Flyers' Misfortune and State of Mind

Van Buren Boy

--------------------
Aug 18, 2006
1,543
708
I'm in my later 40's. Growing up, the Flyers were my favorite sports franchise and the NHL was my fav pro sports league..it wasn't even close! Fast fwd to today and I can count on one hand how many games I've watched over the last few years. I'm so turned off from hockey that I can't even watch games as a neutral fan. I tried watching game 7 of the finals and turned it off after half a period.

The NFL and European football are my top 2 watched with baseball and basketball not far behind. I've watched more WNBA games this year than I've watched NHL games the last 2 years.

The Flyers have been so bad, so inept, that they haven't only turned me off of them but all of hockey.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
7,001
7,163
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
Looking for a needle of hope in a haystack of ****, I have noticed that there is a trend in the fanbase for going negative on the club. On Facebook posts, posts on other sites and general interest around town, the vibe is heading south.
As other say, when it turns up in a drop in revenue for the club, booing at games, fans showing up to games wearing bags, etc., things will force Comcast to intervene. Comcast is into this Philly Sports South development. For that to succeed, the Flyers can't be a garbage product.
I may be wrong but I think that this season will be an eventful one for the organization. They are going to be a worse team than is thought. Tortorella plays this "us against the world" mind game in order to rally his players into accepting his act. Sooner or later the players realize it's the world against the coach and that they are pawns on his chess board for his reasons which are not in align with theirs. Then the players, as they did in NYR, Vancouver and to a degree, CBJ, wise up to his act. The crap that he's pulled with Farabee, Couturier, Frost, Brink and others only works so many times. When Farabee gets dealt, after all of the unfair criticism of his play by Tortorella, that could/should break the locker room on Tortorella. From there the year goes sour.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
15,073
19,286
Key Biscayne
Flyers are not cursed. They are inept, incompetent, dysfunctional, and disorganized.

What was once a top organization in all of sports is not arguably the worst.

This is the point that needs to be understood. It's not a series of random misfortunes: It's a badly-run company that lacks vision and prioritizes loyalty and cliches over a measured modern approach.

It starts at the very top. The arrogance, hubris, and irrationality all started with Ed Snider. But he also combined that with a singular vision and a standard of expectations. After he stepped back and later passed, the only things that survived were the arrogance, hubris, and irrationality.

Today they're just a massive corporate asset, adjacent to a much-maligned cable company, with no clear leadership. Run exactly like a shitty media company—a mess of middle-management. They have an amorphous blob of bosses: The asshole coach who shouldn't even have a seat at the table; a rookie GM who was reared in management by the last set of corporate stooges; a doofy ex-player and broadcaster seemingly hired for his talent at selling bullshit narratives; and a random health insurance executive pretending to know what he's talking about. Do you think this tangle of idiots won't just devolve into a backstabbing fiasco?

The Cutter situation is the perfect illustration of who they are and what they think of their fans. By most reporting, it was a matter of bad communication and differences on ELC signing date that emerged in the transition period from their last terrible GM to their current probably-terrible GM. The player himself said it wasn't one thing, but a series of things he saw that made him to decide he didn't want to play in the organization for the sake of his career. Mismanagement!

Instead of looking at that situation and going, "well, we should learn from this," they instead elect to weaponize their media channels and try to make a marketing moment by...sending that entire management structure out there to call a 19-year-old kid a dick. Maybe he is, but it's well-reported that his problems were with how they did business, not with the city of Philadelphia or the color orange. When in sports have you EVER seen a show like the one they put on the night he was traded? That alone should have had people raising alarms.

If delaying his ELC cost him over $1m in potential career earnings, he has every right to be pissed off and want out. If that's me, you're not smoothing shit over with a f***ing John LeClair meet 'n greet. But there are enough, frankly, idiots in our ranks who will not think critically and eat that up. And they have. So there you go: They don't think of you as a critical fan who deserves great hockey talent to watch and enjoy. If they did that, they'd have to modernize how they did business. Instead, they'd rather treat you like a mark and lie to you to get you riled up and galvanized, while they work in the background on their MASTER PLAN of building the 1999 Dallas Stars or some shit.

