Fire Colliton

[BobbyJet]

Watch out for him getting an extension.

FFS .... if Stan extends him at this point it just confirms that he hasn't a clue.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

FFS .... if Stan extends him at this point it just confirms that he hasn't a clue.

Yeah if Stan gives JC an extension I'm going to jump on the fire Stan bus.

 

[Drumman44]

"I don’t believe there have been any conversations yet on the contract front, the Hawks priority right now is readying themselves for the Oct. 6-7 draft and potential roster changes. But I do expect the Blackhawks to explore extending Colliton before next season begins."​

Report: Hawks Expected To Give Jeremy Colliton Extension.

FWIW that's quite a leap with the headline. They can "explore" extending him but still end up cleaning house.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

FWIW that's quite a leap with the headline. They can "explore" extending him but still end up cleaning house.

Ya, I don’t really care about whatever blog that is and that writer’s take on it. I was just posting that at first because it was the place I saw the LeBrun report. I later found it was from an Athletic article.

 

[featherhawk]

seems to me as long as Stan has control we are stuck with JC, I don't like it but that seems to be what is happening

 

[Brightwing]

Extending him at least a year probably makes sense. Most of you don't want to hear it but here's why. When Q got fired and Colliton brought on he probably came at a moderate price as the Hawks were still on the hook for Q's contract. After Q signed with Florida, that expense eased up but now you're in a COVID-19 world where blowing $5 million on a top tier coach is an expense you really look at when you don't have a team that's ready for a legit cup run.

He's good with the youth and as much as people shy away from giving him credit for Kirby Dach's development, the reality is your star prospect is improving and thriving. That is not a given under every coach. You see guys like Murphy and today in the Athletic Koekkoek talking about successfully working with the coaching team to improve their game. You go on a playoff run you have no right to be in and do better than expected.

In the post-game analysis from non-Chicago press, the talk was the Hawks played hard (not every team in the bubble did, hello Washington) and played a better team game than the Oilers. That's despite everyone giving the coaching advantage to Dave Tippett. You can argue things like what player should be on the ice for the last minute, should Quenneville have played for Caggiula or whatever, but those are not the decisions that were make or break in the series. It was a flawed team that did about as well as they could given their matchups.

As I said before, when you get closer to a cup you take a look at whether your coach can take them over that hump and whether you need an upgrade but when you have a flawed team any coach looks gawdawful. So you have to ask, what are the goals of the team and can your coach get you there. Right now the main goal is to develop some of the younger players and build depth. You are not a few trades away from competing with this core.

 

[Drumman44]

Extending him at least a year probably makes sense. Most of you don't want to hear it but here's why. When Q got fired and Colliton brought on he probably came at a moderate price as the Hawks were still on the hook for Q's contract. After Q signed with Florida, that expense eased up but now you're in a COVID-19 world where blowing $5 million on a top tier coach is an expense you really look at when you don't have a team that's ready for a legit cup run.

He's good with the youth and as much as people shy away from giving him credit for Kirby Dach's development, the reality is your star prospect is improving and thriving. That is not a given under every coach. You see guys like Murphy and today in the Athletic Koekkoek talking about successfully working with the coaching team to improve their game. You go on a playoff run you have no right to be in and do better than expected.

In the post-game analysis from non-Chicago press, the talk was the Hawks played hard (not every team in the bubble did, hello Washington) and played a better team game than the Oilers. That's despite everyone giving the coaching advantage to Dave Tippett. You can argue things like what player should be on the ice for the last minute, should Quenneville have played for Caggiula or whatever, but those are not the decisions that were make or break in the series. It was a flawed team that did about as well as they could given their matchups.

As I said before, when you get closer to a cup you take a look at whether your coach can take them over that hump and whether you need an upgrade but when you have a flawed team any coach looks gawdawful. So you have to ask, what are the goals of the team and can your coach get you there. Right now the main goal is to develop some of the younger players and build depth. You are not a few trades away from competing with this core.

Interesting perspective, thanks

 

[Illinihockey]

Extending him at least a year probably makes sense. Most of you don't want to hear it but here's why. When Q got fired and Colliton brought on he probably came at a moderate price as the Hawks were still on the hook for Q's contract. After Q signed with Florida, that expense eased up but now you're in a COVID-19 world where blowing $5 million on a top tier coach is an expense you really look at when you don't have a team that's ready for a legit cup run.

He's good with the youth and as much as people shy away from giving him credit for Kirby Dach's development, the reality is your star prospect is improving and thriving. That is not a given under every coach. You see guys like Murphy and today in the Athletic Koekkoek talking about successfully working with the coaching team to improve their game. You go on a playoff run you have no right to be in and do better than expected.

