Confirmed with Link: Flyers Great Ryan Johansen Placed On Waivers For Purpose Of Terminating Contract Due To "Material Breach" (NHLPA Files Grievance 9/26)

[mr figgles]

Also I'm getting strong reminders of the time Carter was seen in a bar with fans when he had a broken foot and a bunch of people acted like he should be sitting at home, alone, until the bones healed.

Same thing happened with Forsberg. People saw him out at a restaurant in Center City after missing time with illness, and they went apeshit.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's uncanny how so many people who constantly clamor for more draft picks to aid the rebuild, especially 1sts, complain about the org for taking Johansen in order to gain Colorado's 1st round pick.

They want 1sts, yet are implying the Flyers should have forgone the 1st in order to protect Ryan Johansen's feelings from having to play in the AHL.

Excuse me if I don't feel sorry for a guy making $8M per year because he has to ride buses in the AHL for six weeks before being bought out and becoming a free agent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A PoHO that has never worked in an NHL front office in any capacity whstsoever.

An inexperienced GM whose minuscule hands on experience came under the stewardship of a grossly incompetent GM

A overbearing, narcissistic and petty tyrant of a head coach who holds grudges and plays favorites.

What could possibly go wrong?

So far? Everything.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's uncanny how so many people who constantly clamor for more draft picks to aid the rebuild, especially 1sts, complain about the org for taking Johansen in order to gain Colorado's 1st round pick.

They want 1sts, yet are implying the Flyers should have forgone the 1st in order to protect Ryan Johansen's feelings from having to play in the AHL.

Excuse me if I don't feel sorry for a guy making $8M per year because he has to ride buses in the AHL for six weeks before being bought out and becoming a free agent.

That's not what's being complained about. Try again!

 

[freakydallas13]

It's uncanny how so many people who constantly clamor for more draft picks to aid the rebuild, especially 1sts, complain about the org for taking Johansen in order to gain Colorado's 1st round pick.

It's almost as uncanny as being able to accurately predict who defends this organization nearly every time before you even read their opinions.

 

[Redpath]

It's uncanny how so many people who constantly clamor for more draft picks to aid the rebuild, especially 1sts, complain about the org for taking Johansen in order to gain Colorado's 1st round pick.

They want 1sts, yet are implying the Flyers should have forgone the 1st in order to protect Ryan Johansen's feelings from having to play in the AHL.

Excuse me if I don't feel sorry for a guy making $8M per year because he has to ride buses in the AHL for six weeks before being bought out and becoming a free agent.

Equally laughable is the notion that the Flyers had a hole on the roster where they should have just bit the bullet and fit Johansen in down the stretch.

I'm trying to imagine the collective freakout that would have happened if a post-deadline roster spot was gifted to a veteran cap dump.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Same thing happened with Forsberg. People saw him out at a restaurant in Center City after missing time with illness, and they went apeshit.

Hockey players and pro athletes in general get lauded for playing entire seasons with injuries severe or uncomfortable enough to warrant surgery.

And now I'm expected to believe a class of athlete that can play highest level contact sports through pain can't manage to do a wedding?

What kind of weddings are y'all attending that are as strenuous as an NHL game? Can I attend?

I really badly hope it's nonsense that this had bearing on the Flyers' decision to start this process because they all know better. They know that's not how human bodies work. Many of them have been through it themselves.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Equally laughable is the notion that the Flyers had a hole on the roster where they should have just bit the bullet and fit Johansen in down the stretch.

I'm trying to imagine the collective freakout that would have happened if a post-deadline roster spot was gifted to a veteran cap dump.

I definitely didn't want him playing. But there are other solutions besides burying him in public.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Equally laughable is the notion that the Flyers had a hole on the roster where they should have just bit the bullet and fit Johansen in down the stretch.

I'm trying to imagine the collective freakout that would have happened if a post-deadline roster spot was gifted to a veteran cap dump.

Exactly.

 

[flyersnorth]

It’s almost like we’ll never know what happened when and people are just proving themselves to be fools by having to tell everyone they know exactly what did because they can make an incomplete timeline or one guy said something one time or they can pull 4,000 words out of the CBA.

Understanding what you don’t know is a vital skill.

I'm reminded of the famous Rumsfeld declaration that there are known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knowns, and unknown unknowns.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

So he found a doctor willing to commit malpractice and fraud to steal a few mil from a team? Why will this doctor be ending his career?

Why are we also pretending like we haven't seen examples of guys playing through significant injuries for a long time? It isn't far fetched. Richards and Simmonds leap to mind. It's a thing hockey culture glorifies. Someone willing to play through injury for the NHL may not be willing to play through the same thing for the minor leagues.