It's frankly disgusting conduct that will not play out well for them in the long run. But it's what they are. They're a massive marketing operation that just so happens to have a shitty hockey team attached to it. All they know how to do is burn bridges and sell dreams.

They need to be sold.
 
Last edited:

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
7,001
7,163
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
This is the point that needs to be understood. It's not a series of random misfortunes: It's a badly-run company that lacks vision and prioritizes loyalty and cliches over a measured modern approach.

It starts at the very top. The arrogance, hubris, and irrationality all started with Ed Snider. But he also combined that with a singular vision and a standard of expectations. After he stepped back and later passed, the only things that survived were the arrogance, hubris, and irrationality.

Today they're just a massive corporate asset, adjacent to a much-maligned cable company, with no clear leadership. Run exactly like a shitty media company—a mess of middle-management. They have an amorphous blob of bosses: The asshole coach who shouldn't even have a seat at the table; a rookie GM who was reared in management by the last set of corporate stooges; a doofy ex-player and broadcaster seemingly hired for his talent at selling bullshit narratives; and a random health insurance executive pretending to know what he's talking about. Do you think this tangle of idiots won't just devolve into a backstabbing fiasco?

The Cutter situation is the perfect illustration of who they are and what they think of their fans. By most reporting, it was a matter of bad communication and differences on ELC signing date that emerged in the transition period from their last terrible GM to their current probably-terrible GM. The player himself said it wasn't one thing, but a series of things he saw that made him to decide he didn't want to play in the organization for the sake of his career. Mismanagement!

Instead of looking at that situation and going, "well, we should learn from this," they instead elect to weaponize their media channels and try to make a marketing moment by...sending that entire management structure out there to call a 19-year-old kid a dick. Maybe he is, but it's well-reported that his problems were with how they did business, not with the city of Philadelphia or the color orange. When in sports have you EVER seen a show like the one they put on the night he was traded? That alone should have had people raising alarms.

If delaying his ELC cost him over $1m in potential career earnings, he has every right to be pissed off and want out. If that's me, you're not smoothing shit over with a f***ing John LeClair meet 'n greet. But there are enough, frankly, idiots in our ranks who will not think critically and eat that up. And they have. So there you go: They don't think of you as a critical fan who deserves great hockey talent to watch and enjoy. If they did that, they'd have to modernize how they did business. Instead, they'd rather treat you like a mark and lie to you to get you riled up and galvanized, while they work in the background of proving their MASTER PLAN of building the 1999 Dallas Stars or some shit.

It's frankly disgusting conduct that will not play out well for them in the long run. But it's what they are. They're a massive marketing operation that just so happens to have a shitty hockey team attached to it. All they know how to do is burn bridges and sell dreams.

They need to be sold.
I don't see Comcast selling the club. They want a piece of that South Philly Sports District.


There's no way that Comcast is walking away from that pile of money. The only hope that we Flyers fans have is that Comcast will also wise up and invest properly in the club to upgrade the value of their part of the District.
 

blackjackmulligan

Registered User
Jun 17, 2022
2,779
1,153
This is the point that needs to be understood. It's not a series of random misfortunes: It's a badly-run company that lacks vision and prioritizes loyalty and cliches over a measured modern approach.

It starts at the very top. The arrogance, hubris, and irrationality all started with Ed Snider. But he also combined that with a singular vision and a standard of expectations. After he stepped back and later passed, the only things that survived were the arrogance, hubris, and irrationality.

Today they're just a massive corporate asset, adjacent to a much-maligned cable company, with no clear leadership. Run exactly like a shitty media company—a mess of middle-management. They have an amorphous blob of bosses: The asshole coach who shouldn't even have a seat at the table; a rookie GM who was reared in management by the last set of corporate stooges; a doofy ex-player and broadcaster seemingly hired for his talent at selling bullshit narratives; and a random health insurance executive pretending to know what he's talking about. Do you think this tangle of idiots won't just devolve into a backstabbing fiasco?

