynical or critical as most on this forum to the Flyers management, even if I do agree with the general sentiment regarding their ineptitude over the last 15 years. I grew up in Chicago as a Blackhawks fan originally, and moved to the Flyers when Bill Wirtz kept screwing the team over and over again and I followed some of my favorite players to their new teams (i..e, JR, among others) due to a very passionate fan base and owner - and stuck with it, even through the dark days of Hextall and Fletcher.

However, I'm really starting to believe that the organization is cursed in some fashion - and I thought that was really going to be trending positively once Briere took over, but it's just gut-punch after gut-punch. Ignoring the list of all the things that have happened that are generally out of our control (Patrick, Lindblom, Ellis) among others of just pure bad luck (nevermind the crap management), I actually thought that we were on an upswing. Briere's first year was great, IMO - Michkov, dumping Provorov, Hayes, etc. and the draft last year was fantastic.

But I cannot help now see the implications of what has happened with Cutter Gauthier (and for the record, I don't really blame Briere or Flyers management for this) - but the problem is that the outstanding result is the same. The ripple effect that this has had again altered the direction of this franchise negatively, even if Michkov coming over early has been positive.

I don't think the Flyers passed on Buium just willy nilly; I really do believe that the agent had a hand in this - and I don't subscribe to the belief of drafting players regardless of outside factors - and I do think that teams and agents will always gravitate towrads working together if their relationship is favorable, and the opposite if it's not - and it's unrealistic to expect all teams work well with all agencies. But assuming those beliefs I outlined in this paragraph are true, and even if you were to totally absolve Flyers management (I don't, I do think they had a hand in this position we are in), if we assume that didn't happen, it's reasonable to believe our outcome for 24-25 would be:

Cutter Gauthier - one of the best prospects in the world, big, strong 2 way center (whether you believe he is a wing or not, the Flyers management drafted him in the hopes that he was a C), great shot, elite prospect, rising above his draft class on a team much needing center depth. Could have easily slotted in as #2C this year, along with the rest of our #2 or #3Cs, and emerged as the best of them by year's end.

Zeev Buium - As a result of the situation with Cutter, the team passed on an all-situations #1 d-man prospect, with historical numbers, because of relationship with agent. Again, I don't blame management for this 100% of not wanting to deal with the agent, but I can also see the other side where maybe they should have just taken him anyway unless they were given a notion that he wouldn't sign them. Don't know the full story of this, but at the end, we didn't take him.

MM - Coming over.

Instead of seeing CG, MM, Buium, three possible elite talents filtering in over the next 2 years, we get Luchanko, Drysdale and MM.

Maybe Luchanko is great - but it's still far more underwhelming than the former. The former also being a much more positive future-proof roster lineup, than the latter. And the deferral of more picks to next year just pushes all this back, and while I agree that it takes time, taking time to become great doesn't mean you don't see any improvements along the way. Now, with all the picks next year, I'm just waiting to see what will set us back next year, rather than hoping, because that's really all that's been happening.

It just seems like another setback in a myriad of setbacks.

Would love all of your thoughts, vents, agreements, disagreements, but just felt - for the first time in a long time - like writing a post on my perspective.

I don't really disagree with anything you've posted.

Feelings of being "cursed", feeling things are unfair sometimes, feeling like they've blown picks or mismanaged assets, or taken a series of half-measures.

I've loved the Flyers since I was 5 years old, and nothing will ever change that. Their story is a part of my memories and experiences over the past decades. Some moments were amazing (80s cup runs, 2010 cup run, early Lindros years, watching Giroux every night for 14 years), and others were heartbreaking (pretty much the end result of everything I just listed).

I loved the Lindros and Legion of Doom years. Richards and Carter and Gagne years were a lot of fun. I tuned out for many of the Hakstol years, and most of the past decade. Last season I thought was quite a fun one.

In the end, I will always look forward to a new season and see how things shake out. They may grab my interest, they may lose it. But I'll always come back for the next one.

