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First round pick #26 The environmentally friendly Liam Greentree

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King'sPawn said:
He had a goal and 2 assists in a 7-1 win. Windsor's up 2-0. He has 3 goals and 4 assists in the series so far.
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At this point, he seems like a prime example of a player who has nothing to prove in an overage season.

If he was a right shot, I’d love to see him bulldoze his way onto the roster, but I just don’t see where he fits right now without a move.

The AHL is the right place for him, and I’d argue that some NCAA hockey at a top program is a solid second choice.
 
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Trash Panda said:
At this point, he seems like a prime example of a player who has nothing to prove in an overage season.

If he was a right shot, I’d love to see him bulldoze his way onto the roster, but I just don’t see where he fits right now without a move.

The AHL is the right place for him, and I’d argue that some NCAA hockey at a top program is a solid second choice.
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Since he has signed his ELC, he is ineligible for the NCAA.

Also, the 19 year old season is not the overage season. The 20 year old season is the overage season. This is Greentree's 18 year old season, next year will be his 19 year old season.
 
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Hockeyville USA said:
Since he has signed his ELC, he is ineligible for the NCAA.

Also, the 19 year old season is not the overage season. The 20 year old season is the overage season. This is Greentree's 18 year old season, next year will be his 19 year old season.
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Yeah, I understand his ELC rendering him ineligible, I suppose I should have clarified that.

I was just saying that the NCAA is preferable to another OHL season for his development, is all. Clubbing 17 year olds for a season isn’t gonna do him any good.
 
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OHL is probably the best of the bad options...I think it's Herby who says no one was HURT by going back for a year. And they can certainly work on things. But I'm leery of how much it helps.

AHL...gets pro resources but also gets buried on the 4th line with no PP time so...flip a coin. There's a reason you haven't heard Pinelli's name from juniors until now, for example.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
OHL is probably the best of the bad options...I think it's Herby who says no one was HURT by going back for a year. And they can certainly work on things. But I'm leery of how much it helps.

AHL...gets pro resources but also gets buried on the 4th line with no PP time so...flip a coin. There's a reason you haven't heard Pinelli's name from juniors until now, for example.
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If an exception was allowed AND Greentree was played in a top role, that would be great as a backup plan if he doesn't make the NHL.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
OHL is probably the best of the bad options...I think it's Herby who says no one was HURT by going back for a year. And they can certainly work on things. But I'm leery of how much it helps.

AHL...gets pro resources but also gets buried on the 4th line with no PP time so...flip a coin. There's a reason you haven't heard Pinelli's name from juniors until now, for example.
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Also… Pinelli has always been a bit of a reach from the day he was drafted, but I generally agree with your point here.
 
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Trash Panda said:
Also… Pinelli has always been a bit of a reach from the day he was drafted, but I generally agree with your point here.
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Point taken but you can replace Frankie's name with "turcotte" or really anyone else and the path is almost exactly the same

Pinelli was just the first one that came to mind of the current version of the prospect black hole where a prolific junior player gets 'disappeared' until they're 22-23 where they finally get at least middle six AHL time
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
OHL is probably the best of the bad options...I think it's Herby who says no one was HURT by going back for a year. And they can certainly work on things. But I'm leery of how much it helps.

AHL...gets pro resources but also gets buried on the 4th line with no PP time so...flip a coin. There's a reason you haven't heard Pinelli's name from juniors until now, for example.
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That's more for college players deciding if they are going to leave before being a great player at that level (Turcotte, Mittelstadt).

This one is a bit tricker, Turcotte/Mittlestadt for example would have returned to school, where they would have been expected to make a large jump to being a top line player while competing against 18-24 year olds, there is a lot of room to grow in that environment. Greentree would be returning to the OHL to play another season against 16-19 year olds at a level he's already dominated.

It's not ideal, and I think a case could be made that being on the 4th line with guys like Helenius and Turcotte with some earned opportunities for more (PP time) might just be better than dominating the OHL again.
 
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Herby said:
That's more for college players deciding if they are going to leave before being a great player at that level (Turcotte, Mittelstadt).

This one is a bit tricker, Turcotte/Mittlestadt for example would have returned to school, where they would have been expected to make a large jump to being a top line player while competing against 18-24 year olds, there is a lot of room to grow in that environment. Greentree would be returning to the OHL to play another season against 16-19 year olds at a level he's already dominated.

It's not ideal, and I think a case could be made that being on the 4th line with guys like Helenius and Turcotte with some earned opportunities for more (PP time) might just be better than dominating the OHL again.
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I would agree with that

I just don't believe for a second that the Kings would afford that opportunity
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
OHL is probably the best of the bad options...I think it's Herby who says no one was HURT by going back for a year. And they can certainly work on things. But I'm leery of how much it helps.

AHL...gets pro resources but also gets buried on the 4th line with no PP time so...flip a coin. There's a reason you haven't heard Pinelli's name from juniors until now, for example.
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Gets him some publicity in a WJC role, and dealing with that pressure is a good opportunity for young players.
 
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It begins. It's tough to criticize the Kings, since the rules weren't changed yet when they signed Greentree. But I am guessing you see way less CHL prospects of this caliber signed before they are ready to play pro, to keep the NCAA option open.

