Fix the income tax debate

[BHuddy]

Just get rid of the Cap. Then we can all go back to hockey markets actually winning. Pretty ridiculous the other 24+ owners haven’t put their foot down on this. I would hope***** that most are smart w their money, but it’s starting to show most NHL owners are actually clueless.

 

[bigbadbruins1]

Another idea, brought up but @danisonfire , is to have their cap hit directly tied to their take home pay.

 

[bigbadbruins1]

When did this start becoming an issue? I’ve been on this site for a long time and it wasn’t until the Florida teams started finding success that this was ever brought up.

don't leave out TBL and Vegas,.

It wasn't an issue because NHL contracts were low in terms of cost. Now that they are handing out 100m+ contracts, its an issue because you are forfeiting what is likely 10+m, because of taxes.

 

[DuklaNation]

I've never met someone who makes above $500,000 who didn't obsess about taxes to some degree. Never.

 

[Crow]

Just get rid of the salary cap. Problem solved.

Just get rid of all state taxes. Problem solved.

 

[Hunter368]

Just abolish the cap and let the free market take care of itself, and get rid of bigger markets having to share revenue.

How does that fix anything, it just makes it worse lol. You have the haves and have nots in the NHL, the have nots have a significantly harder time winning the cup. Your suggestion would just lead to same 5-8 teams winning the majority of the time.

 

[Hunter368]

Just get rid of all state taxes. Problem solved.

Great idea, but governments will never do that

 

[majormajor]

Just apply the cap to post-tax income. Problem solved.

Currently different teams have different "income caps". Even it out.

 

[Claypool]

How does that fix anything, it just makes it worse lol. You have the haves and have nots in the NHL, the have nots have a significantly harder time winning the cup. Your suggestion would just lead to same 5-8 teams winning the majority of the time.

How is that any different than what's happening now?

In the old system, players didn't hit free agency until 31. Now it's 26. Small market teams lose their players even faster now.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

When did this start becoming an issue? I’ve been on this site for a long time and it wasn’t until the Florida teams started finding success that this was ever brought up.

Prior to the last 8 years or so, Southern markets barely ever spent to the cap due to financial constraints and ownership so it was never reallly an issue. Tampa got an owner who was willing to spend and things kind of started from there.

 

[93LEAFS]

The NHL is a competitor to the other NA major leagues. Doing this would be a great way to ensure it falls behind even more.

Also 80% of NHL owners would be completely against this. It would destroy NHL team valuations too.

It hasn't really gained on the other big 4 leagues in the past 20 years of the cap. Their revenue has basically improved at a similar rate, and is still a very distant last place.

 

[nogatco rd]

Maybe no salary cap wasn't such a bad thing, players are playing a dangerous game fleeing the teams that actually make the league money for small, warm market tax havens.

Franchises that seem to be nonstop dysfunction and/or underperformance (Vancouver, Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo until recently) will always struggle to retain talent and attract UFA’s.

If you build something people want to be a part of, guys will put up with the extra taxes and cold weather. Canadiens’ future is looking pretty damn bright and all of a sudden Buffalo’s is too.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

It hasn't really gained on the other big 4 leagues in the past 20 years of the cap. Their revenue has basically improved at a similar rate, and is still a very distant last place.

The NFL has far more revenue sharing than the NHL and it basically ensures every team can spend to the cap and still turn a profit. NBA has a soft cap.

Hockey is still a niche sport and that means it will be in uphill battle for a lot of markets. Owners have spent hundreds of millions to buy teams in a cap league. They’re not going to throw that away and watch their assets free fall in value.

 

[paulmm3]

Nah. Different places have different appeals. Part of the game.

 

[nogatco rd]

Just get rid of the Cap. Then we can all go back to hockey markets actually winning. Pretty ridiculous the other 24+ owners haven’t put their foot down on this.

Ah yes, the pre-cap era of the 80s 90s and early 2000s, when big market teams like the Leafs Blackhawks and Rangers famously dominated the rest of the league

 

[SC Cannon]

Nah. Different places have different appeals. Part of the game.

Agree. There's no sports with a cap that does this, is there?

