Fire Knoblauch

[nturn06]

Chiarelli, Holland, Bowman, all products of the exact same process and rationale, which makes me wonder if Katz is the guy making these calls.

I never understood the Holland hate, he took over a team who had Chiason, Lucic and Kassian in top 6 and no cap space(?!). He added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm, he was patient with the youth.

Yes, he did some mistakes, but all him mistakes were also part of trying to fix the D and G. The guy before him cuffed him, and the guy after destroyed all good he did.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I never understood the Holland hate, he took over a team who had Chiason, Lucic and Kassian in top 6 and no cap space(?!). He added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm, he was patient with the youth.

Yes, he did some mistakes, but all him mistakes were also part of trying to fix the D and G. The guy before him cuffed him, and the guy after destroyed all good he did.

Hollands drafting has left us with nothing. He wasted a first rounder because he traded a previous one. Too many wasted assets on middling players like AA. The Nurse/Campbell contracts have crippled this franchise.

 

[nturn06]

Hollands drafting has left us with nothing. He wasted a first rounder because he traded a previous one. Too many wasted assets on middling players like AA. The Nurse/Campbell contracts have crippled this franchise.

Wait a moment, I thought that Broberg and Holloway were great players.

Also, Campbell is what can happen when one tries to fix the goalie. People are mad that we did not try to acquire a goalie at the deadline, but I wonder if with our defence in frong Gibson would not turn into Campbell 2.0.

And, no, the franchise was not crippled, all we needed the last summer was to be patient and not try to hit a home-run or two.

 

[MikeS24]

Wait a moment, I thought that Broberg and Holloway were great players.

Also, Campbell is what can happen when one tries to fix the goalie. People are mad that we did not try to acquire a goalie at the deadline, but I wonder if with our defence in frong Gibson would not turn into Campbell 2.0.

And, no, the franchise was not crippled, all we needed the last summer was to be patient and not try to hit a home-run or two.

The Oilers are perplexing. I don't know why they even went after Rantanen, aka, Mack merchent, and were willing to offer so much $$

My money would go to D and G.

Remember when these guys went hard after Meier and he signed in NJ? They were literally asked how they would have handled the cap in the off year if Meier signed.

The Oilers said "We were going to worry about that when the time comes" loll. There was zero thought out plan for the cap with him here.

The only way I would go unhinged like that and worry later is if Isles offered us Sorokin or we somehow got a top 10 consistent goalie

 

[nturn06]

The Oilers are perplexing. I don't know why they even went after Rantanen, aka, Mack merchent, and were willing to offer so much $$

My money would go to D and G.

Remember when these guys went hard after Meier and he signed in NJ? They were literally asked how they would have handled the cap in the off year if Meier signed.

The Oilers said "We were going to worry about that when the time comes" loll

The only way I would go unhinged like that and worry later is if Isles offered us Sorokin or we somehow got a top 10 consistent goalie

That's why, while I hate the contracts I can understand why Holland gave those contracts to Nurse and Campbell. Especially when Nurse was our best (or least worse to be more precise) D-man at that moment, and was pending UFA.

But J. Skinner and Arvidsson are head scratchers....

 

[Soundwave]

Wait a moment, I thought that Broberg and Holloway were great players.

Also, Campbell is what can happen when one tries to fix the goalie. People are mad that we did not try to acquire a goalie at the deadline, but I wonder if with our defence in frong Gibson would not turn into Campbell 2.0.

And, no, the franchise was not crippled, all we needed the last summer was to be patient and not try to hit a home-run or two.

Stop lying to yourself with these kinds of rationalizations.

Team management is lazy, stupid, and loves to think they are the smartest person in the room. That's why they opted to do nothing after the Campbell debacle and basically acted like the hockey gods owed them a goalie and whoever was next dude up was going to be that guy.

The Kings themselves had a Campbell like situation with one of their goalies that they signed to a fat extension.

Did they sit around and cry about it? No. They got rid of him, and they've been proactive trying like 4 or 5 options since then and may have found a decent one in Kuemper post-eye issues.

Oilers sat on their ass lecturing people on how they know better than everyone else and tried basically nothing but promoting Stuart Skinner and their AHL goalie, Pickard.

