WC: Finland 2024 roster talk

[FiLe]

I hope you're wrong because Helenius makes the team better on the ice, not in the stands. If he wouldn't have a role, why they invited him to sit in the stands?

Any player who makes the final cut should be there to make the team better - and I'm strictly talking on-ice. But a lineup can only provide regular TOI to 12 forwards at a time. So a team that features 14 forwards will have two of them on the sidelines. This much should be clear, right?

And since Helenius is hardly a bottom-six player, I took a look at the roster and made my best estimate on the six forwards who look likely to man those six slots. And I saw six guys with a higher chance than Helenius.

But I'm not Jalonen, so anyone is of course welcome to disagree with me. Please do tell me, who do you think should be cleared out of that top-six, or even the full 12-man lineup, to make room for Helenius?

 

[Playmaker82]

Im on your side here, @FiLe . Although he should get some minutes in the more easy games, the rest is about training, seeing, learning, and just maturing with the big boys. And not rushing.

As for lineup: If he playes he should take the spot of Jormakka, and then move Puljujarvi down there with Kapanen moving up and Granlund to the RW. Or he could move into 3C with Jormakka out and Hyry to RW.

Alt 1
INNALA - GRANLUND - PULJUJARVI
PUISTOLA - KAPANEN - PUUSTINEN
OKSANEN - HYRY - JORMAKKA
MÄENALANEN - BJÖRNINEN - PAKARINEN

Alt 2:
INNALA - GRANLUND - PULJUJARVI
PUISTOLA - KAPANEN - PUUSTINEN
OKSANEN - HELENIUS - HYRY
MÄENALANEN - BJÖRNINEN - PAKARINEN

Alt 3:
INNALA - KAPANEN - GRANLUND
PUISTOLA - HELENIUS - PUUSTINEN
OKSANEN - HYRY - PULJUJARVI
MÄENALANEN - BJÖRNINEN - PAKARINEN

 

[FinPanda]

Any player who makes the final cut should be there to make the team better - and I'm strictly talking on-ice. But a lineup can only provide regular TOI to 12 forwards at a time. So a team that features 14 forwards will have two of them on the sidelines. This much should be clear, right?

And since Helenius is hardly a bottom-six player, I took a look at the roster and made my best estimate on the six forwards who look likely to man those six slots. And I saw six guys with a higher chance than Helenius.

But I'm not Jalonen, so anyone is of course welcome to disagree with me. Please do tell me, who do you think should be cleared out of that top-six, or even the full 12-man lineup, to make room for Helenius?

I get where are you coming from, I just hope he will play from the first game. But it is up to Jalonen to decide.

 

[Mestaruus]

Lineup prediction:

Säteri (Larmi)

Lehtonen - Määttä
Riikola - Saarijärvi
Rissanen - Kaski
Mattila - Vittasmäki

Innala - Granlund - Puljujärvi
Puistola - Kapanen - Puustinen
Pakarinen - Hyry - Jormakka
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Oksanen

Going a bit conservative on Helenius here, which usually leaves room for pleasant surprises if he ends up penciled in from the get-go. I don't really see much use for him if he's not in the top-six, and especially if he's meant to be a center - that kind of responsibility on this level as a 17-year-old? Goes against most of the conformities of hockey. He could also make it as a winger, but whom could he really replace here? Jormakka perhaps - but as I just indicated, if a player like Jormakka makes it, they rarely end up sitting on the sidelines.

I say that indeed make Helenius a winger. Jormakka certainly won't get poisonous/cancerous if he won't play.

The weird thing about Helenius is that apparently he's surprisingly good at taking faceoffs for his age, even at this level. Very often it's an ability that gets better via experience. Jalonen surely loves that (like he loves Björninen for that) and combine it with his other good qualities, makes him an interesting case. Even as a winger he can be the main faceoff guy of a line (if the center is not doing well with that) or a backup faceoff guy, which is a nice bonus to have. Well U18 is U18, but the coach did play him on the PK as well. It won't happen in this tournament, but it just tells about his well rounded abilities. He's not completely useless in the defensive end is what I'm saying.

 

[Mestaruus]

I hope you're wrong because Helenius makes the team better on the ice, not in the stands. If he wouldn't have a role, why they invited him to sit in the stands?

I get the vibe that Jalonen has some kind of a boner for Helenius and he will play in the first game vs Czech(ia, gotta do it). Do keep in mind that my last vibe was that Saros joins, but turns out he's the new Ristolainen of goalies.

 

[FiLe]

Here's how I see slotting in Helenius, without too extensive shuffling of musical chairs:

Innala - Granlund - Puljujärvi
Puustinen - Kapanen - Helenius
Puistola - Hyry - Pakarinen
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Oksanen

One idea we shouldn't get fixated on is that Helenius is going to play center. Also I'm not personally so high on Jormakka that I see him as a must on the lineup - but like I said, he has a ton of those "coach's pet" qualities, which makes the coach actually sitting him something you'll find a moderately pleasant surprise against your better expectations. I'm 100% in agreement with all who think that Helenius will provide more entertainment value.

