Finnish Prospect Update Thread

[mattihp]

It's better for Finnish hockey to focus on developing good players that stay in Finland or at least in Europe. First-round NHL draft picks often don't.

Very true. With no NHL likely in the Olympics, Europe is more important.

 

[Jukurit]

The big problems with Finnish hockey are IMO:

1. Leagues are weak
Liiga has too many teams. Mestis is bad. U20 Sm-sarja has way too many teams. This leads to a lack of competition. Liiga being a closed league is also bad.

2. Suck at skating
So many Finnish prospects suck at skating. NHL is a fast game and if you suck at skating you're going to have a bad time usually.

 

[Svedu]

Okay so Kiviharju left TPS and now I see Suoniemi left their u20 for Kiekko-Espoo... Is there something going on in TPS that we are missing?

 

[Svedu]

The big problems with Finnish hockey are IMO:

1. Leagues are weak
Liiga has too many teams. Mestis is bad. U20 Sm-sarja has way too many teams. This leads to a lack of competition. Liiga being a closed league is also bad.

2. Suck at skating
So many Finnish prospects suck at skating. NHL is a fast game and if you suck at skating you're going to have a bad time usually.

Yeah, agreed regarding the skating issue. They do really suck at it and not only against or compared to American talents. Czechs and Slovaks and their smallish or "Medium" sized players usually do match their skillset with decent skating.
In Finlands recent u20 teams I can only come up with Lambert, Heponiemi, Kupari being able to keep up. Oden as well but he was never a prospect for the NHL.
Yeah Maccelli probably had decent skating as well as Niemelä? Heimosalmi and Malinen, Kapanen? But these are very few names and a small minority of the rosters.
This is Finlands biggest problem right now. I almost wish Brad Lamberts father could be hired as a skating coach for Finnish junior programs or something.

 

[Albatros]

Slovaks and their smallish or "Medium" sized players usually do match their skillset with decent skating.

Recent Slovak top NHL draft picks have been big guys playing abroad though, Dvorský probably has the biggest issues and he's coming from Sweden. Slafkovský was about what you'd expect for his size.

 

[Svedu]

Recent Slovak top NHL draft picks have been big guys playing abroad though, Dvorský probably has the biggest issues and he's coming from Sweden. Slafkovský was about what you'd expect for his size.

Well skating has never been the issue for them. Mentioning one player here or there doesn't necessarily change that fact?
Tatar, Chromiak, Ciernik, Sykora. Mesar? Misiak, Jedlicka, Nemec, Knazko, Regenda, Ruzicka...
No matter their size I don't see many of them having issues with their skating.

Simontaival, Lundell, Barkov, Hirvonen, Granlund, Tolvanen, Hämeenaho, Laine, Järventie, Nikkanen, Aatu Räty, Puistola, Kuokkanen, Koivula etc etc. And there are plenty of others.
All of these players had issues with their skating and the young ones still continue to have that.

Also, when you consider that Barkov and Granlund have extraordinary IQ compared to these later ones, Lundell could be another one added to that list. Tolvanen is a lethal shooter like Laine.
I mean that's why most of them survived with Barkov perhaps being the exception having almost everything else besides speed and intensity.
In my opinion Laine and Tolvanen have top15-20 shots in the whole NHL. And it's obvious their stats at the junior age tells that they've had easy for hitting the net back then as well.
My point in all this? Hirvonen, Hämeenaho, Simontaival (decent shot but not Tolvanen level) and others aren't as sharp.
An example: Take a player like Koivunen, he's not a sure bet for the NHL either. That's the funny thing when people shit on "Earlier" prospects like Samu Tuomaala. I would never state that he's a better player than Koivunen but when it comes to the NHL? I don't see Koivunen having an edge making it whatsoever and that's because If you don't have a great shot or some serious speed or some size or a lot of things combined? Then you will have a hard time making it there. Doesn't matter if you are good or pretty decent at everything.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Well skating has never been the issue for them. Mentioning one player here or there doesn't necessarily change that fact?
Tatar, Chromiak, Ciernik, Sykora. Mesar? Misiak, Jedlicka, Nemec, Knazko, Regenda, Ruzicka...
No matter their size I don't see many of them having issues with their skating.

Simontaival, Lundell, Barkov, Hirvonen, Granlund, Tolvanen, Hämeenaho, Laine, Järventie, Nikkanen, Aatu Räty, Puistola, Kuokkanen, Koivula etc etc. And there are plenty of others.
All of these players had issues with their skating and the young ones still continue to have that.