 

[Boocowski]

It's kind of incredible that this team is exactly the same as last year + michkov. That's indefensible

But +Michkov isn't nothing. It's a big thing. Now it's true that the Gauthier thing sucks, but idk if that's all on the Flyers or on these cocky American kids and the rules around them. Look at McGroarty in Winnipeg? Unlike Canadian kids who get drafted these guys have a lot more leverage and they are starting to use it. Not sure what any teams can really do about it.
People have forgotten though that we had no business getting Michkov who should have gone #2 in that draft but the Russia thing came up and he fell and then he said Philadelphia was the team he wanted to play for and now he's come over early so that's a HUGE accomplishment.
In free agency I didn't expect much, but I was hoping they'd re-sign Walker not Johnson as Walker seemed to be a good fit on this team and he was somewhat available for reasonable money. I won't get totally pissed about free agency until after the dead contracts are done with (for the most part) and then they waste money.
If they are better next year than they were this year I will be content. Maybe not overly happy, but content.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

.However, I'm really starting to believe that the organization is cursed in some fashion

So you followed the Hawks until around the lockout and then switched over? You might be the curse my man.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

@FLYguy3911 Now Fantilli was a reach too. We'll be back at Bedard level by September.

 

[Pantokrator]

It's kind of incredible that this team is exactly the same as last year + michkov. That's indefensible

We have Eric Johnson for an entire year....

 

[Strawberry Fields]

I didn't want the Flyers to make any big additions this summer. But I honestly believe the fact that they're running it back with Michkov being the only addition shows they believe they're only a Michkov away from contention. Which is unsurprising but scary to think about.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

I would like to maximize my earning potential in a career likely to last ~15years if I'm lucky.

-Cocky American

 

[FlyerNutter]

What will always astound me, is the level of fan support that continues.

I know the Leafs had a following during their “dark times” - but they were gone after in media outlets, and from regular people constantly.

Look at the last decade +, and the continued nonsense we see. If that happened to Boston, NYR, really any of the Canadian clubs do we think it would just be so casually accepted?

The Flyers just have no standard, they preach about it from an on ice perspective but it’s wild how there is so little accountability off ice.

Yet people support them in large numbers. I honestly will never know why, but as long as they have that support behind an alumni centric management team - nothing changes.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What will always astound me, is the level of fan support that continues.

I know the Leafs had a following during their “dark times” - but they were gone after in media outlets, and from regular people constantly.

Look at the last decade +, and the continued nonsense we see. If that happened to Boston, NYR, really any of the Canadian clubs do we think it would just be so casually accepted?

The Flyers just have no standard, they preach about it from an on ice perspective but it’s wild how there is so little accountability off ice.

Yet people support them in large numbers. I honestly will never know why, but as long as they have that support behind an alumni centric management team - nothing changes.

Years ago, an incredibly dumb sport talk radio show host made one good point. He liked to call Flyers fans Stepfords in reference to the 70s movie The Stepford Wives. It’s been culty as long as I’ve been alive.

In general, Flyers fans have the least overlap and the least in common with the other Philadelphia sports teams. The general population doesn’t care and the ones that do are largely true believers or happy to simply forget until they start winning again.

 

[Rich Nixon]

What will always astound me, is the level of fan support that continues.

I know the Leafs had a following during their “dark times” - but they were gone after in media outlets, and from regular people constantly.

Look at the last decade +, and the continued nonsense we see. If that happened to Boston, NYR, really any of the Canadian clubs do we think it would just be so casually accepted?

The Flyers just have no standard, they preach about it from an on ice perspective but it’s wild how there is so little accountability off ice.

Yet people support them in large numbers. I honestly will never know why, but as long as they have that support behind an alumni centric management team - nothing changes.