 

[Hunter368]

How is that any different than what's happening now?

In the old system, players didn't hit free agency until 31. Now it's 26. Small market teams lose their players even faster now.

I never said the solution is going back to old system, UFA at 31, just saying this system clearly favours bigger markets and tax benefits. Governments won’t fix it ever. Unbalanced playing field.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

The solution is vote in better people that won’t tax people to death. This is why the moment I retire from the military I am leaving California. I get to dodge California taxes due to being in the military, the second I get my retirement paperwork I am gone and to a state with low or no income taxes. I’ll be selling my house in California and putting it a trust out of state till it ages bye bye a horrible tax state.

 

[Laus723]

While it has constantly be raised, it is becoming more and more apparent as the cap increases, the teams in no or low income tax states will gain benefits for the higher tier players. A solution came to mind that I think would be fair, an NHLPA escrow of 20%( or whatever is agreed upon) and if they are in a state with income tax, that income tax % is deducted from the escrow %. Probably not the first time this idea has been floated, but I think with 100m+ contracts being thrown around, and players NTC/NMC teams always including multiple no income tax states, it should be at least considered.

Also take into account, while it may not directly correlate, that 5 of the last 7 stanley cup champions are from no income tax states. ( TB, TB, COL, LV, FL, FL, CAR)

A tax team just beat a no tax team. How bout teams like Edmonton take the money handed them by their mega star and not give it all to players like Frederic.

 

[Claypool]

Ah yes, the pre-cap era of the 80s 90s and early 2000s, when big market teams like the Leafs Blackhawks and Rangers famously dominated the rest of the league

None of those teams dominated during those eras lol

 

[93LEAFS]

The NFL has far more revenue sharing than the NHL and it basically ensures every team can spend to the cap and still turn a profit. NBA has a soft cap.

Hockey is still a niche sport and that means it will be in uphill battle for a lot of markets. Owners have spent hundreds of millions to buy teams in a cap league. They’re not going to throw that away and watch their assets free fall in value.

The NFL cap due to non-guarenteed contracts and how you can game it with renegotiations is very different than the NHL's of fully guarenteed contracts with strict cap hits each year and no renegoiations until a players last year (and before we even get into the complexities of void years, and other cap games).

I agree, Owners aren't going to give up the cap now that they have it. Granted, atleast a push to a softer cap with more flexibility would be beneficial. The NHL cap is by far the strictist, which is why it so heavily helps low-tax areas.

But, I don't see how the cap has helped the NHL grow relative to the other leagues. They are in the same spot they were 20 years ago.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

None of those teams dominated during those eras lol

The UFA age was much higher

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

I dunno...i'm starting to think it's less about taxes and more about climate.

Ironically, it seems that players really really want to play in places where there's no snow.

This is the whole get your cake and eating it too thing.

Solution? Tilt the planet a bit so that Canada can start growing palm trees.

Edit: Hockey players are not usually the brightest folks...so it's someone else who's given them that advice. Most of these guys won't be in the league within 5 years of entering it, so it's not unusual to think most of them would like to play where they can maximize their revenue. It just so happens that the players who make 10M a year are also receiving that same advice. Alternatively, should no such tax exist, we'd still have this conversation because most of the players want to live in a warm climate. As an example...I am born and raised as a Canadian. But I moved halfway across the planet so I could live in a tropical climate and never have to shovel my f***ing driveway ever again. And I regret nothing.

 

[Claypool]

The UFA age was much higher

Yes, that's why it was a mistake to lower UFA and implement a cap. Players over 30 are basically kryptonite now with the way the game is played. Small market teams used to have the rights to players through the entire prime. If the league left it all alone and just focused on making the game faster and younger, I think it would be much healthier for the game. Good teams wouldn't be punished for drafting and developing well, and having to tear their team apart after one Cup run.

 

[Sky04]

When did this start becoming an issue? I’ve been on this site for a long time and it wasn’t until the Florida teams started finding success that this was ever brought up.

Because taxes didn't exist before 2020. I find it funny how TB was in 4 of the 8 ECF's between 2011-2018 and nobody mentioned taxes at all.