Now, the timing of when he's getting surgery makes it look like he's trying to string it out as long as he can and I think we all know why; he doesn't want the AHL and he doesn't want Tortorella. But without more serious proof he's faking it, the "it's all faked" theory is a lot more convoluted at present than the "The Flyers have blown it yet again" theory.

He didn’t want to report to the AHL. He didn’t want to play for Tortorella. He played 63 games with Colorado without getting scratched. His agent said he needed surgery for a injury after he got to Philadelphia.
Has anyone outside of his agent said he did get surgery? The Flyers could of f***ed up the whole thing. But for me things don’t add up.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

One reason I never involve myself (nor care to) in the daily he said/he said of the Flyer drama - from the Tortorella coaching philosophy to the old guard organizational philosophy to what is written or podcast about the team is due to my looking at it like the sewer fight scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian. Eventually, they all perish and we end up with Biggus Dickus.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826294534931910779

Can't wait for the Flyers to get cap screwed right after the season starts .

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ryan Johansen had played in all 63 of Colorado's games as of the time of the trade.

Finds out he's being sent to the AHL for six weeks before the Flyers can buy him out, and suddenly he has a severe hip injury that prevents him from playing any hockey.

Sure, Jan.


Or predict who will find reasons to bash the organization nearly every time before you even read their opinions.

He could have had a hip injury that he was willing to play through in the NHL, but not willing to tolerate that for the AHL. Ego stuff; likewise, his hip injury could be bad enough to be a problem when playing hockey, but not bad enough to keep him from celebrating his own wedding, since weddings are much less demanding than NHL hockey. With a player with his personality, they could have just stashed him in the press box instead of hitting him with demotion and publicly admitting there is nothing he could do to play, because they've entirely ruled it out.



The team also admitted he is injured. In your quest to believe the team always tells the truth, do you now decide they're lying about that? If they lied about that, how do you know they don't lie about other things you've chosen to believe?

The team has admitted he had an injury. Now they're going to try to get his contract cancelled via quibbling about severity? Their case looks weak as hell, and there isn't upside to it. They already muffed it in March, now they're compounding the damage by bolstering the argument that this isn't a player-friendly place.

 

[ponder719]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826294534931910779

Can't wait for the Flyers to get cap screwed right after the season starts .

That only happens if they're incredibly stupid and arrogant. They're a rookie minimum salary over the cap with Johansen on the roster and 13 other forwards; all they have to do between now and the grievance being resolved is nothing, and they can just send someone down for a day to remain cap compliant even if Johansen is forced back onto the cap. Then they put him back on LTIR (presuming here that Johansen winning this grievance comes with a statement that he is, in fact, long term injured), bring back up whoever it was, and just ride it out.

Of course, if they do make moves on the assumption they'll win, and then they don't, that ought to be an immediate firing offense, but we'll cross that bridge once it's burned.

 

[thedjpd]

In the same world where a drunken coach refuse to work with the whole team or know his own prospects for years get fired and his money anyway. In the same world where a coach can bully one of the best offensive prospect of the franchise without the Franchise doing anything against it.

should i continue?

For what? Your argument proves my point. People can always pick and choose what suits them. This for everybody, including you and me. They chose this battle to fight - it’s not my money, it’s not yours. Who are you to tell them what they should or shouldn’t accept with their own money?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

That only happens if they're incredibly stupid and arrogant.

I mean, have you seen our management?

 

[Beef Invictus]

He didn’t want to report to the AHL. He didn’t want to play for Tortorella. He played 63 games with Colorado without getting scratched. His agent said he needed surgery for a injury after he got to Philadelphia.
Has anyone outside of his agent said he did get surgery? The Flyers could of f***ed up the whole thing. But for me things don’t add up.

Flyers said a while ago he has an injury. The injury is there by their own admission, which makes me wonder why they're picking this battle in their war on players. The message they're sending is "Get hurt and we can choose not to believe you and try to take your money."

Whatever is going on here, this is not being handled well at all.

 

[ponder719]

I mean, have you seen our management?

I have. They've spent the entire offseason not doing a goddamn thing to improve the roster, why would they start now?

 

[Curufinwe]

Just a regular injury that lets you play in every possible hockey game from October 11th till March 4th, then stops you from playing any games after that, and prevents you from being declared healthy enough to be bought out in June, but doesn't require surgery to be done between March and late August, but also doesn't prevent you from strutting your stuff at your wedding in that same month.

 

[thedjpd]

He could have had a hip injury that he was willing to play through in the NHL, but not willing to tolerate that for the AHL. Ego stuff; likewise, his hip injury could be bad enough to be a problem when playing hockey, but not bad enough to keep him from celebrating his own wedding, since weddings are much less demanding than NHL hockey. With a player with his personality, they could have just stashed him in the press box instead of hitting him with demotion and publicly admitting there is nothing he could do to play, because they've entirely ruled it out.



