Rumor: Flyers Made Pitch to Columbus for 4th Overall

[ponder719]

Yes. That's the point.

I was kind of imagining the "minimal protections" described was "if you win #1 overall, we'll do something else; otherwise, pay up."

It seemed like that's what you were going for, but frankly, if the end result of this is my team getting bent over, I want them to walk away, not ask for another go. #12, plus (who I can only assume is) Farabee, plus another mid-lotto pick, is already an overpayment for #4 in a draft where there's exactly 1 guy separated from the pack, and you could justify any of a half dozen players at each of the next 12 picks.

 

[CBJx614]

Doubt it. My guess is Flyers want top 15 protection, and CLB wants top 10 protection, knowing pretty well that there's a decent chance Flyers will finish between 10-15.

This isn't a #1 overall protection type.

...that's the point though... CBJ has no need to move the pick, if Briere wants it, he needs to send them offer Waddell can't refuse. Otherwise CBJ is just going to take Lindstrom and build around two big ass physical centers


The price rises even more considering the fact that they are divisional opponents... CBJ is not in the business of doing them any favors.

 

[Mr Kot]

Kind of a risky move regardless though, right? Demidov might got top 3, unless they really wanted others too?

 

[Viqsi]

Doubt it. My guess is Flyers want top 15 protection, and CLB wants top 10 protection, knowing pretty well that there's a decent chance Flyers will finish between 10-15.

This isn't a #1 overall protection type.

It'd have to be; there's no point for the Jackets otherwise. If the Flyers had the sort of top- or second-pairing shutdown blueliner we need, maybe such insanity wouldn't be necessary, but y'all don't, and everyone that's left to discuss is, frankly, luxury adds. Yes, that includes Konecny - he'd be a damned nice luxury add, but we have enough quality wingers that he'd still be technically a luxury add. The other path is simply to get so much in raw portable value as to flip other assets to fill our needs. Thus the ridiculous asks.

It's not quite fair to Philly, but, well, frankly, y'all are the ones asking.

 

[tunnelvision]

4th overall

for

12th
PHI 1st 2025
Zamula

???

 

[Indy18]

Kind of a risky move regardless though, right? Demidov might got top 3, unless they really wanted others too?

I am going to be 100% honest...the door to Demidov isn't through Columbus...its through the Ducks.

 

[Neutrinos]

A few details I'd love to know: Which '25 #1? Which roster player? (My best guess is that it was either the Flyers #1 and Atkinson or the Colorado #1 and Farabee.) Was Waddell's no more along the lines of "we're definitely using the pick" or was it "that's not a sufficient offer"?

I would think any offer to Columbus - especially with the possibility that Lindstrom may be available at #4 - would include a C

My guess is that Frost was involved

 

[Viqsi]

Except the CLB GM has actually said it is... so not sure your point.

Because dangling it might get us the rest of the roster glue guys we need.

Every year there's a 'this is exactly what's needed' to rebuild the franchise. And every year there's an excuse as to why they are drafting top 5. On verge of becoming EDM, so keep believing that more top 5 picks is the solution.

The problem in CLB isn't the talent, actually. They have a lot, and lot of high end talent. They have for a long time. It's everything else.

This is a misperception of why the ask is so high. It's not that we want to make the picks; it's that we need something that a large variety of teams will also find valuable such that we can get what we're actually after. Because y'all don't have what we're actually after.

 

[Viqsi]

It seemed like that's what you were going for, but frankly, if the end result of this is my team getting bent over, I want them to walk away, not ask for another go. #12, plus (who I can only assume is) Farabee, plus another mid-lotto pick, is already an overpayment for #4 in a draft where there's exactly 1 guy separated from the pack, and you could justify any of a half dozen players at each of the next 12 picks.

That's entirely fair, and I think it makes good sense for the Flyers to walk away. There's other teams to talk to that might be more reasonable or have more need for what y'all have.

 

[Indy18]

It'd have to be; there's no point for the Jackets otherwise. If the Flyers had the sort of top- or second-pairing shutdown blueliner we need, maybe such insanity wouldn't be necessary, but y'all don't, and everyone that's left to discuss is, frankly, luxury adds. Yes, that includes Konecny - he'd be a damned nice luxury add, but we have enough quality wingers that he'd still be technically a luxury add. The other path is simply to get so much in raw portable value as to flip other assets to fill our needs. Thus the ridiculous asks.

It's not quite fair to Philly, but, well, frankly, y'all are the ones asking.