 

[Oilhawks]

I never understood the Holland hate, he took over a team who had Chiason, Lucic and Kassian in top 6 and no cap space(?!). He added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm, he was patient with the youth.

Yes, he did some mistakes, but all him mistakes were also part of trying to fix the D and G. The guy before him cuffed him, and the guy after destroyed all good he did.

Yup, biggest mistake was the Campbell signing (huge mistake but didn't prevent current management from obtaining a goalie). Decent free agency pickups

The drafting was also a bit of a weakspot,, including first rounders, but the Holloway and Broberg picks were solid, Bourgault was a bust that they held onto for too long. Got great value out of Schaefer (whether he ever becomes a player remains to be seen).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Wait a moment, I thought that Broberg and Holloway were great players.

Also, Campbell is what can happen when one tries to fix the goalie. People are mad that we did not try to acquire a goalie at the deadline, but I wonder if with our defence in frong Gibson would not turn into Campbell 2.0.

And, no, the franchise was not crippled, all we needed the last summer was to be patient and not try to hit a home-run or two.

The problem is that none of his other picks hit. This team for decades has struggled to find NHL players in later rounds. He also just sort of left Holloway and Broberg exposed because it wasn’t his problem anymore.

I don’t entirely blame him for Campbell because he listened to his scout (Schwartz), but it was still a gamble that obviously crashed and burned.

The team is cap strapped because Holland kept overpaying players and buying out others. I think we are still paying for James Neal this year. That’s 1.92 we could have desperately used.

 

[nturn06]

The problem is that none of his other picks hit. This team for decades has struggled to find NHL players in later rounds. He also just sort of left Holloway and Broberg exposed because it wasn’t his problem anymore.

I don’t entirely blame him for Campbell because he listened to his scout (Schwartz), but it was still a gamble that obviously crashed and burned.

The team is cap strapped because Holland kept overpaying players and buying out others. I think we are still paying for James Neal this year. That’s 1.92 we could have desperately used.

Wasn't Neil just a result of the Lucic signing?

Remember that when Holland took over, he took over a team with McDavid and Draisaitl which missed the playoffs twice in a row. Waiting 5 years for the Lucic contract was not an option, the trade for Neal and the buyout was the best way out of a terrible situation.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Wasn't Neil just a result of the Lucic signing?

Remember that when Holland took over, he took over a team with McDavid and Draisaitl which missed the playoffs twice in a row. Waiting 5 years for the Lucic contract was not an option, the trade for Neal and the buyout was the best way out of a terrible situation.

He still opted to buy him out. It’s a move that looked good at the start but eventually turned into a negative for the team. The team is currently spending 6.5m on thin air between buyouts and bonuses that Holland himself constructed.

McDavid and Draisatl are a very large part of the reason why the team is relevant. Not saying Chiarelli was good because he sure wasn’t but Holland brought us to where we should have always been. But the team still has the same issues as when he started: depth, defense, and goaltending.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I wonder is his no checking bland attitude is hurting the team? I guess we will see how the team comes out tonight.

 

[nturn06]

He still opted to buy him out. It’s a move that looked good at the start but eventually turned into a negative for the team. The team is currently spending 6.5m on thin air between buyouts and bonuses that Holland himself constructed.

McDavid and Draisatl are a very large part of the reason why the team is relevant. Not saying Chiarelli was good because he sure wasn’t but Holland brought us to where we should have always been. But the team still has the same issues as when he started: depth, defense, and goaltending.

Oh, so you think that the team would had been much better if we did not buy out Neal.

No buyout, no Hyman.

 

[Little Fury]

That's why, while I hate the contracts I can understand why Holland gave those contracts to Nurse and Campbell. Especially when Nurse was our best (or least worse to be more precise) D-man at that moment, and was pending UFA.

But J. Skinner and Arvidsson are head scratchers....

Nurse wasn't a pending UFA. He had one more year left and was coming off a season that was an obvious outlier.

 

[nturn06]

Nurse wasn't a pending UFA. He had one more year left and was coming off a season that was an obvious outlier.