The team also admitted he is injured. In your quest to believe the team always tells the truth, do you now decide they're lying about that? If they lied about that, how do you know they don't lie about other things you've chosen to believe?

The team has admitted he had an injury. Now they're going to try to get his contract cancelled via quibbling about severity? Their case looks weak as hell, and there isn't upside to it. They already muffed it in March, now they're compounding the damage by bolstering the argument that this isn't a player-friendly place.

If your first line is true, then he is absolutely in breach of contract! The stipulation isn’t “injured enough not to play in AHL but ok for NHL.” Play or not - period. The team decides where.

We can judge whether they should fight it or not but I’d be pissed if somebody was trying to steal money being a fake as well. Even when offered 2/3 of that to just go away!

 

[Ironmanrulez]

For what? Your argument proves my point. People can always pick and choose what suits them. This for everybody, including you and me. They chose this battle to fight - it’s not my money, it’s not yours. Who are you to tell them what they should or shouldn’t accept with their own money?

Its not about the money. They dont care one bit about that 5.x! They want to have the roster spot and the salary open. They traded for him to get a 1st round pick back. They behaved bad with him in the early hours after the trade. He never ever get on the official roster. Cause Briere said from the very beginning: "He will never play for our hockey team".

If you take on the player by your own choice and behave like you behave, deal with the consequences like a man! Deal with the consequences like a franchise who calls themselves TOUGH and OLDSCHOOL!

You think in the old days they would have terminated a contract for faking injuries?! It would have dealt with behind the curtain! But this Flyers Franchise is full of primadonnas who want to be in the news and want to be important.

Every other day we speak about a new thing about this Franchise. And its always bad news.


For me its like the Dallas Cowboys. They also dont sign their guys early so they can be in the news every f***ing day. But the players dont come to training camp and perform worse the next year!
If this is the new era of orange it will be a very dark orange!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He could have had a hip injury that he was willing to play through in the NHL, but not willing to tolerate that for the AHL. Ego stuff; likewise, his hip injury could be bad enough to be a problem when playing hockey, but not bad enough to keep him from celebrating his own wedding, since weddings are much less demanding than NHL hockey. With a player with his personality, they could have just stashed him in the press box instead of hitting him with demotion and publicly admitting there is nothing he could do to play, because they've entirely ruled it out.



The team also admitted he is injured. In your quest to believe the team always tells the truth, do you now decide they're lying about that? If they lied about that, how do you know they don't lie about other things you've chosen to believe?

The team has admitted he had an injury. Now they're going to try to get his contract cancelled via quibbling about severity? Their case looks weak as hell, and there isn't upside to it. They already muffed it in March, now they're compounding the damage by bolstering the argument that this isn't a player-friendly place.

He's under contract. He played ALL 63 games right up to the trade. Didn't miss one.

Then suddenly the moment he's traded & sent to the AHL he is incapable of playing hockey?

Again, he's under contract. If he doesn't want to report to the AHL, fine, but he doesn't get paid & ultimately his contract gets voided.

Those are the consequences.

And if the injury was that debilitating at the beginning of March, and he needs "extensive" surgery, there's no excuse for it being nearly 6 months later, 3-4 weeks before training camp, and he STILL hasn't had surgery, let alone begun rehab. That never happens.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Just a regular injury that lets you play in every possible hockey game from October 11th till March 4th, then stops you from playing any games after that, and prevents you from being declared healthy enough to be bought out in June, but doesn't require surgery to be done between March and late August, but also doesn't prevent you from strutting your stuff at your wedding in that same month.

I know that you understand that there are different grades of injury, and I know that you understand that players can and do play entire seasons with injuries needing surgery. You don't gotta pretend you don't know these things. A player can be willing to do his team a favor (it often isn't actually a favor because they suck, but whatever) and play through an injury, or maybe the player is too self-absorbed to sit; athletes can be like that, pride is a thing. That doesn't strip him of his right to stop playing through it at any time. Players have rights, including about their health. The Flyers played this badly and now the notoriously problematic player is exercising his rights problematically for them.

Obviously he's milking it as hard as he can with the timing of everything. And obviously he looks like poop. But obviously the Flyers' case isn't strong here when they've admitted he was injured. And if he actually gets surgery? Game over for them. They've possibly managed to be outmaneuvered by a guy with the eyes of a dead cow:

Not good!

 

[ponder719]

You think in the old days they would have terminated a contract for faking injuries?! It would have dealt with behind the curtain! But this Flyers Franchise is full of primadonnas who want to be in the news and want to be important.

In the old days, they'd have given him a real injury to replace the fake one. Not sure that's what we want to be harking back to.