The Cutter situation is the perfect illustration of who they are and what they think of their fans. By most reporting, it was a matter of bad communication and differences on ELC signing date that emerged in the transition period from their last terrible GM to their current probably-terrible GM. The player himself said it wasn't one thing, but a series of things he saw that made him to decide he didn't want to play in the organization for the sake of his career. Mismanagement!

Instead of looking at that situation and going, "well, we should learn from this," they instead elect to weaponize their media channels and try to make a marketing moment by...sending that entire management structure out there to call a 19-year-old kid a dick. Maybe he is, but it's well-reported that his problems were with how they did business, not with the city of Philadelphia or the color orange. When in sports have you EVER seen a show like the one they put on the night he was traded? That alone should have had people raising alarms.

If delaying his ELC cost him over $1m in potential career earnings, he has every right to be pissed off and want out. If that's me, you're not smoothing shit over with a f***ing John LeClair meet 'n greet. But there are enough, frankly, idiots in our ranks who will not think critically and eat that up. And they have. So there you go: They don't think of you as a critical fan who deserves great hockey talent to watch and enjoy. If they did that, they'd have to modernize how they did business. Instead, they'd rather treat you like a mark and lie to you to get you riled up and galvanized, while they work in the background of proving their MASTER PLAN of building the 1999 Dallas Stars or some shit.

It's frankly disgusting conduct that will not play out well for them in the long run. But it's what they are. They're a massive marketing operation that just so happens to have a shitty hockey team attached to it. All they know how to do is burn bridges and sell dreams.

They need to be sold.
Who will be the next former Flyers to be hired in a for lack of better word, prominent role

I don't see Comcast selling the club. They want a piece of that South Philly Sports District.


There's no way that Comcast is walking away from that pile of money. The only hope that we Flyers fans have is that Comcast will also wise up and invest properly in the club to upgrade the value of their part of the District.
Comcast provides the Flyers with all the resources they need. As a management team you can't ask for anything more. Just poorly run.

Yet they think otherwise. Gold standard.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
15,073
19,286
Key Biscayne
I don't see Comcast selling the club. They want a piece of that South Philly Sports District.


There's no way that Comcast is walking away from that pile of money. The only hope that we Flyers fans have is that Comcast will also wise up and invest properly in the club to upgrade the value of their part of the District.

That's exactly the problem. Comcast is a f***ing terrible company. No one likes them. They only know how to make money, not satisfy customers.

Which is what they're doing right now. Revenue is up! New jerseys, TUFF TALKIN COACH and tryhard hockey put more butts in the seats than in recent years. They're selling their narrative around Gauthier, around THE NEW ERA OF ORANGE, they've got the Michkov hype train rolling.

They know how to make fast money without improving their actual products. They don't know how to find people who will build a proper hockey team and do the hard work. They just find some other bullshit marketing line and go from there.
 

Pantokrator

Who's the clown?
Jan 27, 2004
6,168
1,383
Semmes, Alabama
While I agree with the idea that the Flyers are run crappily, we are cursed as well. I have a whole MS Word document dedicated to this, but I'll just sum up some of the bright spots.

Pelle Lindbergh dies after winning Vezina, Lindros, Primeau, Pronger all have concussion issues, Nolan Patrick has migraines. We were the worst team by far in 2007 and did not win the lottery, leading to JVR, not Patirck Kane. Sam Morin never played bc of knees, not that I think he would have been awesome, but it compoounds things. Heck, Ryan Sittler never played because of injuries.

We gave up our recent first (Sbisa) and the 2009 and 2010 first round picks to get Pronger and he was done within a couple years.

The Carter Hart issue.

Maybe every team has a list of grievances like this and I only know ours from following them. But all of these had catastophic effects on the team. Of course they mismanaged Lindros and JVR.