Nurse had one year until UFA and had 1 year left on his contract. He was set to become UFA in 2022 (age 27).

Whether they negotiate the contract then or next summer, the math is simple: overpay or lose him.
They just lost Klefboom, and what we now call an outlier season, at the time, it looked more like a young player improving. Or is Holloway's current season also an obvious outlier?

 

[Little Fury]

Nurse had one year until UFA and had 1 year left on his contract. He was set to become UFA in 2022 (age 27).

Yeah that's what I said.

Whether they negotiate the contract then or next summer, the math is simple: overpay or lose him.

That may be but the extent to which he was overpaid was driven by his results in that shortened season where he shot double his career average which everyone except Old Dutch could see was an outlier. Does he get $9.25 from anyone the following summer? I very much doubt it.

 

[nturn06]

That may be but the extent to which he was overpaid was driven by his results in that shortened season where he shot double his career average which everyone except Old Dutch could see was an outlier. Does he get $9.25 from anyone the following summer? I very much doubt it.

That is the wrong question to ask.

The right question to ask is: Does a team that is trying to be competitive, who just lost their best two D-men (Klefboom and Larsson) allow their only prospective young top 4 D-man test the UFA market?

 

[Little Fury]

That is the wrong question to ask.

The right question to ask is: Does a team that is trying to be competitive, who just lost their best two D-men (Klefboom and Larsson) allow their only prospective young top 4 D-man test the UFA market?

They had an entire year to make that call.

 

[nturn06]

They had an entire year to make that call.

Yes and no....You wait too much, and the player may decide to test the UFA market. We have seen this happen this year with the Avs and Raantanen, the Avs had to act long before the summer (sign him or trade him), why didn't they wait all year to make the call?

Hindsight is always very easy.

In my opinion, Holland did more good than bad, and he improved our team every year. The fans were not happy with the slow progress, but we were getting better and better.

We have seen with Pistol Pete, and this summer, what happens when we try to rush and hit a home run.

And despite the popular belief, a GM is not as bad as his worst move(s). What the Oilers needed was a GM who does more good than bad.

 

[Little Fury]

Yes and no....You wait too much, and the player may decide to test the UFA market. We have seen this happen this year with the Avs and Raantanen, the Avs had to act long before the summer (sign him or trade him), why didn't they wait all year to make the call?

Hindsight is always very easy.

Actually i said at the time they should wait and see if he could repeat his performance from the COVID season (I knew he wouldn't).

The Avs situation isn't comparable because they made the call to cut bait on him because he didn't fit their salary structure. it was calculated, unlike the Nurse panic signing.

In my opinion, Holland did more good than bad, and he improved our team every year. The fans were not happy with the slow progress, but we were getting better and better.

His horrible drafting is the biggest knock on him and it's a big reason why things are so bleak looking ahead. He built a team to win now that isn't going to win now and the window is about to slam shut.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

He's by no means perfect, but hard to win games when your goalie is allowing nearly 5 goals against above expected in just 2 games, not to mention the shambolic roster full of aging, inflexible, overpaid veterans.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Can't blame the coach for the roster. Last year - with a decent roster - the coach did well

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I’ll say this vis a vis the roster. I agree JJ and Bowman took us backwards by 5 years but if they continue to play a passionless vanilla no hit game - that’s coaching strategy as much as roster construction. We go out with a whimper in the next 2-3 games and I’ll fully climb aboard this train.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Great insight. Now go back to lurking.

But, but I was told on this very board what a great coach he was & that he totally changed our defensive game & it had absolutely nothing to do with the players or the goalies getting over their allergy to rubber.

I said it before & I'll say it again, even Scotty Bowman isn't winning with this kind of goaltending.

 

[MessierThanThou]

But, but I was told on this very board what a great coach he was & that he totally changed our defensive game & it had absolutely nothing to do with the players or the goalies getting over their allergy to rubber.

I said it before & I'll say it again, even Scotty Bowman isn't winning with this kind of goaltending.

You have to be kidding me... Most of my posts are some variation of bashing Stu or Knob. Mostly Stu.

I was literally banned from here after Game 3 of the SCF for engaging in multiple flamewars with Moustache Riders...