It's an incredibly strong brand that Snider built. People are in love with the history, the logo, the feeling in the building when they're good and they're in the playoffs, and they want to get back to it. And they also basically control their media coverage--the broadcast network and major local sports talk radio are essentially part of the same company as the team and the arena. The select few critical beats aged out, and they'll ice out access and credentials for anyone who bothers asking a serious question or writing a critical article. Essentially turn beats into access journalists. For as much as Snider hated the Soviets, he sure did build a consolidated, message-controlled apparatus straight out of a Stalinist's wet dreams.

So those legions of brand fans have been hammered with the message of NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE STATE...err...team. Failure is always on the players once they have been disposed of. Giroux wasn't a leader! Lindros was a drama queen! On and on and on. The Flying P can do no wrong, the players and coaches and GMs are always the next hope until they fail it and are killed.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Years ago, an incredibly dumb sport talk radio show host made one good point. He liked to call Flyers fans Stepfords in reference to the 70s movie The Stepford Wives. It’s been culty as long as I’ve been alive.

In general, Flyers fans have the least overlap and the least in common with the other Philadelphia sports teams. The general population doesn’t care and the ones that do are largely true believers or happy to simply forget until they start winning again.

Yeah hockey is very much niche here. You can’t compare the attention/following the Leafs get to the Flyers here. The situations aren’t comparable. The Eagles here would be a better comparable to the Leafs in regards to attention, interest, & ultimately the pressure that comes with that. For better or worse at the first sign of trouble Eagles fans are demanding for change/firings. That’s the type of fishbowl you’re in here when you play for that team.

The Flyers are very niche but loyal fanbase. The rest of the area might only pay attention if they’re good & it’s around the playoffs.

 

[scumpup]

I live in flyers country. I ask those 20+ years older than me and they all have personal flyers stories from Bernie Parent to Danny Briere. They all speak fondly of those memories. maybe 10% of them watch the current product. "Who cares about the flyers?" "You like hockey?" I grew up playing at the skate zone and all that jazz.

The smart fans have given up. Would rather watch the sixers, and of course we all love the eagles and phillies way more. Last game I went to was to say goodbye to Giroux. Doubt I'm seeing another game anytime soon. Maybe I'll go to an away game to see Michkov, Newark isn't too far.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

The Flyers weren’t even 50-50 to pick 1st in 2007. The most likely outcome from their perspective happened. That’s always been such a weird inclusion on the lists.

The Flyers not getting the 1OA is nothing crazy. That 1OA scoring the gaming winning goal in overtime to win the SC in Philly within 3 years is pretty nuts.

 

[BiggE]

Five reasons why they could pick in the top 5 in 2025
1. Players quit on Torts
2. Goaltending
3. Other teams in the east have improved
4. No Walker to solidify the D and help them get off to a fast start
5. Lack of depth and top end talent at center

Five reasons why they’ll screw up a top 5 pick
1. Briere
2. Fatso
3. Their obsession with size
4. Their obsession with players who fit their “culture”
5. Clarke

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

They didn’t address improving the C position.
The defensive group will be worse by adding Johnson and Risto to this group.
Torts ego
The shitty culture
Rocky Thompson still being employed
The goaltending is going to be put in tough situations all season by this teams defense. It is a massive wildcard

 

[BiggE]

They didn’t address improving the C position.
The defensive group will be worse by adding Johnson and Risto to this group.
Torts ego
The shitty culture
Rocky Thompson still being employed
The goaltending is going to be put in tough situations all season by this teams defense. It is a massive wildcard

Worst case, they stay relatively healthy, trade no one, extend TK and Torts maniacally pushes them to a 87-90 point finish and a pick in the 13-15 range.

Best case, they move both TK and Scotty, a few key players get minor to moderate injuries and miss significant time, Rocky is still Rocky, the goaltenders struggle and they tune out and quit on Torts by Christmas. This leads to a 70-73 point finish which puts them 4th to 6th from bottom going into the lottery.

