Pre-Game Talk: Florida @ Toronto - Game 1 - Monday 8pm

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

When someone says "systems have changed" I'd expect they have a good breakdown of the systems, so I am asking, I am not interested in some vague things like I am sure you'd say.

It's gone from a run and gun all offense system employed by Keefe.

To a VERY clear defense first system.

Now they wait for the other team to make a mistake and capitalize.

I expect the series against Florida to be very boring to watch the PP will be key.

 

[notbias]

It's gone from a run and gun all offense system employed by Keefe.

To a VERY clear defense first system.

Now they wait for the other team to make a mistake and capitalize.

I expect the series against Florida to be very boring to watch the PP will be key.

Why did we do so well defensively in most series under Keefe with a run and gun system?

 

[Leafsfan74]

 

[TheGreenTBer]

It's gone from a run and gun all offense system employed by Keefe.

To a VERY clear defense first system.

Now they wait for the other team to make a mistake and capitalize.

I expect the series against Florida to be very boring to watch the PP will be key.

The best part is that under Keefe's system we still couldn't score enough in the playoffs lmao.

"Sheldon Keefe: Cuck, the Coach." Coming out on Netflix every April.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Can you be less vague, all you said was dump and chase, and defensive-minded, it isn't really systems, just vague buzzwords.



Tampa has bigger D, plays a physical game, and it didn't work out well for them, they couldn't keep the puck out of the center of the ice.

They also have a better goalie.

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I am curious about systems because you brought it up and said the systems are much better... no systems have been mentioned.

"Can you be less vague, all you said was dump and chase, and defensive-minded, it isn't really systems, just vague buzzwords."

Seems pretty clear to me and others. If you can't see it the problem is with you.

"Tampa has bigger D, plays a physical game, and it didn't work out well for them, they couldn't keep the puck out of the center of the ice."

They do but their top defenceman suffered a broken foot in game 4 and played with it in both games. Besides his injury their were other injuries that contributed to Tampa losing in 5 games. Cirelli, Gourde, Kucherov, and Hagel all had injuries.

"They also have a better goalie."

They do, but he wasn't very good in that series. 3.27 GAA and .872 SV%.

Why can't you accept that this Leaf team plays differently than it did a few years ago? Stop clinging to your love for the previous administration and admit that Berube and Treliving have this team better prepared for the playoffs in 2025 through their changes in personnel and system of play.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Why did we do so well defensively in most series under Keefe with a run and gun system?

We didn't he lost almost every time.

 

[notbias]

"Can you be less vague, all you said was dump and chase, and defensive-minded, it isn't really systems, just vague buzzwords."

Seems pretty clear to me and others. If you can't see it the problem is with you.

"Tampa has bigger D, plays a physical game, and it didn't work out well for them, they couldn't keep the puck out of the center of the ice."

They do but their top defenceman suffered a broken foot in game 4 and played with it in both games. Besides his injury their were other injuries that contributed to Tampa losing in 5 games. Cirelli, Gourde, Kucherov, and Hagel all had injuries.

"They also have a better goalie."

They do, but he wasn't very good in that series. 3.27 GAA and .872 SV%.

Why can't you accept that this Leaf team plays differently than it did a few years ago? Stop clinging to your love for the previous administration and admit that Berube and Treliving have this team better prepared for the playoffs in 2025 through their changes in personnel and system of play.

I'm hoping someone will explain how instead of just saying they play better systems.

I don't believe anyone does anything more than think they play better systems because they don't know the systems they play.

We didn't he lost almost every time.

Due to a lack of scoring usually, yes, he did.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I'm hoping someone will explain how instead of just saying they play better systems.

I don't believe anyone does anything more than think they play better systems because they don't know the systems they play.



Due to a lack of scoring usually, yes, he did.

What exactly are you looking for when someone says a team plays a certain system. Are you asking for numbers e.g. a 2-1-2 forecheck? Are you asking for pie graphs, pictographs, algorithms, heat maps? Clarify for me.

 

[notbias]

What exactly are you looking for when someone says a team plays a certain system. Are you asking for numbers e.g. a 2-1-2 forecheck? Are you asking for pie graphs, pictographs, algorithms, heat maps? Clarify for me.

Anything other than "defensive minded"...

I was hoping to be educated more on the exact systems they are running since you brought that up as a thing that was improved, so you surely know...

For example, you can explain how they defended under Keefe vs now, and how that will do well against how Florida attacks, that'd be a good start, you can use whatever visuals you think are required, but words should be fine.

Things like discussing the size of the defense or them clogging up the center is not a system.

 

[colchar]

What exactly are you looking for when someone says a team plays a certain system. Are you asking for numbers e.g. a 2-1-2 forecheck? Are you asking for pie graphs, pictographs, algorithms, heat maps? Clarify for me.

He's a Kyle Dubious fanboi so he wants spreadsheets, always spreadsheets.

 

[notbias]

He's a Kyle Dubious fanboi so he wants spreadsheets, always spreadsheets.

Always fun when the mouth breathers get upset with numbers, but no, I was looking for some actual systems.

When someone claims the systems have improved, it'd be nice for someone to describe how instead of just "trust me".

