Finland vs Sweden: How intense and when it began?
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Rivalry began on January 20, 1156. Swedish rule was creeping in on the coattails of an English bishop and Lalli did the patriotic thing by killing him with an axe.
In ice hockey from the very beginning, in all sports Sweden is the #1 rivalry although in some sports they are better than us (e.g. football) and we are better in some (basketball, volleyball, bandy, ice hockey
).
Bandy is probably best comparable, really intense rivalry.
In ice hockey from the very beginning, in all sports Sweden is the #1 rivalry although in some sports they are better than us (e.g. football) and we are better in some (basketball, volleyball, bandy, ice hockey
).Bandy is probably best comparable, really intense rivalry.
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
and we are better in some (basketball, volleyball, bandy, ice hockey
.
wrong!
BennsGonnaGetYou
Registered User
Bandy is not true, you must mean floorball? However the only sport that matters is men's icehockey.Rivalry began on January 20, 1156. Swedish rule was creeping in on the coattails of an English bishop and Lalli did the patriotic thing by killing him with an axe.
In ice hockey from the very beginning, in all sports Sweden is the #1 rivalry although in some sports they are better than us (e.g. football) and we are better in some (basketball, volleyball, bandy, ice hockey
Bandy is probably best comparable, really intense rivalry.
VictorLustig
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- Feb 8, 2012
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I don't think it's ever been a very big rivalry. It's not like Norway-Sweden in cross-country skiing for example. I think the main reason for this is problems with communication as we don't speak the same tongue.
I'd say for most of hockey history Sweden has had the upper hand quite clearly. It was always an accomplishment when Finland could win against Sweden, and Sweden probably didn't consider Finland much of an adversary compared to the Soviets, Czechoslovakia or Canada. Between 1928-1967 Finland only won something like three games against Sweden. So I think the rivalry was quite mild early on. Hockey became a de facto national sport in Finland gradually starting from the 1970's. Even in the 1980's other sports like skiing, ski jumping, track & field etc. were relatively popular compared to today.
It was in the late 1980s and early 1990s that Finland had become good enough to challenge Sweden on an equal (or close to, considering the population difference) level. It's been quite even since then.
Old timers in Finland remember things like losing a 4-2 lead in the last minute of the game in 1986 or the repeat of that in 1991 when Sundin scored twice in the last minute to tie it 4-4 as moments that kind of set the feeling that Sweden always bests us or are "lucky" against us. Then came 1995 and many wounds were healed.
There's obviously a little brother thing involved at least from Finland's pov, but I think it's fading a bit now that we have actually won something occasionally. We were the underdog for so long and some of those last minute blunders left some scars.
It was in the late 1980s and early 1990s that Finland had become good enough to challenge Sweden on an equal (or close to, considering the population difference) level. It's been quite even since then.
Old timers in Finland remember things like losing a 4-2 lead in the last minute of the game in 1986 or the repeat of that in 1991 when Sundin scored twice in the last minute to tie it 4-4 as moments that kind of set the feeling that Sweden always bests us or are "lucky" against us. Then came 1995 and many wounds were healed.
There's obviously a little brother thing involved at least from Finland's pov, but I think it's fading a bit now that we have actually won something occasionally. We were the underdog for so long and some of those last minute blunders left some scars.
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Bringing that bishop was a cheap trick. Of course the full glory and allure of the Catholic church was intriguing to the restless natives. Yet it's possible that the new idea of a centralized king handling the government duties was sociologically interesting to the more progressive locals.
Be all that as it may, I'd too peg 12th century as the ballpark date when the rivalry started. The earlier visiting Vikings got their butts soundly kicked each time (until they, ever pragmatic, shifted into trading instead) so that distraction hardly counts.
Be all that as it may, I'd too peg 12th century as the ballpark date when the rivalry started. The earlier visiting Vikings got their butts soundly kicked each time (until they, ever pragmatic, shifted into trading instead) so that distraction hardly counts.