Exactly...this trade doesn't solve the biggest puzzle pieces on the team...especially the biggest which is the long term 2C solution (hopefully). We have that right now at 4. We don't need more first round picks as Cleveland is really starting to get crowded. We are at the end of the stockpiling phase but not enough to open the window. We need to see what kids can cut it and which can't this year.

 

[Scintillating10]

Farabee, Frost and Laughton have been discussed a lot lately as being on the way out. Along with Konecny. But if f Konecny was in that I'd imagine we wouldn't be discussing a rumor and would instead have a trade to announce.

It would have to be good player. Moving up you be getting impact player.

 

[n8]

Already have 5 with Chinakov, Voronkov, Marchenko as forwards, Provorov on D, and Tarasov in goal. Need another D to round out the unit

Silayev it is although I imagine there's a 50% chance he's still around at #8. Too bad he is not a RHD. Maybe 30% It really depends if the 4-7 teams want to draft D or F

 

[Indy18]

Silayev it is although I imagine there's a 50% chance he's still around at #8. Too bad he is not a RHD

If he was an RHD he's your number 2 pick

 

[thedjpd]

Exactly...this trade doesn't solve the biggest puzzle pieces on the team...especially the biggest which is the long term 2C solution (hopefully). We have that right now at 4. We don't need more first round picks as Cleveland is really starting to get crowded. We are at the end of the stockpiling phase but not enough to open the window. We need to see what kids can cut it and which can't this year.

This is totally reasonable if it's not a 'fit.'

But the conversation here isn't "sorry, but that package doesn't fit our needs" it's "oh, let's just try to get more value regardless of what we get if we decide to move it." Add TK, make next year's pick unprotected, etc (none of which solve their supposed needs!). Just get more, because!! Make sure if we trade this pick, we take them to the cleaners! Yes, ruthless NHL GMs!

Sorry, businesses don't operate that way. When they do, it's usually by accident. When OTT traded Karlsson, do you think they expected to get such a high pick? Completely accidental. That's the position that only fans make.

I'm totally fine if CLB says 'sorry we really need 4 ourselves to fit our team, and what you are offering doesn't satisify our needs" but the fans are responding with "oh, that package isn't enough, try to get more, as long as it's more."

 

[Viqsi]

This is totally reasonable if it's not a 'fit.'

But the conversation here isn't "sorry, but that package doesn't fit our needs" it's "oh, let's just try to get more value regardless of what we get if we decide to move it." Add TK, make next year's pick unprotected, etc. Just get more, because!!

That's the position that only fans make.

I'm totally fine if CLB says 'sorry we really need 4 ourselves to fit our team, and what you are offering doesn't satisify our needs" but the fans are responding with "oh, that package isn't enough, try to get more, as long as it's more."

I think then the disconnect here is that we're trying to come up with something that would work for us since it's an interesting conversation topic. Or, at least, interesting to Jackets fans; it's probably a horror show to Flyers fans. Which, y'know, we ought to understand and be sympathetic towards. I mean, y'all hate Pittsburgh too, so you can't be that bad.

I just don't see a good match, but apparently Briere's been trying anyways.

 

[thedjpd]

I think then the disconnect here is that we're trying to come up with something that would work for us since it's an interesting conversation topic. Or, at least, interesting to Jackets fans; it's probably a horror show to Flyers fans. Which, y'know, we ought to understand and be sympathetic towards. I mean, y'all hate Pittsburgh too, so you can't be that bad.

I just don't see a good match, but apparently Briere's been trying anyways.

Totally fine.

Briere is doing his job, and if CLB is saying that #4 is the only way to satisfy their org's needs, completely reasonable position.

But I think the value is there. It does not mean that the deal will happen.

If the deal is 12 + Farabee + Col 1st, I think that is a pretty substantial offer for CLB. More than any top 5 pick offer than I've seen recently. It still may not make them pull the trigger, but it's good value to the point where you wouldn't look at it objectively and say "it's a fleecing."

It is reaosnable to say, sorry, it doesn't fit for our needs, we need a 2C and we think #4 better fits our goal for that, totally cool. But to be like "oh, just give us more pieces that we don't really need just becasue" IMO is not how professionals conduct business. Just my opinion.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Who the heck is Made Pitch?

 

[Viqsi]

Totally fine.

Briere is doing his job, and if CLB is saying that #4 is the only way to satisfy their org's needs, completely reasonable position.

But I think the value is there. It does not mean that the deal will happen.

