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Tribute Fire Briere Thread

Deadpool8812 said:
If you have an organization with good scouts and development, you'll hit more on those non-1st round picks


Eh, I don't believe that. We have cap space for any bonus overages. Briere had even said he'll take on a bad contract if it makes sense, so cap space isn't an issue. If it is true, then that's a fireable offense
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But last year at the end of the college season, that was not known. And if you can avoid overages, you do it. Plus, in their eyes, not doing it kept his ELC from starting too. So 2 reasons.
 
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Deadpool8812 said:
If you have an organization with good scouts and development, you'll hit more on those non-1st round picks


Eh, I don't believe that. We have cap space for any bonus overages. Briere had even said he'll take on a bad contract if it makes sense, so cap space isn't an issue. If it is true, then that's a fireable offense
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You mean like Brink, Andrae, Foerster, Bonk, Tuomaala?

The Flyers are a good drafting team, I think better now that the dinos aren't insisting on overdrafting big players (Holmgren would have taken Mann in the 4th rd!).

Happy to add another 2nd, hopefully Briere will pick up a few more picks before the draft.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
That's right. The Flyers are a good drafting team. That's why they're riddled with depth and prospects and all is well. Never question the vision.
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Holmgren decided that they had to win now when he hired CF. Which is why he traded away picks. Then CF panicked at the end of his tenure and traded more picks for Risto and TDA. Overall deficit between 2020-22 of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd rd & 4th pick in 3 drafts. G and Provorov have given them the extra 1st in 2023 and 2024. And they've accumulated later round picks.

Lack of depth is mostly due to misses under Hextall, bottom six players tend to take 5 or so years to arrive, which is why they're bottom six players (if they were more talented, they'd be drafted higher and arrive sooner). CF's later round picks should arrive the next 2-3 seasons, Attard (2019), Desonyers (2020), Kolosov, Samson, McLaughlin, Avon (2021), Kaplan, Bump, Sulku, Gendrdon (2022).
 
deadhead said:
Holmgren decided that they had to win now when he hired CF. Which is why he traded away picks. Then CF panicked at the end of his tenure and traded more picks for Risto and TDA. Overall deficit between 2020-22 of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd rd & 4th pick in 3 drafts. G and Provorov have given them the extra 1st in 2023 and 2024. And they've accumulated later round picks.

Lack of depth is mostly due to misses under Hextall, bottom six players tend to take 5 or so years to arrive, which is why they're bottom six players (if they were more talented, they'd be drafted higher and arrive sooner). CF's later round picks should arrive the next 2-3 seasons, Attard (2019), Desonyers (2020), Kolosov, Samson, McLaughlin, Avon (2021), Kaplan, Bump, Sulku, Gendrdon (2022).
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And I think it's a good thing that all the same people responsible for almost all of what you've said are still in charge, because continuity is a positive. We wouldn't want any disruption of this happy status quo.
 
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deadhead said:
You mean like Brink, Andrae, Foerster, Bonk, Tuomaala?
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Brink: Likely to be benched tomorrow, has yet to prove he will stick in a top 6 role.
Andrae: Didn’t stick this year, has yet to prove anything
Foerster: was a first round pick
Bonk: was a first round pick
Tuomaala: has yet to even play a game in the pros

When other teams tout their non-first round finds, it’s players that… you know… actually have contributed to winning?

Guys like Adam Fox, Kaprizov, Aho, etc.

Not “we drafted so well we might have found a few bottom six guys outside the first round!!!! (Or
Maybe not… we’re really not sure yet)”
 
FlyTimmo said:
I could be wrong but it feels like good draft vs bad draft generally refers to the top ~10-20 picks. Most drafts become indistinguishable from each other past those selections. Give me the 2024 pick.
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True but it also matters how we draft lol. Either way, it’s not the worst return ever. People are dismissing drysdale already
 
FromOyVey2Matvei said:
Brink: Likely to be benched tomorrow, has yet to prove he will stick in a top 6 role.
Andrae: Didn’t stick this year, has yet to prove anything
Foerster: was a first round pick
Bonk: was a first round pick
Tuomaala: has yet to even play a game in the pros

When other teams tout their non-first round finds, it’s players that… you know… actually have contributed to winning?

Guys like Adam Fox, Kaprizov, Aho, etc.