In the post-game analysis from non-Chicago press, the talk was the Hawks played hard (not every team in the bubble did, hello Washington) and played a better team game than the Oilers. That's despite everyone giving the coaching advantage to Dave Tippett. You can argue things like what player should be on the ice for the last minute, should Quenneville have played for Caggiula or whatever, but those are not the decisions that were make or break in the series. It was a flawed team that did about as well as they could given their matchups.

As I said before, when you get closer to a cup you take a look at whether your coach can take them over that hump and whether you need an upgrade but when you have a flawed team any coach looks gawdawful. So you have to ask, what are the goals of the team and can your coach get you there. Right now the main goal is to develop some of the younger players and build depth. You are not a few trades away from competing with this core.

then trade Kane and toews

 

[Brightwing]

then trade Kane and toews

Toews and Kane are young enough that they can make a go of it with the younger players, Keith and Crow probably not. Toews would be hard to move without retaining. But of course it's up to them if they want to play out their career here. If they requested a trade Stan would move them.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Toews and Kane are young enough that they can make a go of it with the younger players, Keith and Crow probably not. Toews would be hard to move without retaining. But of course it's up to them if they want to play out their career here. If they requested a trade Stan would move them.

The ghost of Bill Wirtz will keep 19/88 here until they've played their last game, if that's what they want. It is what it is, I've accepted it. As long as long as they want to be here, they'll be here.

 

[Brightwing]

The ghost of Bill Wirtz will keep 19/88 here until they've played their last game, if that's what they want. It is what it is, I've accepted it. As long as long as they want to be here, they'll be here.

I mean at the end of the day, it's not just about sports but entertainment too. It's sure a lot easier to swallow a rough stretch for the team when you have Kane and Toews hitting milestones. Kane especially is the kind of player you'll always remember watching live. It gives people a reason to go to games regardless. I don't think Chicago can ever be a team like the Senators or Coyotes where they're willing to role at the absolute bottom of the barrel to rebuild. They have the biggest hockey arena in the US and have to fill it. And I'm ok with that because even if the team has tough times, I just don't see Kane and Toews being OK with a losing culture and that culture can be insidious and you want your team to care about winning even in tough times.

 

[Bubba88]

then trade Kane and toews

If you want to help the youth and establish a new core you are lucky to have those guys for guidance and not ending up with a losing culture.

Not to mention that those guys should be Hawks for life unless they come out and say they want to play somewhere else.

 

[Illinihockey]

Toews and Kane are young enough that they can make a go of it with the younger players, Keith and Crow probably not. Toews would be hard to move without retaining. But of course it's up to them if they want to play out their career here. If they requested a trade Stan would move them.

Not if you're going to keep this coach. The post said keep Colliton until we're ready to win a Cup. Well Kane and Toews have 3 years left on their deals. You can't afford to waste their last good years.

 

[Illinihockey]

If you want to help the youth and establish a new core you are lucky to have those guys for guidance and not ending up with a losing culture.

Not to mention that those guys should be Hawks for life unless they come out and say they want to play somewhere else.

The Hawks already have a losing culture, they would have had a top 10 pick if the season hadn't been cut short and they let everyone in the playoffs. They missed the playoffs the season before.

 

[ChiHawk21]

they are stuck in the middle. what is the plan? is the core boqvist dach mitchell and debrincat and they are looking 3-4 years down the road? is that only because they got lucky and won 3rd in the lottery?

 

[Styles]

The vets can't go cry to Mcdonough now so are we going to see that same garbage system we saw in the first 10 games last year?

 

[Brightwing]

they are stuck in the middle. what is the plan? is the core boqvist dach mitchell and debrincat and they are looking 3-4 years down the road? is that only because they got lucky and won 3rd in the lottery?

This is kind of off-topic from the Colliton stuff, but I see this a lot in some of the podcasts I check in on (like faxesfromuncledale which is unlistenable to me be these days) where they're screaming 'where is the plan?????????'

And I think if you look at the patterns of the Hawks' moves you can see what the plan is and how it changed over the years. This team never sent out a Rangers-type press release saying they're rebuilding but if you look at the action, they very clearly are. I've heard people say retool, and maybe it's more that.

You can see patterns in signings and trades post-Q firing where they're trading for picks and prospects and focusing on integrating European FAs. They filled out their D prospect pool with drafting, signings and trades and this is probably the largest D prospect pool this team has had in a long, long time. Why? Because you cannot trade for top D in this league except on very rare occasions and you build from the blue line. Look at the Leafs, they put all those resources into top tier forwards and they're screwed with a shaky D and no top-tier prospects in sight. How'd that "Shanaplan" work out for them? And you can say, but Jokiharju, I still believe a big reason he got traded is because they knew they weren't going to protect him at the trade deadline with Keith and Seabs still having NMCs.