If the deal is 12 + Farabee + Col 1st, I think that is a pretty substantial offer for CLB. More than any top 5 pick offer than I've seen recently. It still may not make them pull the trigger, but it's good value to the point where you wouldn't look at it objectively and say "it's a fleecing."

It is reaosnable to say, sorry, it doesn't fit for our needs, we need a 2C and we think #4 better fits our goal for that, totally cool. But to be like "oh, just give us more pieces that we don't really need just becasue" IMO is not how professionals conduct business. Just my opinion.

I don't think it's so much "#4 is the only way to satisfy org needs" and more "12 + Farabee + Col 1st does not satisfy org needs to the degree that #4 overall does". But otherwise, yeah, that's fair. It's not like it's some kind of Insulting Ripoff Attempt or anything like that (at least, not from our perspective). It's a fair try.

 

[Indy18]

I think then the disconnect here is that we're trying to come up with something that would work for us since it's an interesting conversation topic. Or, at least, interesting to Jackets fans; it's probably a horror show to Flyers fans. Which, y'know, we ought to understand and be sympathetic towards. I mean, y'all hate Pittsburgh too, so you can't be that bad.

I just don't see a good match, but apparently Briere's been trying anyways.

Seriously can't blame Briere for going all in here.

I still say Konecny was the offer because that's legit the only player I can see Waddell going "ok...this could work" especially if the hang up is over a 1st round pick (which Dom is right the Avs pick is just slightly short based on his model barring whoever the player is...and that makes me sick to admit I agree with Dom on something)

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Id rather have Demidov than any of these trades honestly. We have a strong prospect pool, no need to move down to acquire more picks.

 

[TheKingPin]

I legit don't know of any roster player on the Flyers that would make that acceptable to the Jackets. The chief need here is a #3 or higher shutdown defenseman, and the Flyers just don't have that. Any bonus picks are just noise; we don't have the time to let them develop without causing our existing prospects to stagnate and fail.

You are crazy. Getting a 12 and 32 in this draft alone would be great. There are so many of the same level players after 2. Then you add in Farabee and maybe more? I’d love that return for the Flyers if we had 4 OA in this draft.

 

[Viqsi]

You are crazy. Getting a 12 and 32 in this draft alone would be great. There are so many of the same level players after 2. Then you add in Farabee and maybe more? I’d love that return for the Flyers if we had 4 OA in this draft.

It's less about value and more about organizational fit. Take a breather, read through the rest of the thread, and get caught up on things, and then consider following up.

 

[Indy18]

Id rather have Demidov than any of these trades honestly. We have a strong prospect pool, no need to move down to acquire more picks.

Yeah we are in the weird teenage stage of the rebuild. Outside maybe a true 2C we got most of the major pieces if they pan out (KJ, Fantilli, Sillinger, Mateychuk and Jiricek were all top 12) and we don't need more quantity we need more quality but also we are getting to the point where ELCs are turning into bridge contracts and in 2 years then we could be 2010s Buffalo if everything flops.

Also this is a reminder why Top 5 picks are almost NEVER traded...the blood cost in the trade isn't about value...its about organization impact...now. For example the Habs made an offer in 2016 with PK Subban, Lehkonen, 9OA, and their 2017 1st for the Canucks 5OA. Canucks agreed but Canadiens pulled it when Dubois was taken 3rd.

 

[thedjpd]

I don't think it's so much "#4 is the only way to satisfy org needs" and more "12 + Farabee + Col 1st does not satisfy org needs to the degree that #4 overall does". But otherwise, yeah, that's fair. It's not like it's some kind of Insulting Ripoff Attempt or anything like that (at least, not from our perspective). It's a fair try.

yes, that's my point.

But others are saying it should be TK, not Farabee - that doesn't satisfy the org needs anymore than Farabee either, and that's my point. It's just being petulant about demanding more value just because. Deals aren't made without some set purpose.

 

[TheKingPin]

Still depends on the roster player, but yeah, I'd insist on the Flyers 1st too.

It's less about value and more about organizational fit. Take a breather, read through the rest of the thread, and get caught up on things, and then consider following up.

Just did and it’s worse than I thought. You want the Flyers 2025 1st?! That’s insane. That may very well be close to the Jackets’ pick right now if they are trading Laughton and Farabee. For sure with TK traded. And it’s supposed to be a better high end draft next year.

If Demidov slips, I get it. High end talent like that is not worth quantity. But I don’t think he makes it to 4 and you have a GM trying to trade to 4 a day before the draft even starts. That’s such an easy yes for me.