 

[Mestaruus]

I'll probably make everyone mad when I say this, but think that people over here overrate Ahti Oksanen. No big difference with him or Pakarinen for example. I rather have Mäenalanen in the team as well.

Mäenalanen-Björninen is something I don't want to break, but
Mäenalanen-Björninen-Oksanen I don't mind breaking. He's not Mörkö of the good old times! In the last tournament Oksanen was overrated as well.

Do we really need this many grinders as are featured in the top-12. I'm not saying it has to be Oksanen that gets cut, but we can remove one grinder and have Helenius and who ever in, even Jormakka over one grinder. At least do this against some weaker teams. If we play vs a stacked team Sweden, maybe grinder based roster is the way to go.

 

[FiLe]

Do keep in mind that my last vibe was that Saros joins, but turns out he's the new Ristolainen of goalies.

No need to compare him to a skater, as we have long traditions of elite goalies declining WC invitations. Just look at the records of Kiprusoff and Rask in that regard. And, no, it's not either because they were "always" in the playoffs.

In the last tournament Oksanen was overrated as well.

Have to disagree here. To me, Oksanen was one of the highlights. Although, in his role he was mainly getting compared to Mörkö, who was getting too old and too slow.

 

[Mestaruus]

No need to compare him to a skater, as we have long traditions of elite goalies declining WC invitations. Just look at the records of Kiprusoff and Rask in that regard. And, no, it's not either because they were "always" in the playoffs.



Have to disagree here. To me, Oksanen was one of the highlights. Although, in his role he was mainly getting compared to Mörkö, who was getting too old and too slow.

Oksanen was all right in the last tournament, but still overrated in my opinion. He indeeed was an upgrade to the old Mörkö but just a shadow compared to the prime Mörkö few years before that. Nothing really changes if Pakarinen is on that 4th line's wing. I just don't see him as an automatic lock. Got many grinders above him or at his level. The guy is expendable.

Your point about elite Finnish goalies declining is good and true. It wouldn't surprise me if Saros has one of those same agents of Rask & Kipper whispering stuff in his ear. It is disappointing, Pekka Rinne, some kind of goalie mentor of his did come bit more often. He needs to go visit Pekka's sauna at Nashville, where Pekka will give a fatherly beating to his adopted son.

 

[Svedu]

I love to read your passionated opinions and clever thoughts in here. Thank you guys.

My only question is, won't Sweden be big time favorites on paper this year? There D is almost best-on-best level?

 

[FiLe]

Nothing really changes if Pakarinen is on that 4th line's wing. I just don't see him as an automatic lock. Got many grinders above him or at his level. The guy is expendable.

Penalty kill. Oksanen will be a key part of that, and does surpass Pakarinen in the role. Ideally, the main four doing that will be Björninen, Hyry, Oksanen and Mäenalanen, with Pakarinen (or, in a pinch, Granlund) subbing in if it's one of the main four in the box.

So, no, we don't have "too many" grinders in the main lineup - we have 4-5, which is the ideal amount. Less than that will be too little, while more of them will be too many.

Is Oksanen indispensable? No, you can safely boot him. But you won't be making room for Helenius - you'll be making room for Jääskä.

 

[FiLe]

My only question is, won't Sweden be big time favorites on paper this year? There D is almost best-on-best level?

Seems like it, yes. The back end especially looks pretty strong, at least on paper.

But why are you asking about this in here? Doesn't this forum have its own thread for Sweden? Or did a mod merge that one too with our U18 thread?

 

[Svedu]

Seems like it, yes. The back end especially looks pretty strong, at least on paper.

But why are you asking about this in here? Doesn't this forum have its own thread for Sweden? Or did a mod merge that one too with our U18 thread?

Because your opinions matters to me. And because Finland, at least on mens level together with Jukka Jalonen always seem somewhat competitive. But I was still interested if people think that makes us as big of a contender or "Just" a contender.
Is it okay for you that I' m curious?

Personally I think this roster and the final level of the product will be very uncertain. But very, very exciting. Because those "Unsafe" or uncertain cards like Helenius, Kapanen, Puustinen and Puljujärvi are the ones that excite me the most.
Granny and Määttä have to carry a big load of responsibility but I trust them at this level. But I think those unsafe options, together with Puistola and perhaps even our goalies does also mean that we aren't the biggest favorites on paper... And I quite like it.

 

[FinPanda]

This team in a clear underdog but it is quite fresh group and I'm excited to see what hey can do in the tournament.

 

[FiLe]

Is it okay for you that I' m curious?

Of course it is. Curiousity, paired with a healthy self-preservation instinct, is one of the greatest qualities of mankind. There is no progress without it.

Personally I think this roster and the final level of the product will be very uncertain. But very, very exciting. Because those "Unsafe" or uncertain cards like Helenius, Kapanen, Puustinen and Puljujärvi are the ones that excite me the most.