It seems like these things were out of the team's control. Add to that the crap that this organization is and there is no way out.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
7,001
7,163
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
Who will be the next former Flyers to be hired in a for lack of better word, prominent role
JMO but I believe that Hilferty was hired to get the business community behind the South Philly Sports Complex. He should stick to that and get away from the hockey operations.
Jones was brought on to do the PR/media work for the club based upon his past experience in those areas. It's what he has to offer since he was a mediocre player at best and had no expertise in coaching or player development. He needs to stick to that alone.
Briere is the GM and should be solely involved in personnel matters-drafting; trades; hiring/firing of coaches and other on ice personnel; contract negotiations; head of player development etc.; the typical GM work. He needs to assert himself in his role and kick the other guys out to do theirs.
Then there is Tortorella who does not want to stick to coaching. He wants to have his fingers in all ice related decision making and probably a bit beyond that. He saw the Flyers situation as an ideal place for him to horn in and start to swing above his pay grade going up against an inexperienced group in management. Unfortunately for him when his coaching is exposed as a failure when the club does not make the POs and experiences additional player-coach dissension, he'll no longer be necessary and should be shown the door.
So,
Who will be the next former Flyers to be hired in a for lack of better word, prominent role?
Probably the next coach that Briere hires or the new GM that gets picked if Briere gets canned along with Tortorella.
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,013
16,978
Victoria, BC
While I agree with the idea that the Flyers are run crappily, we are cursed as well. I have a whole MS Word document dedicated to this, but I'll just sum up some of the bright spots.

Pelle Lindbergh dies after winning Vezina, Lindros, Primeau, Pronger all have concussion issues, Nolan Patrick has migraines. We were the worst team by far in 2007 and did not win the lottery, leading to JVR, not Patirck Kane. Sam Morin never played bc of knees, not that I think he would have been awesome, but it compoounds things. Heck, Ryan Sittler never played because of injuries.

We gave up our recent first (Sbisa) and the 2009 and 2010 first round picks to get Pronger and he was done within a couple years.

The Carter Hart issue.

Maybe every team has a list of grievances like this and I only know ours from following them. But all of these had catastophic effects on the team. Of course they mismanaged Lindros and JVR.

It seems like these things were out of the team's control. Add to that the crap that this organization is and there is no way out.
I'm not going to say the Flyers are unlucky, but most of the teams in the NHL can probably say they have had similar bad luck, especially if you go back 40 years.

You could also view it as lucky that all the assets we gave up for Pronger amounted to basically nothing for the Ducks, lol.
 

MorgantiDrinksBlood

Registered User
Dec 26, 2011
2,987
3,156
Tokyo, Japan
That's exactly the problem. Comcast is a f***ing terrible company. No one likes them. They only know how to make money, not satisfy customers.

Which is what they're doing right now. Revenue is up! New jerseys, TUFF TALKIN COACH and tryhard hockey put more butts in the seats than in recent years. They're selling their narrative around Gauthier, around THE NEW ERA OF ORANGE, they've got the Michkov hype train rolling.

They know how to make fast money without improving their actual products. They don't know how to find people who will build a proper hockey team and do the hard work. They just find some other bullshit marketing line and go from there.
This guy is hitting the nail on the head, at least with Mr. Snider we had an owner that cared about winning hockey, he f***ed up a lot but he genuinely cared. The current ownership cares about the bottom line and that's it. They are raking cash still and could care less about putting a winning team on the ice as long as the fans show up, the product we're receiving will be continually ran down our throats until we die cupless Flyer fans.
 

BringBackHakstol

Registered User
Oct 25, 2005
20,552
11,350
Philadelphia
Comcast -spectacor is still under the deluded vision that winning can be done generically by committee of ex players. I'm sure they want to win, but they simply don't understand that you need to be far smarter in 2024 to get the edge than in 1999. By keeping all these legacy people around they have trapped themselves 20 years in the past.
 