Not “we drafted so well we might have found a few bottom six guys outside the first round!!!! (Or
Maybe not… we’re really not sure yet)”
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Picks past #20 are far from sure things, half flop.
Obviously it's early, but it's not like drafting Ratcliffe (#35), JOB (#19), Rubstov (#24), etc.
Unlikely to be as good as G (#22), and TK (#24), but Foerster and Bonk have a shot at being top 6/top 4 players.
The others, if they're starters, Flahr has done good. Any starter (400+ games) picked past the first rd is a hit, past the 2nd rd, a HR.
 
deadhead said:
Picks past #20 are far from sure things, half flop.
Obviously it's early, but it's not like drafting Ratcliffe (#35), JOB (#19), Rubstov (#24), etc.
Unlikely to be as good as G (#22), and TK (#24), but Foerster and Bonk have a shot at being top 6/top 4 players.
The others, if they're starters, Flahr has done good. Any starter (400+ games) picked past the first rd is a hit, past the 2nd rd, a HR.
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Sure… if you’re consistently hitting on players capable of starting on a contender outside the first round, and you get one star level / first line player you’ve done really good. The Flyers have not cleared either bar or even come close yet.

Up until Gauthier (lol) and Michkov, we had a bottom five prospect pool. Flahr has not done anything remotely close to a good job. He has not found a single 1st line caliber player.

Unlike you, I can’t throw the “mission accomplished” banner up for Flahr because we’ve got a couple players looking decent in the AHL and a couple players currently in the middle 6 for a non-contender. He’s largely done a pretty terrible job.
 
FromOyVey2Matvei said:
Sure… if you’re consistently hitting on players capable of starting on a contender outside the first round, and you get one star level / first line player you’ve done really good. The Flyers have not cleared either bar or even come close yet.

Up until Gauthier (lol) and Michkov, we had a bottom five prospect pool. Flahr has not done anything remotely close to a good job. He has not found a single 1st line caliber player.

Unlike you, I can’t throw the “mission accomplished” banner up for Flahr because we’ve got a couple players looking decent in the AHL and a couple players currently in the middle 6 for a non-contender. He’s largely done a pretty terrible job.
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Hard to find 1st line forwards when your GM sabotages you.
Hextall had (8) 1sts, (6) 2nds in 5 years, including #2 and #7.
Flahr now has had (5) 1sts, (4) 2nds in 5 years, including #5 and #7.
He'll get a lot more picks to play with the next two years.

We'll know in a few years how Michkov, Drysdale, York, Foerster, Andrae, Brink, Tuomaala, Bonk turn out. Only 1st or 2nd pick to fall short so far is Bjarnason, but it's early (especially for a goalie).
(5) 3rd rd picks: Attard, Kolosov, Kaplan, Zavargin, Barkey. Not a bad group.
 
deadhead said:
You mean like Brink, Andrae, Foerster, Bonk, Tuomaala?

The Flyers are a good drafting team, I think better now that the dinos aren't insisting on overdrafting big players (Holmgren would have taken Mann in the 4th rd!).

Happy to add another 2nd, hopefully Briere will pick up a few more picks before the draft.
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Little early to say any of those picks are hits, never mind all of them.
 
freakydallas13 said:
Little early to say any of those picks are hits, never mind all of them.
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It's hard finding NHL players:
400+ games (top 6/4 in bold) - have to project more recent draft picks
2011: Couts (8), Cousins (68)
2012: Laughton (20), Ghost (68)
2013:
2014: Sanheim (17)
2015: Provorov (7), TK (24)
2016: Hart (48)
2017: Frost (27), Cates (137)
2018: Farabee (14), Ersson? (143)
2019: York (14), Brink (34)
2020: Foerster (23)

Colorado
2011: Landeskog (2)
2012:
2013: McKinnon (1)
2014:
2015: Rantanen (10)
2016: Jost (10)
2017: Makar (4)
2018:
2019: Byram (4), Newhook (16)
2020:

TB
2011: Namestnikov (27), Kucherov (58), Palat (208)
2012: Vasilevsky (19), Paquette (101)
2013: Drouin (3)
2014: TDA (19), Point (79) [bet that's a shocker!!!]
2015: Cirelli (72), Joseph (120)
2016: Howden (27), Colton (118)
2017:
2018:
2019:
2020:

NJ
2011: Larsson (4), Coleman (75)
2012: Severson (60), Kerfoot (150)
2013: Wood (100)
2014:
2015: Zacha (6)
2016: McLeod (12), Bratt (162)
2017: Hischier (1)
2018: Sharangovich (141)
2019: Hughes (1)
2020: Mercer (18)
 
deadhead said:
You mean like Brink, Andrae, Foerster, Bonk, Tuomaala?

The Flyers are a good drafting team, I think better now that the dinos aren't insisting on overdrafting big players (Holmgren would have taken Mann in the 4th rd!).

Happy to add another 2nd, hopefully Briere will pick up a few more picks before the draft.
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None of those guys are established NHLers at this point. Brink and Foerster have shown potential, but the others have played minimal NHL games so far, so yes, my point still stands.

Briere's first draft was also quite lackluster, and he got lucky with Michkov still being available
 
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