After D, the next major area of concern was centre depth, hence the Strome trade. They lucked out with that 3OA pick to help build there and it's clear they understand they can pickup or develop wingers through European FA or later picks.

Last year they stood pat at the trade deadline and filled out depth over the summer as a salvo to the vets. When that clearly didn't work they were in full retool this year. There's no question. I guarantee you the Shaw trade not working out was the last straw in an arguments to build around the current core. And I think there were definitely voices that wanted to keep trying to stretch the current core's cup window, but I think those arguing for the rebuild won and Stan was in that group.

And I mean, it's the NHL, how rigid is any plan on any team? It's not like a chain of Wendy's where you can have a five-year plan for growth and new store openings and stick to it. It's hockey things will change. Trade opportunities come, you get draft luck (Dach) that can accelerate things. The Athletic ranking the Hawks pool of young talent I think like 14. The Kings are 13. They're in relatively the same spot in their cycle. It's not a coincidence, it's salary cap reality. You cannot stay on top forever. Your core is going to age. At least we have the cups. San Jose ranks near the bottom with Washington and Pittsburgh and they have that Karlsson contract too and no cups yet when Karlsson was signed people were screaming Doug Wilson was a genius GM.

People who don't see there is a plan are not paying attention. I don't think they're stuck but it's going to take some time for the prospects to develop and around the time they do the cap situation will ease. It's not perfect timing, but it roughly lines up.

 

[Styles]

People who don't see there is a plan are not paying attention. I don't think they're stuck but it's going to take some time for the prospects to develop and around the time they do the cap situation will ease. It's not perfect timing, but it roughly lines up.

That’s where we want to get to. That’s our goal over the next 18 to 24 months — to build this thing up and be a team in that elite tier.’’

Feb. 2019

Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman talks plan, timeline for return to being contender

So pretty much midway through next season. I think he will be walking that back now.

 

[ChiHawk21]

This is kind of off-topic from the Colliton stuff, but I see this a lot in some of the podcasts I check in on (like faxesfromuncledale which is unlistenable to me be these days) where they're screaming 'where is the plan?????????'

And I think if you look at the patterns of the Hawks' moves you can see what the plan is and how it changed over the years. This team never sent out a Rangers-type press release saying they're rebuilding but if you look at the action, they very clearly are. I've heard people say retool, and maybe it's more that.

You can see patterns in signings and trades post-Q firing where they're trading for picks and prospects and focusing on integrating European FAs. They filled out their D prospect pool with drafting, signings and trades and this is probably the largest D prospect pool this team has had in a long, long time. Why? Because you cannot trade for top D in this league except on very rare occasions and you build from the blue line. Look at the Leafs, they put all those resources into top tier forwards and they're screwed with a shaky D and no top-tier prospects in sight. How'd that "Shanaplan" work out for them? And you can say, but Jokiharju, I still believe a big reason he got traded is because they knew they weren't going to protect him at the trade deadline with Keith and Seabs still having NMCs.

After D, the next major area of concern was centre depth, hence the Strome trade. They lucked out with that 3OA pick to help build there and it's clear they understand they can pickup or develop wingers through European FA or later picks.

Last year they stood pat at the trade deadline and filled out depth over the summer as a salvo to the vets. When that clearly didn't work they were in full retool this year. There's no question. I guarantee you the Shaw trade not working out was the last straw in an arguments to build around the current core. And I think there were definitely voices that wanted to keep trying to stretch the current core's cup window, but I think those arguing for the rebuild won and Stan was in that group.

And I mean, it's the NHL, how rigid is any plan on any team? It's not like a chain of Wendy's where you can have a five-year plan for growth and new store openings and stick to it. It's hockey things will change. Trade opportunities come, you get draft luck (Dach) that can accelerate things. The Athletic ranking the Hawks pool of young talent I think like 14. The Kings are 13. They're in relatively the same spot in their cycle. It's not a coincidence, it's salary cap reality. You cannot stay on top forever. Your core is going to age. At least we have the cups. San Jose ranks near the bottom with Washington and Pittsburgh and they have that Karlsson contract too and no cups yet when Karlsson was signed people were screaming Doug Wilson was a genius GM.

People who don't see there is a plan are not paying attention. I don't think they're stuck but it's going to take some time for the prospects to develop and around the time they do the cap situation will ease. It's not perfect timing, but it roughly lines up.

but you are contradicting yourself in what you say the plan is/was?

but they have contradicted every direction they have tried to go. First they were building with hartman, hino, and schmaltz. They traded them all. So now they are banking on the core of Dach, Boqvist Mitchell and Debrincat to get better while hoping that a resigned(?) toews and kane will still be able to play at a high level in 3 years(?). This while trying to sell tickets and stay competitive by signing maatta shaw getting Dehaan resulting in mediocre draft picks.

They are are stuck half way. Choose a direction.