Tarpongg

#fakerebuild
May 26, 2012
441
1,133
This is the point that needs to be understood. It's not a series of random misfortunes: It's a badly-run company that lacks vision and prioritizes loyalty and cliches over a measured modern approach.

It starts at the very top. The arrogance, hubris, and irrationality all started with Ed Snider. But he also combined that with a singular vision and a standard of expectations. After he stepped back and later passed, the only things that survived were the arrogance, hubris, and irrationality.

Today they're just a massive corporate asset, adjacent to a much-maligned cable company, with no clear leadership. Run exactly like a shitty media company—a mess of middle-management. They have an amorphous blob of bosses: The asshole coach who shouldn't even have a seat at the table; a rookie GM who was reared in management by the last set of corporate stooges; a doofy ex-player and broadcaster seemingly hired for his talent at selling bullshit narratives; and a random health insurance executive pretending to know what he's talking about. Do you think this tangle of idiots won't just devolve into a backstabbing fiasco?

The Cutter situation is the perfect illustration of who they are and what they think of their fans. By most reporting, it was a matter of bad communication and differences on ELC signing date that emerged in the transition period from their last terrible GM to their current probably-terrible GM. The player himself said it wasn't one thing, but a series of things he saw that made him to decide he didn't want to play in the organization for the sake of his career. Mismanagement!

Instead of looking at that situation and going, "well, we should learn from this," they instead elect to weaponize their media channels and try to make a marketing moment by...sending that entire management structure out there to call a 19-year-old kid a dick. Maybe he is, but it's well-reported that his problems were with how they did business, not with the city of Philadelphia or the color orange. When in sports have you EVER seen a show like the one they put on the night he was traded? That alone should have had people raising alarms.

If delaying his ELC cost him over $1m in potential career earnings, he has every right to be pissed off and want out. If that's me, you're not smoothing shit over with a f***ing John LeClair meet 'n greet. But there are enough, frankly, idiots in our ranks who will not think critically and eat that up. And they have. So there you go: They don't think of you as a critical fan who deserves great hockey talent to watch and enjoy. If they did that, they'd have to modernize how they did business. Instead, they'd rather treat you like a mark and lie to you to get you riled up and galvanized, while they work in the background of proving their MASTER PLAN of building the 1999 Dallas Stars or some shit.

It's frankly disgusting conduct that will not play out well for them in the long run. But it's what they are. They're a massive marketing operation that just so happens to have a shitty hockey team attached to it. All they know how to do is burn bridges and sell dreams.

They need to be sold.

So well said re the Cutter situation. Not enough was made of how poorly and classlessly mgmt handled it. Lindros, I believe, is the only person I’ve heard publicly come out against it

I don’t believe the Flyers are cursed, just inept.

But, if anything about the Flyers is cursed, it’s the goaltender position
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,013
16,978
Victoria, BC
Comcast -spectacor is still under the deluded vision that winning can be done generically by committee of ex players. I'm sure they want to win, but they simply don't understand that you need to be far smarter in 2024 to get the edge than in 1999. By keeping all these legacy people around they have trapped themselves 20 years in the past.
20 years in the past is about 20 years ahead of the actual Flyers mentality.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
56,305
43,926
But, if anything about the Flyers is cursed, it’s the goaltender position
667cc9c8c43a4.preview.jpg
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
15,073
19,286
Key Biscayne
So well said re the Cutter situation. Not enough was made of how poorly and classlessly mgmt handled it. Lindros, I believe, is the only person I’ve heard publicly come out against it

I don’t believe the Flyers are cursed, just inept.

But, if anything about the Flyers is cursed, it’s the goaltender position

Where did Lindros say that? I'd love to read it.
 
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CanadianFlyer88

Knublin' PPs
Feb 12, 2004
43,077
52,225
Van City
It's kind of incredible that this team is exactly the same as last year + michkov. That's indefensible

That's unfair. The defense is worse without Walker.
Goaltending is also a massive wildcard and could be worse than last year, too.

You know management thinks this is a playoff team; not making any moves to improve the on ice product is a continuing theme of negligence.
 

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