Fix the income tax debate

[Golden_Jet]

I posted you links, sources and player quotes. All you've done is post me emotion. Nor have you or anyone else provided a reasonable answer as to why this change shouldn't happen. You all just misdirect or pivot to the Leafs.

So ya. I think we are done here kiddo.

Oh and as for the claim of Carolina barley being taxed...here. Here's data. (that thing you can't provide btw)

Canada (highest overall tax burden)​

Montreal Canadiens — ~50%
Toronto Maple Leafs — ~53%
Ottawa Senators — ~50%
Winnipeg Jets — ~47%
Edmonton Oilers — ~48%
Calgary Flames — ~48%
Vancouver Canucks — ~50%

---

High-tax US states​

Minnesota Wild — ~9.85%
New York Rangers — ~10.9%
New York Islanders — ~10.9%
Buffalo Sabres — ~10.9%
Los Angeles Kings — ~13.3%
Anaheim Ducks — ~13.3%
San Jose Sharks — ~13.3%
Boston Bruins — ~5%–9% (varies by bracket effect)

---

Mid-tax US states​

Chicago Blackhawks — ~4.95%
Philadelphia Flyers — ~3–4% local + ~5–6% effective
New Jersey Devils — ~6.5%–10%
Washington Capitals — ~5.75%
St. Louis Blues — ~4.8%
Pittsburgh Penguins — ~3–4%
Columbus Blue Jackets — ~4.8%
Detroit Red Wings — ~4.25%
Colorado Avalanche — ~4.4%

---

Low-tax US states​

Carolina Hurricanes — ~3.99%
Arizona Coyotes (historical) — ~2.5%–4.5%

---

No state income tax (lowest)​

Florida Panthers — 0%
Tampa Bay Lightning — 0%
Dallas Stars — 0%
Vegas Golden Knights — 0%
Nashville Predators — 0%
Seattle Kraken — 0%

Except your comparing apples and oranges.

Your comparing Canadian federal and provincial taxes against just state taxes.

If you want to compare apples to apples then add US federal taxes to the state taxes.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I posted you links, sources and player quotes. All you've done is post me emotion. Nor have you or anyone else provided a reasonable answer as to why this change shouldn't happen. You all just misdirect or pivot to the Leafs.

So ya. I think we are done here kiddo.

Oh and as for the claim of Carolina barley being taxed...here. Here's data. (that thing you can't provide btw)

Canada (highest overall tax burden)​

Montreal Canadiens — ~50%
Toronto Maple Leafs — ~53%
Ottawa Senators — ~50%
Winnipeg Jets — ~47%
Edmonton Oilers — ~48%
Calgary Flames — ~48%
Vancouver Canucks — ~50%

---

High-tax US states​

Minnesota Wild — ~9.85%
New York Rangers — ~10.9%
New York Islanders — ~10.9%
Buffalo Sabres — ~10.9%
Los Angeles Kings — ~13.3%
Anaheim Ducks — ~13.3%
San Jose Sharks — ~13.3%
Boston Bruins — ~5%–9% (varies by bracket effect)

---

Mid-tax US states​

Chicago Blackhawks — ~4.95%
Philadelphia Flyers — ~3–4% local + ~5–6% effective
New Jersey Devils — ~6.5%–10%
Washington Capitals — ~5.75%
St. Louis Blues — ~4.8%
Pittsburgh Penguins — ~3–4%
Columbus Blue Jackets — ~4.8%
Detroit Red Wings — ~4.25%
Colorado Avalanche — ~4.4%

---

Low-tax US states​

Carolina Hurricanes — ~3.99%
Arizona Coyotes (historical) — ~2.5%–4.5%

---

No state income tax (lowest)​

Florida Panthers — 0%
Tampa Bay Lightning — 0%
Dallas Stars — 0%
Vegas Golden Knights — 0%
Nashville Predators — 0%
Seattle Kraken — 0%

Did you just compare Canadian federal + province to just the US state taxes and ignore the US federal taxes which max out at 37%?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Does state income tax matter to NHL players? Response is emphatic yes — ‘Make more money’

Commissioner Gary Bettman has called it "a ridiculous issue," but players overwhelmingly say it is a factor in where they sign. Here's why.

www.nytimes.com

A poll from players...lol

View attachment 1257449

I guess the players are just wrong?

LOL.

Now run a poll, does getting your life threatened when you lose actually matter?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

It’s not false though, they are a low tax state.

Oh I get that forsure.. but I’m just getting a kick out of it cause this is a new excuse this offseason that I have heard for first time

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Except your comparing apples and oranges.