 

[pit]

Five reasons why they’ll screw up a top 5 pick
1. Briere
2. Fatso
3. Their obsession with size
4. Their obsession with players who fit their “culture”
5. Clarke

Picking for "need"/fit

 

[PDX Flyer]

Signing Seeler to a four year contract without seeing him play without Walker is up there for me. He was terrible without Walker. That contract is going to suck.

 

[sigma six]

The Flyers not getting the 1OA is nothing crazy. That 1OA scoring the gaming winning goal in overtime to win the SC in Philly within 3 years is pretty nuts.

All these years later it still feels like a gut punch.

 

[Zenithfly]

I live in flyers country. I ask those 20+ years older than me and they all have personal flyers stories from Bernie Parent to Danny Briere. They all speak fondly of those memories. maybe 10% of them watch the current product. "Who cares about the flyers?" "You like hockey?" I grew up playing at the skate zone and all that jazz.

The smart fans have given up. Would rather watch the sixers, and of course we all love the eagles and phillies way more. Last game I went to was to say goodbye to Giroux. Doubt I'm seeing another game anytime soon. Maybe I'll go to an away game to see Michkov, Newark isn't too far.

Yikes, not sure where you get this idea the “smart fans” would rather watch the sixers … They just signed an over the hill 34 year old Paul George and fans are trying to convince themselves it’s a move that will pan out positively. This is just after they got rid of harden and Ben Simmons for a similar history of playoff disappointments. I wouldnt exactly say they’re the preferred choice of “smart fans”…

Judging by how you seem to be describing it that would make the fairweather fans who root for whatever team is best at the moment the “smart fans”.

Talk to me in 2 years (if it even lasts that long) when Paul George or someone else inevitably wants out of the sixers and the focus becomes how wasted embiids prime was. The currently constructed sixers still are not beating boston or whatever team in the west makes it to the finals any given year. The sixers are literally operating how the flyers did with giroux for 10+ years right now in regards to Embiid and surrounding him with the proper talent, some of you guys just refuse to see it solely bc of your hatred for the flyers front office. They are quite literally the worst example of a team “smart fans” would root for if we’re considering “smart fans” those that only root for good/savvy front offices.

Also, this isn’t to say the flyers front office is actually to be trusted or is 100% correct in their thought process. I just don’t see how you guys could actually bring up the sixers as an example of a team “smart fans” would root for in good faith.

 

[renberg]

I used to love basketball. Played it and coached it but I’d rather watch paint dry than the current NBA. If there was a game being played for free across the street, I’d close the blinds.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I used to love basketball. Played it and coached it but I’d rather watch paint dry than the current NBA. If there was a game being played for free across the street, I’d close the blinds.

ouch... hahaaa

 

[Magua]

2. Goaltending

There is a very real likelihood that their goaltending absolutely implodes. Ersson and Fedotov carry massive amounts of risk. Very good teams have their seasons sunk by goaltending. A low end bubble team with an all but assured bottom 3-5 PP? And people in hockey always overreact to it: fired coaches, blaming the defense (true or not). Nothing sinks morale faster. Of course, we'll have to deal with the overcorrection. But that's the most likely way they pick 5-10.

 

[BiggE]

There is a very real likelihood that their goaltending absolutely implodes. Ersson and Fedotov carry massive amounts of risk. Very good teams have their seasons sunk by goaltending. A low end bubble team with an all but assured bottom 3-5 PP? And people in hockey always overreact to it: fired coaches, blaming the defense (true or not). Nothing sinks morale faster. Of course, we'll have to deal with the overcorrection. But that's the most likely way they pick 5-10.

No doubt about it. By now, teams have a book on Ersson and expecting him and a guy with less than 10 games of NHL experience to carry at team that at best is a bubble team is like playing Russian roulette with 5 slugs in a six shooter.

Now add to it Rocky’s pp and Torts playing his mind games and I very much doubt they hit 80 points.

Honestly, I’m hoping for <70, it’s all we can hope for at this point.