Player Discussion Fire Dustin Schwartz

[JustNapalmIt]

Because you can still probably get 1-3 good seasons from a better/more veteran goalie here. It's simply not true that Talbot and Smith declined every year here.

Koskinen and Talbot had good first years here followed by being better in year 2 (peak), Mike Smith went .902 (not great) to .923 (great), to .915 (not bad). Talbot in his first three years was .917 (good), .919 (very good), and .908 (still reasonable).

We probably win the Cup last year with Talbot in net IMO, he would've been a different maker in at least one of those 3 Finals games (games 1-3).

Again I'm all for firing Schwartz.

This 100%.
The oh so certain narrative that we have a shitty goalie cause of Schwartz is humorous.
As is the suggestion that Schwartz has "fans" here, just because said fans don't buy into the narrative that a shitty goalie is shitty because of a goalie coach.

 

[Soundwave]

This 100%.
The oh so certain narrative that we have a shitty goalie cause of Schwartz is humorous.
As is the suggestion that Schwartz has "fans" here, just because said fans don't buy into the narrative that a shitty goalie is shitty because of a goalie coach.

Maybe someone can point out the "Schwartz lover" here, because I don't even know which poster(s) is being alluded to, lol. As far as I can tell that dude has 0 fans here. That still doesn't let Skinner off the hook.

 

[JustNapalmIt]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/ottawa-senators/latest-news/senators-change-goalie-coach-looking-for-fresh-perspective

The sens reassigned their previous goalie coach to scouting and development position since he couldn't get the job done last year. If the Oilers feel so bad about potentially firing and hurting poor little Schwartzy's feelings then just reassign him to some random ass job in the organization. One that won't have him advocating what goalie to trade or draft for exactly.

The Sens got a brand new #1 goalie which could very well be the reason for a new goalie coach
Apparently their new goalie coach is terrible.

Linus Ullmark Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Linus Ullmark, a hockey player from Lugnvik, Sweden born Jul 31 1993 who was active from 2009 to 2025.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

How has Skinner trended in the wrong direction? The argument can be made that this guy is only in the NHL because of Schwartz. Same with Pickard.
I dont know, Ive seen Skinner his whole hockey life. He is (and always has been) extremely, extremely limited given his lack of reflexes and athleticism. He was a middle/late 2nd rounder for a reason.
I think hes a smart goalie, positions himself not bad, plays fairly big, but hes just not good enough to be an NHL starter. In my world.

The bolded is a statement that could only be born out of ignorance on all the great goalies that were late round picks.

Look at Mitch Korn's goalie coaching history:

- Dominik Hasek (greatest goalie to ever play) 10th rd pick
- Pekka Rinne- 8th rd pick
- Juuse Saros 4th rd pick
- Tomous Vokoun 9th rd pick
- Ilya Sorokin 3rd rd pick

He didn't need goalies with a huge pedigree to get elite results out of them.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Because you can still probably get 1-3 good seasons from a better/more veteran goalie here. It's simply not true that Talbot and Smith declined every year here.

Koskinen and Talbot had good first years here followed by being better in year 2 (peak), Mike Smith went .902 (not great) to .923 (great), to .915 (not bad). Talbot in his first three years was .917 (good), .919 (very good), and .908 (still reasonable).

We probably win the Cup last year with Talbot in net IMO, he would've been a different maker in at least one of those 3 Finals games (games 1-3).

Again I'm all for firing Schwartz.

When Talbot struggled I think in his 2nd season he mentioned he had to reach out to his old goalie coach Allaire for help which helped him bounce back from a rocky patch.

 

[Soundwave]

When Talbot struggled I think in his 2nd season he mentioned he had to reach out to his old goalie coach Allaire for help which helped him bounce back from a rocky patch.

The 2nd year would be his Vezina tier season so that wasn't it, maybe it was the 3rd season here. His numbers were still decent even in year 3 here (.908, considering Klefbom was toast and Sekera done, that's not that bad).

 

[JustNapalmIt]

The bolded is a statement that could only be born out of ignorance on all the great goalies that were late round picks.

Look at Mitch Korn's goalie coaching history:

- Dominik Hasek (greatest goalie to ever play) 10th rd pick
- Pekka Rinne- 8th rd pick
- Juuse Saros 4th rd pick
- Tomous Vokoun 9th rd pick
- Ilya Sorokin 3rd rd pick

He didn't need goalies with a huge pedigree to get elite results out of them.

Not tough to figure things out. Its born out of ignorance to think that I was saying that you cant be a great goalie if you arent a high draft pick.
But the liklihood of suceess , to state the obvious, is better the higher a draft pick you are.
Im sure Korn coached all sorts of shit goalies as well.
What is born out of ignorance is to think a goalie coach can make a shityy goalie not shitty.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Skinner trends in the wrong direction because he doesn't seem to try effectively improve on his weaknesses. At least that's what it looks like to me.

Do goalie coaches anywhere get fired? Just wondering.

You could bring the god of goalies down from the sky and it won't improve Skinner

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Not tough to figure things out. Its born out of ignorance to think that I was saying that you cant be a great goalie if you arent a high draft pick.
But the liklihood of suceess , to state the obvious, is better the higher a draft pick you are.
Im sure Korn coached all sorts of shit goalies as well.
What is born out of ignorance is to think a goalie coach can make a shityy goalie not shitty.

The correlation to being picked high and success is strongest with forwards, then D, and then goaltending.

As of right now I looked at the 15 highest GSAA ratings (minimum 400 mins played) and only 2 were drafted in the first round Oettinger and Vasilevskiy, meaning 13 of the 15 weren't drafted in the first round and 2 were actually not drafted at all and 2 of those 15 were coached by Korn.

My belief is a good goalie coach can help goalie save 1 more shot per 100 and improve a goalies mental resiliency to bounce back quicker from rough patches. Those sound like small & reasonable things, but given the margin of error for goalies, just those 2 things make all the difference in the world with respect to how they are perceived.

I'm also not saying Korn would turn Skinner into a star, but with the amount of chances Schwartz has had with umpteen goalies through his 10 years here, he would of molded atleast 1.

 

[McAsuno]

Schwartz golden child strikes again! If you want your goalies ruined, hire Schwartz as your goalie coach!

 

[FunkyChicken]

Schwartz golden child strikes again! If you want your goalies ruined, hire Schwartz as your goalie coach!

Schwartz: "Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them. Stretch out with your feelings Tristan."