 

[Brightwing]

but you are contradicting yourself in what you say the plan is/was?

but they have contradicted every direction they have tried to go. First they were building with hartman, hino, and schmaltz. They traded them all. So now they are banking on the core of Dach, Boqvist Mitchell and Debrincat to get better while hoping that a resigned(?) toews and kane will still be able to play at a high level in 3 years(?). This while trying to sell tickets and stay competitive by signing maatta shaw getting Dehaan resulting in mediocre draft picks.

They are are stuck half way. Choose a direction.

What kind of plan would you like to see? Like not the nuances, but the overall big moves, what would constitute getting unstuck?

 

[Illinihockey]

This is kind of off-topic from the Colliton stuff, but I see this a lot in some of the podcasts I check in on (like faxesfromuncledale which is unlistenable to me be these days) where they're screaming 'where is the plan?????????'

And I think if you look at the patterns of the Hawks' moves you can see what the plan is and how it changed over the years. This team never sent out a Rangers-type press release saying they're rebuilding but if you look at the action, they very clearly are. I've heard people say retool, and maybe it's more that.

You can see patterns in signings and trades post-Q firing where they're trading for picks and prospects and focusing on integrating European FAs. They filled out their D prospect pool with drafting, signings and trades and this is probably the largest D prospect pool this team has had in a long, long time. Why? Because you cannot trade for top D in this league except on very rare occasions and you build from the blue line. Look at the Leafs, they put all those resources into top tier forwards and they're screwed with a shaky D and no top-tier prospects in sight. How'd that "Shanaplan" work out for them? And you can say, but Jokiharju, I still believe a big reason he got traded is because they knew they weren't going to protect him at the trade deadline with Keith and Seabs still having NMCs.

After D, the next major area of concern was centre depth, hence the Strome trade. They lucked out with that 3OA pick to help build there and it's clear they understand they can pickup or develop wingers through European FA or later picks.

Last year they stood pat at the trade deadline and filled out depth over the summer as a salvo to the vets. When that clearly didn't work they were in full retool this year. There's no question. I guarantee you the Shaw trade not working out was the last straw in an arguments to build around the current core. And I think there were definitely voices that wanted to keep trying to stretch the current core's cup window, but I think those arguing for the rebuild won and Stan was in that group.

And I mean, it's the NHL, how rigid is any plan on any team? It's not like a chain of Wendy's where you can have a five-year plan for growth and new store openings and stick to it. It's hockey things will change. Trade opportunities come, you get draft luck (Dach) that can accelerate things. The Athletic ranking the Hawks pool of young talent I think like 14. The Kings are 13. They're in relatively the same spot in their cycle. It's not a coincidence, it's salary cap reality. You cannot stay on top forever. Your core is going to age. At least we have the cups. San Jose ranks near the bottom with Washington and Pittsburgh and they have that Karlsson contract too and no cups yet when Karlsson was signed people were screaming Doug Wilson was a genius GM.

People who don't see there is a plan are not paying attention. I don't think they're stuck but it's going to take some time for the prospects to develop and around the time they do the cap situation will ease. It's not perfect timing, but it roughly lines up.

if the plan has been to get slower while making out your cap so you’ll have trouble signing your young guys, they’re killing it. How was trading for Andrew Shaw an attempt to rebuild? They traded for a one shouldered 29 year old defensemen with 3 expensive years left on his death too. Those are win now moves

 

[Illinihockey]

If they were looking to rebuild they would have traded Gus 18 months ago, but they aren’t

 

[ClydeLee]

I've never got the fan view that didn't consider the 17-18 and 18-19 seasons beginning with those offseasons any anythiny at least short of re-tooling. When you announce moves as long term cap stability I'd think people would get that as short term will we be worse than we could be in order to hope long term we will be better. I guess people need a Rangers like statement, which I figured McDonough never wanted to promote.

But last offseason was a full attempt to win and not rebuild. All the additions were with the attempt to be a playoff team which they only wound up being because of the madness. I dont think they'll do much to bounce back. All they need to do is buy out or trade a couple bodies and the roster will be banking on improvements if they happen or not from within.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Speaking of Gus, watch them trade Maatta for cap relief and bring back Gus in a 3rd pair role...

 

[Styles]

but you are contradicting yourself in what you say the plan is/was?

but they have contradicted every direction they have tried to go. First they were building with hartman, hino, and schmaltz. They traded them all. So now they are banking on the core of Dach, Boqvist Mitchell and Debrincat to get better while hoping that a resigned(?) toews and kane will still be able to play at a high level in 3 years(?). This while trying to sell tickets and stay competitive by signing maatta shaw getting Dehaan resulting in mediocre draft picks.

They are are stuck half way. Choose a direction.

Please don’t bring logic in here. He was making a good point until he wasn’t.