Also, when you consider that Barkov and Granlund have extraordinary IQ compared to these later ones, Lundell could be another one added to that list. Tolvanen is a lethal shooter like Laine.
I mean that's why most of them survived with Barkov perhaps being the exception having almost everything else besides speed and intensity.
In my opinion Laine and Tolvanen have top15-20 shots in the whole NHL. And it's obvious their stats at the junior age tells that they've had easy for hitting the net back then as well.
My point in all this? Hirvonen, Hämeenaho, Simontaival (decent shot but not Tolvanen level) and others aren't as sharp. An example: Take a player like Koivunen, he's not a sure bet for the NHL either. That's the funny thing when people shit on "Earlier" prospects like Samu Tuomaala. I would never state that he's a better player than Koivunen but when it comes to the NHL? I don't see Koivunen having an edge making it whatsoever and that's because If you don't have a great shot or some serious speed or some size or a lot of things combined? Then you will have a hard time making it there. Doesn't matter if you are good or pretty decent at everything.

I've noticed the same. Whatever the Slovak team is in a given year, they can at least skate. I've never heard an explanation for why they're such good skaters on average. It seems to me like they're better skaters on a team level than the Czechs most years.

Dvorsky seems to be the odd one out, but if you compare his skating to some of the Canadian top prospects skating (Perfetti, Wood, Geekie) it's in much better shape.

 

[Jukurit]

Okay so Kiviharju left TPS and now I see Suoniemi left their u20 for Kiekko-Espoo... Is there something going on in TPS that we are missing?

There was some drama going on in TPS this past season (allegedly). Sasha Huttunen on Twitter was writing about it (thread):

 

[Erikfromfin]

4 Finns in dailyfaceoff first round speculation next year
2024 NHL Draft: A very early top 32 ranking

 

[Svedu]

Finlands future looks pretty dark at the moment.

A lot of talents have not panned out since the draft out of 2018 and later. A lot of high round picks as well. The Czechs and Slovakia could be ahead of us in 5-7 years and the gap to Sweden seems to get bigger if anything.

 

[JJTT]

Finlands future looks pretty dark at the moment.

A lot of talents have not panned out since the draft out of 2018 and later. A lot of high round picks as well. The Czechs and Slovakia could be ahead of us in 5-7 years and the gap to Sweden seems to get bigger if anything.

It's becoming a sport for only rich kids. It costs like 500e per month total to play junior hockey, maybe even more. No wonder we don't produce talent anymore, hell most the bigger names are sons of former pro's

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I noticed this too. The last five drafts compared to Sweden have been very bad.

2024 draft for Finland looks good, but I don’t think that’ll undo weak drafts in prior years. A lot of Finnish players too are busting that were highly picked.

I wonder if one of the problems is their adjustment to North America. Kakko notoriously has a reputation as a very shy person and he’s constantly very hard on himself. It seems like he has confidence issues. There have also been issues with English skills with Puljujarvi and some others. Are these players being prepared well enough for North America prior to coming to the NHL?

 

[Svedu]

I noticed this too. The last five drafts compared to Sweden have been very bad.

2024 draft for Finland looks good, but I don’t think that’ll undo weak drafts in prior years. A lot of Finnish players too are busting that were highly picked.

I wonder if one of the problems is their adjustment to North America. Kakko notoriously has a reputation as a very shy person and he’s constantly very hard on himself. It seems like he has confidence issues. There have also been issues with English skills with Puljujarvi and some others. Are these players being prepared well enough for North America prior to coming to the NHL?

You are absolutely on to something here imho. I mean I don't get the impression Kakko and others are individuals that dare and want to take place in the locker room.

Laine, Aho and Lundell were a couple of prospects that gave me an other and more convincing impression regarding their mental toughness and attitude and I mean they've succeeded in some way at least.
Laine was and is perhaps the only who is more outspoken etc but I always felt that Aho and Lundell had those really focused eyes giving the impression that they were there to play. Teräväinen had this in his younger years as well.
Rantanen and Hintz gave some good impressions as well but I wasn't as sure.

Compare that to JP, Juolevi, Kupari and a lot of others. Juolevi always looked really afraid or had some serious sad eyes. Like he was insecure and unstable in some way and of course injuries were a big part of their regression or stagnation for some of them.