Your comparing Canadian federal and provincial taxes against just state taxes.

If you want to compare apples to apples then add US federal taxes to the state taxes.

The US states get their money one way or another. Check out the property, sales, municipal taxes on these low tax states for overall burden

 

[Golden_Jet]

If he passes his residency test there. Not exactly sure that that is, since states can differ.

Ya he passes the residency test.

 

[Drytoast]

Now run a poll, does getting your life threatened when you lose actually matter?

lol once again. I provide links, sources polls quotes.

This is the only shit these boards can come back with. At least it wasn't a mom joke?

Guess that's somethin.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

lol once again. I provide links, sources polls quotes.

This is the only shit these boards can come back with. At least it wasn't a mom joke?

Guess that's somethin.

You also compared total Canadian tax to just US state tax, so maybe hold off on the strutting.

 

[triggrman]

The so called tax advantage is not as big as you think it is.
People seem to forget income tax is paid on the money earned in the state where the game is played. Obviously low income states have the home game advantage, but all the games on the road its paid where you play.

Also, most of the no state income tax states have a much higher sales tax. Nashville has a 3.5% higher sales tax than Boston, how do we factor that in, sales tax is on every dollar you spend, not just those earned in Nashville. Also, how do you come up with a system that factors in every individual's road game taxes? Does the cap just go up and down for each team daily?

 

[Drytoast]

You also compared total Canadian tax to just US state tax, so maybe hold off on the strutting.

sure. add your base 37 percent. it's still lower. in some cases by almost 20% what's your point? I just posted you a poll from the players themselves telling you it matters. This conversation is over. They have told you all, it matters. We are done here.

Got an argument as to why we can't deal with it now besides your feelings or?

NHL free agency shows teams in states with no income tax have an advantage

When the Tampa Bay Lightning made moves at the NHL draft to clear salary cap space, general manager Julien BriseBois hoped a variety of factors would entice players to sign as free agents.

www.tsn.ca

"Averaging out Reinhart's salary to $8.625 million annually, he owes $3.15 million in taxes in Florida. He would pay $1.1 million more in California, $1.5 million more in New York and $1.4 million more in Toronto, according to a calculator provided publicly by Cardinal Point Athlete Advisors."

(this is where you make some personal insult or something)

 

[Golden_Jet]

The US states get their money one way or another. Check out the property, sales, municipal taxes on these low tax states for overall burden

That doesn’t change the fact that poster is comparing apples to oranges.
Poster needs to add US federal taxes to the state taxes , to compare apples to apples.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

sure. add your base 37 percent. it's still lower. in some cases by almost 20% what's your point? I just posted you a poll from the players themselves telling you it matters. This conversation is over. They have told you all, it matters. We are done here.

Got an argument as to why we can't deal with it now besides your feelings or?

Funny, I don't see in that poll where it says what it matters more than, or what it matters less than.

Just that it matters. Of course it matters. Other things matter too.

 

[PistolPete]

While it has constantly be raised, it is becoming more and more apparent as the cap increases, the teams in no or low income tax states will gain benefits for the higher tier players. A solution came to mind that I think would be fair, an NHLPA escrow of 20%( or whatever is agreed upon) and if they are in a state with income tax, that income tax % is deducted from the escrow %. Probably not the first time this idea has been floated, but I think with 100m+ contracts being thrown around, and players NTC/NMC teams always including multiple no income tax states, it should be at least considered.

Also take into account, while it may not directly correlate, that 5 of the last 7 stanley cup champions are from no income tax states. ( TB, TB, COL, LV, FL, FL, CAR)

You restricted yourself to the past 7 seasons, why?

Because it conveniently made it seem your thesis is right?

You haven't demonstrated that it was merely a coincidence.

Ergo your entire solution is not needed to a problem that you failed to prove real.

Next!

 

[Golden_Jet]

sure. add your base 37 percent. it's still lower. in some cases by almost 20% what's your point? I just posted you a poll from the players themselves telling you it matters. This conversation is over. They have told you all, it matters. We are done here.

Well you were disingenuous on your comparison.

Are you going to update the numbers to be accurate?

 

[Salsero1]

You restricted yourself to the past 7 seasons, why?

Because it conveniently made it seem your thesis is right?

You haven't demonstrated that it was merely a coincidence.

Ergo your entire solution is not needed to a problem that you failed to prove real.

Next!

It's because unworthy markets are currently in a competitive cycle and are enjoying success. It upsets them. That's it.