Porvari
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A win against Sweden in any sport has long been for Finns a way to keep down the nagging sensation that they are, in fact, second-rate Swedes. Historically, both Finns and Swedes have been your garden-variety Nordic Lutherans with an almost identical mindset, but Finns have been a bit poorer, a bit scruffier, a bit less fortunate in geopolitics, a bit less successful and connected internationally. There's also the tiny issue that Finland was, for centuries, under Swedish rule, and while thinking about that in terms of oppressor/oppressed is simplistic revisionism, the fact is that Swedish was the language of power and Finnish most definitely wasn't.
There was also the massive economic diaspora of the 60's and 70's that made Sweden a sore spot for many Finns, but if your team/athlete beat Sweden, you could forget for a moment that you were, in fact, welding Saabs in Trollhättan and your Swedish superiors were looking down at you. This obsession was reflected in hockey as well: a stereotypical tournament team of the 70's and 80's only started drinking after they had beaten the Swedes. (Which often led to glorious results like losing to East Germany.)
That dynamic is probably changing quickly nowadays, what with Finns not only doing better in team sports but also becoming more affluent, less traumatized by war and less obsessed with their own miserable history.
There was also the massive economic diaspora of the 60's and 70's that made Sweden a sore spot for many Finns, but if your team/athlete beat Sweden, you could forget for a moment that you were, in fact, welding Saabs in Trollhättan and your Swedish superiors were looking down at you. This obsession was reflected in hockey as well: a stereotypical tournament team of the 70's and 80's only started drinking after they had beaten the Swedes. (Which often led to glorious results like losing to East Germany.)
That dynamic is probably changing quickly nowadays, what with Finns not only doing better in team sports but also becoming more affluent, less traumatized by war and less obsessed with their own miserable history.
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Bruce Granville
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- Oct 11, 2014
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It started 1988 in Calgary.
The first time Finland hurt Sweden by beating Russia (then the Soviet Union) and „stealing“ Silver from the Swedes.
The first time Finland hurt Sweden by beating Russia (then the Soviet Union) and „stealing“ Silver from the Swedes.
IceHockeyDude
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The Cannon of Tesoma
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Various other indexes show similar trends. If backtracking the perspective to late '40s people would've probably laughed very loud if someone would've said that Finland does generally very well in late 2010s. With Sweden that would've been at least somewhat reasonable to think it can be the case.
@History freaks:
Just for note that Finland had to place 400000+ Karelians (about 10% of population) into their now smaller plot of land, while big parts of best developed industrial and agricultural areas of Finland were annexed by Soviet Union via Peace treaty. Meanwhile Lapland was demolished to the ground by Wehrmacht. Finns had to build actually large parts of their industrial production capacity for coping with war reparations. Despite of enormous difficulties, Finland were able to build their own version of Nordic Model Welfare State, and very profitable trade with Soviet Union played part in that process, regardless of the country's relative isolation toward the Western world.
There was other things to do that went over playing hockey...
Porvari
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Hard to compare, since the psychology behind those pairs is so different. Against Russia, you're trying to survive; against Sweden, you're trying to avoid being humiliated. One thing I can say for sure: losing the 2006 final in Turin to Russia would have hurt much less and felt much less personal.
If we're talking about this tournament in Bratislava for instance, I'd much rather have seen Finland lose to Russia. Looking at the Russian fans' celebrations I could have thought to myself that it's nice for them to get these moments of joy because at the end of the day they still have to return to Russia after the tournament. I guess the Swedish fans can take a somewhat similar approach to losing to Finland: "Good for you, little brother. Enjoy this cause next week you'll be returning to your gloomy land with tons of alcoholism and depression and people with crappy English."
I don't think that's true anymore for either of them. And hasn't been for a while. We play against both to win, not to avoid something.
VMBM
Hansel?!
Well, there was, for example, the 1972 Winter Olympics where Finland spoiled Sweden's chances for medal (with a 4-3 win). Also, at the 1976 Canada Cup, Finland's 8-6 victory (!) over Sweden meant that Sweden couldn't make it to the Final.
Bruce Granville
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Finland was only a few bananas away from medalling in their home WHC in 1974. That would have been huge back then.
Bruce Granville
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Was the Czech/Slovak-separation in 1993 amicable? Czechoslovakia was an artificial country as was Yugoslavia but as we know the break-up of the latter turned out to be a rather nasty affair.
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