Post-Game Talk: Flightless birds destroy the lowly Canadiens

[Lafleurs Guy]

Worst period in Habs history?

I only watched the third.

Yep. Pretty damn bad.

 

[LaP]

Losing doesn’t become winning no matter how much you want it to. They have to learn to win, to play with an edge, to close out games, etc.

They have to learn to show up to play.

Can't do that in front of Primeau though. I've played in front of a goalie who could not stop a beach ball and it feels hopeless at one point you give up when everything goes in. Primeau saves % is 836 i can't remembver such a low saves % even in the 80ies. Maybe Steve Penney but Steve Penney sucked hard and was replaced quickly. Primeau is 25 we should have seen enough.

[edit] I just checked and Primeau's saves % is the lowest single season saves % since 1960 for a CH goalie who have played 10 games. The 2nd lowest is drumroll .... Penney who was not a NHL goalie by any stretch of the imagination.

1	Cayden Primeau	2024-25	MTL	L	11	2	3	--	1	250	209	41	.836	4.70	523:42
2	Steve Penney	1985-86	MTL	R	18	6	8	2	--	447	375	72	.839	4.38	986:52
3	Andre Racicot	1993-94	MTL	L	11	2	6	2	--	246	209	37	.850	4.44	499:31
4	Rick Wamsley	1983-84	MTL	L	42	19	17	3	--	977	833	144	.853	3.71	2325:53
5	Doug Soetaert	1984-85	MTL	L	28	14	9	4	--	621	530	91	.853	3.41	1600:12

 

[Runner77]

Who wants him to back up Monty? Can't be worse than Primeau.

 

[habbubba]

I only watched the third.

Yep. Pretty damn bad.

In Quebec it's pronounced as turd.lol

 

[Runner77]

and you live underneath it in the dankness using a puddle for a mirror,right? lol

Don’t forget the trolls and ferrets.

 

[themilosh]

Can't do that in front of Primeau though. I've played in front of a goalie who could not stop a beach ball and it feels hopeless at one point you give up when everything goes in. Primeau saves % is 836 i can't remembver such a low saves % even in the 80ies. Maybe Steve Penney but Steve Penney sucked hard and was replaced quickly. Primeau is 25 we should have seen enough.

[edit] I just checked and Primeau's saves % is the lowest single season saves % since 1960 for a CH goalie who have played 10 games. The 2nd lowest is drumroll .... Penney who was not a NHL goalie by any stretch of the imagination.

1	Cayden Primeau	2024-25	MTL	L	11	2	3	--	1	250	209	41	.836	4.70	523:42
2	Steve Penney	1985-86	MTL	R	18	6	8	2	--	447	375	72	.839	4.38	986:52
3	Andre Racicot	1993-94	MTL	L	11	2	6	2	--	246	209	37	.850	4.44	499:31
4	Rick Wamsley	1983-84	MTL	L	42	19	17	3	--	977	833	144	.853	3.71	2325:53
5	Doug Soetaert	1984-85	MTL	L	28	14	9	4	--	621	530	91	.853	3.41	1600:12

and that was during the high flying 80s where a 3.00GAA was considered solid.

While I am on board the HMS Tank, I do agree that having a sieve as goalie is not only unfair to the players but brutal on psyche... He should be put on waivers and let go, there is no room in the NHL for these type numbers.

 

[ReHabs]

Can't do that in front of Primeau though. I've played in front of a goalie who could not stop a beach ball and it feels hopeless at one point you give up when everything goes in. Primeau saves % is 836 i can't remembver such a low saves % even in the 80ies. Maybe Steve Penney but Steve Penney sucked hard and was replaced quickly. Primeau is 25 we should have seen enough.

[edit] I just checked and Primeau's saves % is the lowest single season saves % since 1960 for a CH goalie who have played 10 games. The 2nd lowest is drumroll .... Penney who was not a NHL goalie by any stretch of the imagination.

1	Cayden Primeau	2024-25	MTL	L	11	2	3	--	1	250	209	41	.836	4.70	523:42
2	Steve Penney	1985-86	MTL	R	18	6	8	2	--	447	375	72	.839	4.38	986:52
3	Andre Racicot	1993-94	MTL	L	11	2	6	2	--	246	209	37	.850	4.44	499:31
4	Rick Wamsley	1983-84	MTL	L	42	19	17	3	--	977	833	144	.853	3.71	2325:53
5	Doug Soetaert	1984-85	MTL	L	28	14	9	4	--	621	530	91	.853	3.41	1600:12

Exactly. Hughes needs to get off his hands and put an NHL quality goaler in there.