Systems, coaching, D, and goaltending have all improved, this should be a cakewalk, but I am really curious about the systems we run and how they will do against Florida's systems.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Anything other than "defensive minded"...

I was hoping to be educated more on the exact systems they are running since you brought that up as a thing that was improved, so you surely know...

For example, you can explain how they defended under Keefe vs now, and how that will do well against how Florida attacks, that'd be a good start, you can use whatever visuals you think are required, but words should be fine.

Things like discussing the size of the defense or them clogging up the center is not a system.

I already explained a change when I said dump and chase vs possession and how one can lead to more risky plays. A more defensive minded approach by making simple plays, clearing the puck out of their zone rather possessing and carrying the puck out. Those are changes in philosophy which are or can lead to changes in system.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

He's a Kyle Dubious fanboi so he wants spreadsheets, always spreadsheets.

I know, I’m trying to show him the error of his ways lol. Hockey is more than spreadsheets and many aspects of the game can’t be solely be analyzed using spreadsheets.

 

[notbias]

I know, I’m trying to show him the error of his ways lol. Hockey is more than spreadsheets and many aspects of the game can’t be solely be analyzed using spreadsheets.

You've said dump and chase and off the glass and out as the systems they are running, and you think you are educating anyone?

I already explained a change when I said dump and chase vs possession and how one can lead to more risky plays. A more defensive minded approach by making simple plays, clearing the puck out of their zone rather possessing and carrying the puck out. Those are changes in philosophy which are or can lead to changes in system.

I give up...

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You've said dump and chase and off the glass and out as the systems they are running, and you think you are educating anyone?



I give up...

Lmao, you’re the one that’s frustrated??? Several people and me have CLEARLY explained changes in system and you continue to ignore them or dispute them. You have not clearly elucidated what it is you think a system is. Lol I give up my brother.

 

[colchar]

Always fun when the mouth breathers get upset with numbers

So I'm a mouth breather upset over numbers? Sorry Skippy, but I guarantee I am far more educated than you.

 

[colchar]

I give up...

We really wish you would.

 

[PanniniClaus]

You've said dump and chase and off the glass and out as the systems they are running, and you think you are educating anyone?



I give up...

I can give you a breakdown if I have time, tomorrow. Tonight is unlikely.

 

[The Shadow]

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You've said dump and chase and off the glass and out as the systems they are running, and you think you are educating anyone?



I give up...

“Dump and chase” is a simplified expression for a system of play so that the uneducated can easier understand the system of not maintaining possession of the puck entering a zone but rather losing possession for the purpose of forechecking and creating turnovers in the opposition zone. If you need it any simpler than that I’ll have to take out my old Dr Seuss books.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I can give you a breakdown if I have time, tomorrow. Tonight is unlikely.

I did it for you Pannini, lol

 

[ACC1224]

Why did we do so well defensively in most series under Keefe with a run and gun system?

Keefe isn’t coaching either Team in tomorrow nights game.

 

[Gallagbi]

You've said dump and chase and off the glass and out as the systems they are running, and you think you are educating anyone?



I give up...

Keefe was more possession focused and we were spread in our defensive zone for more individual coverage (not always man on man), but we played wider defensively and were on the puck quicker.

Berube has us playing more condensed in the defensive slot, we give up possession to forecheck and dump more often offensively. The collapsed defensive coverage leads to more counter and rush chances, which is where a lot of our offense seems to come from now

Keefe wasn't bad defensively at all, and it showed in the numbers. Run and gun is a pretty terrible and lazy description of past Leafs teams.

 

[DarkKnight]

It's gone from a run and gun all offense system employed by Keefe.

To a VERY clear defense first system.

Now they wait for the other team to make a mistake and capitalize.

I expect the series against Florida to be very boring to watch the PP will be key.

Everyone on the team says we play different lol, if you're actually still arguing it's similar you're either an idiot or being argumentative for its own sake, our both. We were a possession team for years, take the puck in and hold it. Now we dump constantly and pressure on the forecheck. On defence we move everything to the outside, allow more shots but better angles. We collapse down low, look for the lanes, Keefe had us up higher pressuring the points. We're way more physical on the wall. Keefe and Berube are very different style wise, as are Tre and Dubas in how they construct a team. I can't believe any serious person would try to argue otherwise at this point.

 

[Stephen]

It's gone from a run and gun all offense system employed by Keefe.

To a VERY clear defense first system.

Now they wait for the other team to make a mistake and capitalize.

I expect the series against Florida to be very boring to watch the PP will be key.

I wouldn't have characterized Keefe's system as run and gun. I think there was a bit of a mischaracterization. But they did try to hold the puck more, enter the offensive zone with possession, try to retreat with the puck to keep possession, used a lot of east west lateral play, and were very liberal with green lighting the defense to start the rush, activate for a pinch and try to odd man advantage in the ozone.

I don't think the Leafs were ever that irresponsible defensively at all, but I'd say their risk sliders were a lot higher which made them more prone to catastrophic breakdowns. They also had the wrong personnel on D to play that way. Dmen were never talented enough to pull off what they were given leash to do, and their blueline just didn't have the kind of size and composure to absorb physical forecheck and pressure.