I really hope Kemell makes it and doesn't become another Pulkkinen because he still has some fire in his eyes and I'm convinced that he can pan out if the Preds can give him more opportunities than they gave Tolvanen.
Lambert would be needed with his speed for Team Finland in the future and I truly believe he has some serious talent no matter his IQ-issues etc. because his raw tools are that good and I hope and believe they will be more present in NA. The thing with him though is that he has that insecure look when it gets difficult. Just like plenty of other Finnish prospects.

Well let's look at 2019:
Kakko, should be better and I really hope he can become something. He was just so good and for me a bigger talent than Laf back in the day and still.
Thomson never convinced me as a prospect, I'm not sure he will ever become a top4 or a top6 even.
Heinola on the other hand? I really liked what I saw but the Jets and Finnish prospects... Let's just say they have been a horrible match.
Tuomisto, bust?
Puistola never convinced me really. But Aaltonen, Nikkanen, Saarela, Kallionkieli, Tieksola, Kokkonen... Dare I call them busts already?
Maccelli and Pärssinen are real highlights thank god. Puustinen should get a look soon I hope.

To be honest, there are so few highlights so it's easier to just name them instead.
2018: Kotkaniemi, well perhaps not a bust? But as a third? Far from success.
2019: Maccelli, Pärssinen and perhaps Puustinen and or Kakko in the future. Heinola? Who knows if he's stuck in the Jets.
2020: Lundell, I like him a lot still. Can Järventie become something? I hope so. I thought and believed a lot in Niemelä and Heinola so let's hope Niemelä pans out because god knows Finland really needs it.
I don't believe in Hirvonen nor Simontaival anymore. Jämsen, Pyyhtiä and Miettinen are my dark horses for a bottom 6 role in the future but that doesn't seem that likely yet.
2021: This one worries me the most. Rätys skating is horrible imo, lot weaker than Akus. He needs to work hard on that because he has some other tools and I hope he figures it out.
Tuomaala, Helenius look like busts already but I hope I'm wrong. Koivunen has regressed in my eyes but let's hope for the best. Kapanen, can he become a top9? Not so sure about that but I hope so. Just like Lambert we need those prospects who can skate to become something decent. Because we are pretty weak in that department overall.
Disappointed in Malinens development.
Huuhtanen, the last pick looks the most promising for me at this very moment. Vilén could perhaps become a NHL'er in the future but it's not a sure bet whatsoever.
2022: I hope Lambert pans out because he can be spectacular but he needs a staff that believes in him a lot because he has some issues with confidence when he struggles, besides his ability to read the game.
Kemell and Nyman do look promising still.
Matikka could become a dark horse as well. Hope Arizona succeeds once again like they did with Mac.
2023: I don't believe anyone is a clear cut. A tons of ifs with Hämeenaho and Halttunen.
Bau has the size. Nurmi has the speed and plays like a bottom 6-type. A bit like Hagelin once. Haven't seen Kumpulainen enough.

So yeah, all in all. We have Lundell, Pärssinen, Kakko, Maccelli, Kotkaniemi? Five sure NHL players... That's actually not bad, it's horrible.

 

[Jukurit]

2024 draft for Finland looks good, but I don’t think that’ll undo weak drafts in prior years. A lot of Finnish players too are busting that were highly picked.

I think 2024 draft is overrated for Finland. Helenius is very good. But Kiviharju is a small defenseman with mediocre skating who is showing signs of stagnation. He could be another big faller like Räty and Lambert. Finland's Hlinka team played like crap outside of fluke Canada game. Hemming and Suoniemi were the only impressive players on that team.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Some years ago there was a belief (by some Finnish coaches) that their prospects matured both physically and in terms of technical and tactical skills - later than their counterparts in other countries.

Is that the case?

 

[JJTT]

Some years ago there was a belief (by some Finnish coaches) that their prospects matured both physically and in terms of technical and tactical skills - later than their counterparts in other countries.

Is that the case?

Yeah for sure. Finnish kids mature a lot later for some reason. At the draft Americans and Canadiens look like grown man with beards at 18 and Finnish guys look like they just turned 14.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

I noticed this too. The last five drafts compared to Sweden have been very bad.

2024 draft for Finland looks good, but I don’t think that’ll undo weak drafts in prior years. A lot of Finnish players too are busting that were highly picked.