 

[Runner77]

Can't do that in front of Primeau though. I've played in front of a goalie who could not stop a beach ball and it feels hopeless at one point you give up when everything goes in. Primeau saves % is 836 i can't remembver such a low saves % even in the 80ies. Maybe Steve Penney but Steve Penney sucked hard and was replaced quickly. Primeau is 25 we should have seen enough.

[edit] I just checked and Primeau's saves % is the lowest single season saves % since 1960 for a CH goalie who have played 10 games. The 2nd lowest is drumroll .... Penney who was not a NHL goalie by any stretch of the imagination.

1	Cayden Primeau	2024-25	MTL	L	11	2	3	--	1	250	209	41	.836	4.70	523:42
2	Steve Penney	1985-86	MTL	R	18	6	8	2	--	447	375	72	.839	4.38	986:52
3	Andre Racicot	1993-94	MTL	L	11	2	6	2	--	246	209	37	.850	4.44	499:31
4	Rick Wamsley	1983-84	MTL	L	42	19	17	3	--	977	833	144	.853	3.71	2325:53
5	Doug Soetaert	1984-85	MTL	L	28	14	9	4	--	621	530	91	.853	3.41	1600:12

Expand that chart to all time, regardless of NHL team, and Primeau nabs the second worst save percentage in history for goalies having played 10 games or more:

DéPrimeau played 11 minutes, 19 seconds yesterday, faced 7 shots and only made 4 saves.

Source: HabsolmentFan

 

[Pat Riot]

Expand that chart to all time, regardless of NHL team, and Primeau nabs the second worst save percentage in history for goalies having played 10 games or more:

DéPrimeau played 11 minutes, 19 seconds yesterday, faced 7 shots and only made 4 saves.

Source: HabsolmentFan

Primeau is the tank commander in chief

 

[dcyhabs]

Moves? Plural? Kent Hughes??

Nah not his style.

Buddy how about just one move to cut the bleeding — a new back up goalie, so our players don’t give up 3 minutes into a 60min contest.

It’s the fans who got Michkov catastrophically wrong. Not the lovely Kent Hughes?

It’s the fans who traded away a potential Hutson and Hage for Newhook… not super manager Kent Hughes?

It’s the fans who have managed the worst record in Habs history… not Kent Hughes?

The fans must’ve been the ones not monitoring Dach’s rehab and fitness too.

Damn fans, they always get in the way of Kent Hughes’ great work.

You can blame a lot of guys, but

Can't do that in front of Primeau though. I've played in front of a goalie who could not stop a beach ball and it feels hopeless at one point you give up when everything goes in. Primeau saves % is 836 i can't remembver such a low saves % even in the 80ies. Maybe Steve Penney but Steve Penney sucked hard and was replaced quickly. Primeau is 25 we should have seen enough.

[edit] I just checked and Primeau's saves % is the lowest single season saves % since 1960 for a CH goalie who have played 10 games. The 2nd lowest is drumroll .... Penney who was not a NHL goalie by any stretch of the imagination.

1	Cayden Primeau	2024-25	MTL	L	11	7	2	3	--	1	250	209	41	.836	4.70	523:42	0	0	0	0	2
2	Steve Penney	1985-86	MTL	R	18	17	6	8	2	--	447	375	72	.839	4.38	986:52	0	0	0	0	0
3	Andre Racicot	1993-94	MTL	L	11	9	2	6	2	--	246	209	37	.850	4.44	499:31	0	0	0	0	0
4	Rick Wamsley	1983-84	MTL	L	42	41	19	17	3	--	977	833	144	.853	3.71	2325:53	2	0	3	3	6
5	Doug Soetaert	1984-85	MTL	L	28	26	14	9	4	--	621	530	91	.853	3.41	1600:12	0	0	0	0	4

You have to consider the team, though. Penney had one goodish year, or at least a year when he showed that even a pretty terrible goalie could outplay Sevigny and Wamsley, but he played behind a very good defence. Those goalies wasted the older years of Shutt, Lafleur, Robinson, Gainey... Racicot and Wamsley weren't great, but that was Racicot's worst season by almost 0.040. Soetaert was up and down, he had a good year or two, but he had a good D, too. Primeau is playing behind a really weak D.

Condon looked pretty bad here, and much better elsewhere. I don't think Primeau is likely to be that different, but some nights there is just no hope whoever is in nets, and his stats reflect that. The stats reflect good habs teams way back, and good goaltending in recent years, when the team was bad.

You have to consider the years, too. Patrick Roy had a 0.875 in the cup year. The '80s were nuts.