 

[triggrman]

sure. add your base 37 percent. it's still lower. in some cases by almost 20% what's your point? I just posted you a poll from the players themselves telling you it matters. This conversation is over. They have told you all, it matters. We are done here.

Got an argument as to why we can't deal with it now besides your feelings or?

NHL free agency shows teams in states with no income tax have an advantage

When the Tampa Bay Lightning made moves at the NHL draft to clear salary cap space, general manager Julien BriseBois hoped a variety of factors would entice players to sign as free agents.

www.tsn.ca

"Averaging out Reinhart's salary to $8.625 million annually, he owes $3.15 million in taxes in Florida. He would pay $1.1 million more in California, $1.5 million more in New York and $1.4 million more in Toronto, according to a calculator provided publicly by Cardinal Point Athlete Advisors."

(this is where you make some personal insult or something)

Are we going to adjust for other things that matter like, Location, weather, endorsement opportunities.

Also, Reinhart's tax burden that you used above is being calculated like he played every game at home.

 

[Summer Rose]

The US states get their money one way or another. Check out the property, sales, municipal taxes on these low tax states for overall burden

That and when you use a government office/service/etc. they nickel and dime you on fees. A random example I like to bring up for this one is to compare getting my driver's license in the three states I've lived in. In Arizona, it was like $5-10 or something at the DMV. In Hawaii it was no charge. Florida charges me like $35 for a renewal.

Now compare that against their state income tax rates and it makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

 

[Drytoast]

Funny, I don't see in that poll where it says what it matters more than, or what it matters less than.

Just that it matters. Of course it matters. Other things matter too.

it shouldn't play a role. at all. lol that's the point. I've posted you the math using Rienhardt's latest contract in Florida as an example as to how much more he would pay in taxes over the term of the contract.

I got Brad telling you straight up that the no state tax advantage allowed them to resign all three of their UFA's without losing any. That it MATTERED. I got a poll telling you from players that it MATTERS.

So do you have any sound reasoning as to why we shouldn't fix this other than insulting my mother or w/e nonsense you've brought to the table so far?

 

[matt trick]

we will cross that bridge when we get to it. Right now we are dealing with this disparity. You forced us to deal with the small market large market disparity so teams like Montreal Toronto and New York cant just buy an all star roster each year... now we have to deal with this.

To be fair, in the 20 years prior, those three won fewer cups (3) then the state of Florida has won in the past 6 seasons (4).

I think it has less to do with taxes, a bit more to do with insane pressure, and a lot more to do with poor management (though Montreal has been excellent for a while).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If Canadian players are chasing a couple extra million dollars instead of wanting to win the Cup for their hometown teams, there's something more wrong than tax rates.

 

[3074326]

17 more pages of excuses for bad team management

Just what we needed

Remember when nobody wanted to play in Florida and they were a laughing stock? I do

 

[garyjones93]

Just make the cap the rough expected after tax salary, base all contracts (regardless of games played) on should the player play the full season, ie half the games at home and half the games on the road (with what the tax rates in each state/province of away games). Also include the signing bonuses based on what tax they paid on it.

Should get you much closer to actual after tax salary, and that be the cap hit. So doesn’t matter where a player plays the tax is not counted to the cap hit bringing in better parity.

Of course they can make it as technical as they want (the league/teams can hire pretty good accountants to figure out what the “expected after tax pay to be”) do they bring property tax in? There’s a lot to it.

Would have to take into consideration of trades, ie when player is traded there cap is adjusted to the schedule for the new team.

Won’t solve all the issues, people still have reasons to play wherever, but at least make the tax not one of them.

I don’t really know the best option but it is clearly turning into an unfair advantage.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

it shouldn't play a role. at all. lol that's the point. I've posted you the math using Rienhardt's latest contract in Florida as an example as to how much more he would pay in taxes over the term of the contract.

I got Brad telling you straight up that the no state tax advantage allowed them to resign all three of their UFA's without losing any. That it MATTERED. I got a poll telling you from players that it MATTERS.

So do you have any sound reasoning as to why we shouldn't fix this other than insulting my mother or w/e nonsense you've brought to the table so far?

Because it's not a simple fix? It would be monumentally complicated, and that's even before the collective bargaining aspect.

You have no leg to stand on calling other people's stuff "nonsense" when you tried to eliminate the US federal taxes from the discussion.

 

[Salsero1]

If you're line of thinking is that large markets deserve success and small markets should just thank them for being allowed to live, then again you just just switch to WWE.

 

[MMC]

I could just ban everyone who bitches about it, that would put a stop to it pretty quickly