I wonder if one of the problems is their adjustment to North America. Kakko notoriously has a reputation as a very shy person and he’s constantly very hard on himself. It seems like he has confidence issues. There have also been issues with English skills with Puljujarvi and some others. Are these players being prepared well enough for North America prior to coming to the NHL?

The problem is that sm liiga management staff
and Finnish hockey association are too stupid and brain-dead
to realize that NHL is small rink game not airport rink game like SM liiga.
NHL sized rinks should've been in use all SM liiga arenas 10-15 yrs ago.

Also Finnish player agents are idiots
who don't understand that if some
Finnish junior hockey player is serious with his NHL dream it is
always better to go SHL / USHL / CHL route than SM liiga route.
Because in Sweden USA and Canada junior hockey coaching are lightyears ahead of Finland's coaching.

Finnish hockey is f***ed-up and badly
but unfortunately nothing won't change so long when
Harri Nummela and his kiss my ass sauna country club friends are in the charge.

And that's sad.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Thought I could post updated ranking getting into season. Soon Pohjola Camp and dig into 2026 class.

2024 Draft
1. Aron Kiviharju D
2. Konsta Helenius C/W
3. Veeti Väisänen D
4. Emil Hemming W
5. Eemil Vinni G
6. Tuomas Suoniemi C
7. Sebastian Soini D
8. Niilopekka Muhonen D
9. Roope Vesterinen W
10. Joona Saarelainen C/W
11. Julius Miettinen C/W
12. Petteri Rimpinen G
13. Kim Saarinen G
14. Heikki Ruohonen C/W
HM: Otto Hannikainen G
HM: Mitja Jokinen D
HM: Topias Hynninen C/W

Overagers
HM: Noa Vali G
HM: Benjamin Rautiainen C/W
HM: Emil Kuusla W

2025 Draft
1. Max Westergård W
2. Jesper Kotajärvi D
3. Eetu Orpana C
4. Julius Saari D
5. Lasse Boelius D
6. Rasmus Kämäräinen W
7. Jasu Mensonen C
8. Aaron Paju D
9. Atte Joki C/W
10. Aapo Vanninen C
11. Jere Somervuori W
12. Veeti Ruotsalainen D
13. Alvar Ervasti D
14. Benjamin Strömberg C
HM: Victor Björkenheim D
HM: Aapo Katavisto C
HM: Veeti Lamponen W

 

[Erikfromfin]

Jesse Pulkkinen starting to get some hype

Recrutes talks about him in this video

 

[Erikfromfin]

First JYP U20 game watching this season, they are pretty good team. These two behemoths Minkkinen and Pulkkinen are fun to watch. Pulkkinen with casual 1+3 after two periods, too bad robot camera didnt capture his goal I can only quess it was howitzer. His 3rd 4-point game in last 5 matches.

Scored 2nd goal late in 3rd... now 21 points in 11 games

 

[Jukurit]

First JYP U20 game watching this season, they are pretty good team. These two behemoths Minkkinen and Pulkkinen are fun to watch. Pulkkinen with casual 1+3 after two periods, too bad robot camera didnt capture his goal I can only quess it was howitzer. His 3rd 4-point game in last 5 matches.

Scored 2nd goal late in 3rd... now 21 points in 11 games

Do you have a scouting report on Pulkkinen?

 

[Erikfromfin]

Do you have a scouting report on Pulkkinen?

Theres pretty good one in the video

 

[Jukurit]

Jesse Pulkkinen starting to get some hype

Recrutes talks about him in this video

Wow. Pulkkinen looks like an insane prospect from those highlights. Giant d-man with slick hands, good skating and great shot. Obviously have to see how he does in Liiga first, but the potential there looks insane.

Only had 4 points in 43 games last season. Now already 21 point in 11 games. That's crazy.

 

[FinPanda]

This Wilmer Kallio ('08) kid may be interesting to follow. Son of Tomi Kallio. Scored 1+4 in first U16 game against Germany for the 2008 age group. Of course these games in general are blowouts but he is still an interesting name.

 

[Albatros]

Wow. Pulkkinen looks like an insane prospect from those highlights. Giant d-man with slick hands, good skating and great shot. Obviously have to see how he does in Liiga first, but the potential there looks insane.

Only had 4 points in 43 games last season. Now already 21 point in 11 games. That's crazy.

Would be by far the best season of all time by a defenseman if he keeps that up.