Next up is Gavin McKenna to go the Celebrini route (fingers crossed)

Raccoon Jesus said:
I would agree with that

I just don't believe for a second that the Kings would afford that opportunity
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My hope is that the Kings have learned a thing or two from how poorly they handled Clarke and how it turned into a largely wasted development year for him, (sadly, a common theme for many Kings prospects) Being scratched frequently and then told to go play with his prey in the OHL didn't bring Clarke any closer to the NHL.

This current situation is quite similar, with a player who has already dominated his junior league. It would be nice if the Kings, for once, looked around the league and saw how a similarly talented prospect, like Wyatt Johnston, was handled as a 19-year-old by a contending team. But as you and I both know, this team doesn’t believe in the concept of developing and contributing simultaneously, despite it happening all over the league.
 
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Herby said:


It begins. It's tough to criticize the Kings, since the rules weren't changed yet when they signed Greentree. But I am guessing you see way less CHL prospects of this caliber signed before they are ready to play pro, to keep the NCAA option open.

Next up is Gavin McKenna to go the Celebrini route (fingers crossed)
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Not sure Lindstrom is a good benchmark for anyone. He's played just 32 games since last year.

He would probably benefit more from playing fewer games but having more time to work on his health and physique.

I'm still not sure how many otherwise healthy players will switch to NCAA. I'm sure there will be some, but I still think this is closer to being an exception.
 
King'sPawn said:
Not sure Lindstrom is a good benchmark for anyone. He's played just 32 games since last year.

He would probably benefit more from playing fewer games but having more time to work on his health and physique.

I'm still not sure how many otherwise healthy players will switch to NCAA. I'm sure there will be some, but I still think this is closer to being an exception.
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I think most teams and agents realize that players are much more likely to jump straight from the NCAA to the NHL than they would from playing major junior, and that is why it's going to be a frequent path for a couple of different groups of players. And (most teams) are dying to have production on ELC's, as it's kind of like the NHL's version of QB's on rookie deals. I imagine Columbus is hoping for one big year at MSU, signed to a contract and three playoff runs and two full seasons on an ELC.

Alot of guys benefit from this.

The elite prospects (Celebrini/McKenna) - If they can get cleared by NCAA clearinghouse to play their draft eligible year, more NHL ready competing against older players. If you are Gavin McKenna and you had the opportunity to play ifor Michigan/North Dakota/Minnesota or return to Medicine Hat, it's tough to see the upside to returning to junior.

The good but not elite (Greentree types) - Age 19 season in college after dominating junior but not AHL eligible.

The good OA players - More UDFA get signed from college than as OA players on junior teams. You could see some of these guys leave too.

There is also the financial element for the players, there aren't going to be any players getting Bryce Underwood type money, but I'm guessing Lindstrom/McKenna/Martone/Misa/Parekh players would make significantly more on NIL deals than they would from their CHL stipends. And the year off the ELC sooner too, correct me if I'm wrong, but a guy like Lindstrom can sign after MSU's season and since he will be 20 in 2026 he can burn a year off his contract, it seems very win/win for the players and the NHL teams.

I think the CHL is very concerned with what could happen, and that is why they are considering a third import spot per team to make-up for some of incoming talent losses to the NCAA, and some rumors of another overage spot as well.

If these rules hold, I think this is just the beginning of a big switch in player development in North America, but we will have to agree to disagree.

I also think it's possible the NCAA could eventually make drastic changes to NIL/Portal because of what it's doing to football and basketball, the latest casualty of the NIL world appearing to be the NCAA basketball tourney, which was the least exciting maybe ever, because all the good mid-major players have transferred to big schools.
 
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Maybe Greentree makes the Kings roster out of training camp next season? If the Kings don't resign Kuzmenko, that leaves a spot open for him or Turcotte in the top 9.
 
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lumbergh said:
Maybe Greentree makes the Kings roster out of training camp next season? If the Kings don't resign Kuzmenko, that leaves a spot open for him or Turcotte in the top 9.
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I think he would have a decent chance on most teams, but the last time the Kings had a CHL player make the team out of camp as a teenager and actually stick beyond the 10 games were Drew Doughty and Oscar Moller who did it in the same season. But that managerment group had a completely different organizational philosophy from what they have now. Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds, Johnson, Moller etc.

Under this regime, JAD and Clarke both got a cup of coffee and were sent back to junior. It's way more likely he goes back to junior, puts up video game numbers and then starts his age 20 season "rounding out his game" and "learning the system" for the Reign.

I hope I'm wrong and they go the Wyatt Johnston path.
 
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Statto said:
I’d like them to move Danault, put Turcotte at 3C and there’s one wing spot.
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Kopitar has one more year left and they will be going for it again and Danault will be a better option than Turcotte at 3C next season. I think the only way Danault is moved is if AEG drops the bomb on Bluc and the Kings start a rebuild this summer.

I also would like to see Turcotte never play wing again, as I think he's missed enough games and reps as an NHL C due to playing wing and being hurt where he just needs to be a C. He is now 24 years old, and I really wonder how many NHL games he has played as a C, can't be that many. I thought when the Kuz trade happened and the experiment with Kopitar and Kempe ended that he would end up as a 4C with hopes he could one day score enough to be a 3C, was shocked when he went to wing on the 4th line, maybe the Kings prefer him at wing?
 
Turcotte can't be penciled in as a center IMO. He has to be a winger because his health is too unreliable for such an important position.
 
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