Montembeault was pretty good yesterday until Crosby really left him with no chance on a couple, and the whole team structure disintegrated. There were a bunch of plays where 10 seconds before the goal it was pretty clear the Pens would score. Odd man rushes where you could see the Pens had a pretty good idea of what they were going to do and the habs players were completely outmatched.

I'm happier that the team is inconsistent, solid wins and blowout losses, as opposed to consistent close games with as many wins and losses. The team is young, they haven't learned to deal with adversity, they don't have a shutdown player who can cope with Crosby in the way, say Subban and Danault did in various games. A couple of years, a couple more players, notably a true #1D, and the team will be good.

Crosby was able to manipulate and undress the habs in a way McDavid completely failed to a few games ago. The difference between a cerebral player and a physical freak. That may point to coaching and systems, and it may just point to young players who tired, physically and mentally. The team is pretty bad when they are behind. They are not a good team at the best of times, but they get worse when they are down a goal or two.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Low hanging fruit. We can’t expect much more from Warm Hands Hughes.

If only he had your itchy trigger finger, then he would be posting here instead of you.

 

[CHfan1]

Fair enough.

But Tampa Bay didn't even know they had superstars. They emerged over the years. Kucherov wasn't even drafted in the first round. You coulnd't have predicted Braden Point would be as good as he was.

We're in stage one of a rebuild. We don't know how good Demidov or Hutson or Fowler or RB or even Slaf will be. Even CC hasn't really established himself yet. I think it's safe to say we have a couple of potential stars and a lot of really good young prospects. Maybe we won't have the high end talent of Tampa (few teams do) but I don't think we'll come out of this rebuild without at least a superstar - probably two or three.

Agreed. My post was more about comparing Montreal’s roster now (especially the top players) to Tampa’s.

As far as the rebuild goes, yeah Montreal is definitely in stage one, and it’s going to take time as most of their top prospects are playing in other leagues.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed. My post was more about comparing Montreal’s roster now (especially the top players) to Tampa’s.

As far as the rebuild goes, yeah Montreal is definitely in stage one, and it’s going to take time as most of their top prospects are playing in other leagues.

Very few teams (even cup winners) are as good as Tampa’s were. Amazing they did it with the cap.

If we got anywhere close I’d be really happy.

 

[ReHabs]

If only he had your itchy trigger finger, then he would be posting here instead of you.

You’ve seen someone else comment above how Primeau is among the worst goalies in Habs history. Not sure what else you want if you won’t concede even this.

Is it a PR thing for you? Are you invested in making sure there’s no criticism of the GM…?

I’m perfectly happy with my job and business. I don’t need to work for the Habs to know losing doesn’t lead to winning. Warm Hands Hughes has only presided over losing. I’ll assume he will bring more success when he brings some success for the Habs.

He can’t even fix the worst goaltending ever. Why do we have to assume he will fix anything else? It’s hard, it isn’t PlayStation, improvements just aren’t available, he won’t mortgage the future, etc.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I didn’t say to make a move for the sake of making a move, did I?

It's like we're back in the Bergevin days where there are no good moves to be found anywhere.

Any trade we make now has to be a bad trade, yadda yadda. Clearly things are not working, so maybe our GM should do his job and make a GOOD trade.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

You’ve seen someone else comment above how Primeau is among the worst goalies in Habs history. Not sure what else you want if you won’t concede even this.

Is it a PR thing for you? Are you invested in making sure there’s no criticism of the GM…?

I’m perfectly happy with my job and business. I don’t need to work for the Habs to know losing doesn’t lead to winning. Warm Hands Hughes has only presided over losing. I’ll assume he will bring more success when he brings some success for the Habs.

I didn't say Primeau wasn't terrible, what I said is making a trade now is not in our best interests. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[LaP]

Expand that chart to all time, regardless of NHL team, and Primeau nabs the second worst save percentage in history for goalies having played 10 games or more:

DéPrimeau played 11 minutes, 19 seconds yesterday, faced 7 shots and only made 4 saves.

Source: HabsolmentFan

I love how the top 10 is all 80ies goalies but Primeau and Martin. And Martin is not on Carolina's lineup anymore he's back in the AHL.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I didn't say Primeau wasn't terrible, what I said is making a trade now is not in our best interests. Seems pretty simple to me.

I think Primeau is not long for this world. I can see a move being made soon.

 

[ReHabs]

I didn't say Primeau wasn't terrible, what I said is making a trade now is not in our best interests. Seems pretty simple to me.

Playing in front of a sieve and losing games within minutes of puck drop is not in our best interests. Players giving up before they’ve broken a sweat is not in our interests.

Warm Hands Hughes might want to lose but losing + juicing a losing culture is not in the Habs’ best interests. And if Warm Hands Hughes thinks it is, I want him and his motley crew of losers fired.

Zero interest in becoming Buffalo Nord. We have no accountability and no self-respect. Slafkvosky is ice skating out there and his mega contract hasn’t even kicked in. God forbid Warm Hands Hughes makes a minor move to bring in better goaltending.

No, better to lose without a fight as many of the 55 games remaining this year. Next year is our year, this year is just in the way.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I love how the top 10 is all 80ies goalies but Primeau and Martin. And Martin is not on Carolina's lineup anymore he's back in the AHL.

Loved Steve Penny! How could you not? That run was amazing. Too bad he didn’t tune out in the long run but along came Patrick.

 

[LaP]

Very few teams (even cup winners) are as good as Tampa’s were. Amazing they did it with the cap.

If we got anywhere close I’d be really happy.

I'm too young to have seen his "run". My earliest memories are 86ish. The few years i've seen Penney he sucked badly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm too young to have seen his "run". My earliest memories are 86ish. The few years i've seen Penney he sucked badly.

In 85 he had an amazing playoff. He was incredible. Then the next year he lost his job to Toy.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Honestly, does anyone see the drive or any intensity from Dach. You can’t have that kind of guy in the bottom 6. And the way he is playing, he should not be anywhere near top 6 or PP.

This guy needs to so sit in the press box in the worst way

But he's so big, MOAR size please.

 

[LaP]

You can blame a lot of guys, but

You have to consider the team, though. Penney had one goodish year, or at least a year when he showed that even a pretty terrible goalie could outplay Sevigny and Wamsley, but he played behind a very good defence. Those goalies wasted the older years of Shutt, Lafleur, Robinson, Gainey... Racicot and Wamsley weren't great, but that was Racicot's worst season by almost 0.040. Soetaert was up and down, he had a good year or two, but he had a good D, too. Primeau is playing behind a really weak D.

Condon looked pretty bad here, and much better elsewhere. I don't think Primeau is likely to be that different, but some nights there is just no hope whoever is in nets, and his stats reflect that. The stats reflect good habs teams way back, and good goaltending in recent years, when the team was bad.

You have to consider the years, too. Patrick Roy had a 0.875 in the cup year. The '80s were nuts.

Montembeault was pretty good yesterday until Crosby really left him with no chance on a couple, and the whole team structure disintegrated. There were a bunch of plays where 10 seconds before the goal it was pretty clear the Pens would score. Odd man rushes where you could see the Pens had a pretty good idea of what they were going to do and the habs players were completely outmatched.

I'm happier that the team is inconsistent, solid wins and blowout losses, as opposed to consistent close games with as many wins and losses. The team is young, they haven't learned to deal with adversity, they don't have a shutdown player who can cope with Crosby in the way, say Subban and Danault did in various games. A couple of years, a couple more players, notably a true #1D, and the team will be good.

Crosby was able to manipulate and undress the habs in a way McDavid completely failed to a few games ago. The difference between a cerebral player and a physical freak. That may point to coaching and systems, and it may just point to young players who tired, physically and mentally. The team is pretty bad when they are behind. They are not a good team at the best of times, but they get worse when they are down a goal or two.

How good or bad a team is doesn't have that much influence on a goalies save %. Not as much as his GAA.

For example last year Mrazek had a saves % of 906 in 56 games playing for Chicago. In 2016-2017 the avs finished with only 48 points 21 points behind the 2nd last position and Calvin Pickard had a saves % of 904 in 50 games. I mean Primeau saves % is the 2nd worst in league's history for all teams (minimum 10 games played). It's worse than any goalies who played for the Nords in the 80ies i mean .... in 1988-1989 the Nordiques finished last in the league with 66 points and Tugnutt had a saves % of 891 in 26 games and Gosselin 868 in 39 games.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Playing in front of a sieve and losing games within minutes of puck drop is not in our best interests. Players giving up before they’ve broken a sweat is not in our interests.

Warm Hands Hughes might want to lose but losing + juicing a losing culture is not in the Habs’ best interests. And if Warm Hands Hughes thinks it is, I want him and his motley crew of losers fired.

Zero interest in becoming Buffalo Nord. We have no accountability and no self-respect. Slafkvosky is ice skating out there and his mega contract hasn’t even kicked in. God forbid Warm Hands Hughes makes a minor move to bring in better goaltending.

No, better to lose without a fight as many of the 55 games remaining this year. Next year is our year, this year is just in the way.

Right and how does replacing the back up change any of that again? You've failed to explain that position.