Mhm. A no-name roster is not always equal to a weak roster. Many of the guys on this team are unproven, which means they're no-names not because they're scrubs, but because we don't know yet where they will fall on the scale of scrub vs. star. Some might fall closer to the former end, but I expect quite a few to fall towards the latter. And that's what makes this exciting.

It's the same as it was in 2019. Look at where many of those "no-names" are now, and how many of them we would gladly have back. (Or were glad to have back before their due dates, which was a bit of an issue a year ago.)

 

[Isola]

With Dallas advancing, surely all players will be registered right away?

 

[FinPanda]

With Dallas advancing, surely all players will be registered right away?

Yeah most likely.

Anyway, I thought I'd be more annoyed that we won't get any additions now, but seeing Vegas losing brings me more joy. We have a good team who is ready to surprise.

 

[FiLe]

I suppose it's not completely out of the question that they keep a couple of spots open. The 2nd round has some interesting matchups. CAR could fall to NYR. (Kakko will be contractless, though, if CAR advances.) Also, it's going to be COL vs. DAL in the west, which guarantees that some top shelf Finns will be eliminated.

 

[WayTooCold]

What a crappy team.
Not gonna waste 1 second of my time watching these bums.
Not that I care whether they place last or first. Doesn't matter to me one flying f***.
Jalonen should have been gone.
Björninen another swan dive.

 

[Albatros]

I suppose it's not completely out of the question that they keep a couple of spots open. The 2nd round has some interesting matchups. CAR could fall to NYR. (Kakko will be contractless, though, if CAR advances.) Also, it's going to be COL vs. DAL in the west, which guarantees that some top shelf Finns will be eliminated.

Can't imagine either series will be a sweep, meaning they'd likely miss the entire group phase either way.

 

[FiLe]

Can't imagine either series will be a sweep, meaning they'd likely miss the entire group phase either way.

Game 5 for COL-DAL is scheduled for May 15, Game 6 for May 17. So unless the series goes to Game 7, the potential additions would likely get at least three games: FIN-DEN on May 20, FIN-SUI on May 21, and the QF. If the series ends in five, they could even make FIN-CAN on the 18th.

I mean, I'm not really holding my breath for any late additions, but that's a plausible schedule.

 

[Albatros]

Wouldn't make any sense to play jetlagged on day one. A day or two of recovery in North America before the flight and the same upon arrival in Czechia.

 

[Finnswiss]

Final team

Maalivahdit:
29 Harri Säteri, EHC Biel, NLA
30 Lassi Lehtinen, MoDo Hockey, SHL
32 Emil Larmi, Växjö Lakers HC, SHL

Puolustajat:
2 Rasmus Rissanen, Örebro HK, SHL
3 Olli Määttä, Detroit Red Wings, NHL
4 Mikko Lehtonen, ZSC Lions, NLA
7 Oliwer Kaski, HV71, SHL
18 Vili Saarijärvi, SCL Tigers, NLA
33 Veli-Matti Vittasmäki, Tappara Tampere
50 Juuso Riikola, SCL Tigers, NLA
82 Jesper Mattila, KalPa Kuopio

Hyökkääjät:
12 Jere Innala, Frölunda HC, SHL
15 Juha Jääskä, HIFK Helsinki
19 Konsta Helenius, Jukurit Mikkeli
21 Patrik Puistola, Jukurit Mikkeli
24 Hannes Björninen, Örebro HK, SHL
25 Pekka Jormakka, Jukurit Mikkeli
39 Jesse Puljujärvi, Pittsburgh Penguins, NHL
48 Valtteri Puustinen, Pittsburgh Penguins, NHL
57 Arttu Hyry, Kärpät Oulu
64 Mikael Granlund, San Jose Sharks, NHL
71 Ahti Oksanen, IK Oskarshamn, SHL
79 Oliver Kapanen, KalPa Kuopio
80 Saku Mäenalanen, SCL Tigers, NLA
81 Iiro Pakarinen, HIFK Helsinki

It's nice to see some players who played this season in the Swiss national league. Mikko Lehtonen, who won the title with the ZSC Lions, contributed quite a lot to this success. Säteris' season for EHC Biel was quite good too.

And I'm glad that Mikael Granlund participates at the WHC. I always remember his airhook goal against Russia; I'm not sure if it was 2011, but it's a long time ago in any case. I'm no longer sure about the year.

By the way, Arttu Hyry, Rasmus Rissanen, Veli-Matti Vittasmäki, and Juha Jääskä, will this be their first participation at the WHC for the Finnish NT? These names are new for me, or I don't remember them having already played at the WHC.

 

[Mestaruus]

I suppose it's not completely out of the question that they keep a couple of spots open. The 2nd round has some interesting matchups. CAR could fall to NYR. (Kakko will be contractless, though, if CAR advances.) Also, it's going to be COL vs. DAL in the west, which guarantees that some top shelf Finns will be eliminated.

Two slots would be the most optimistic guess of mine as well. It can't be more than that and it could be less than 2 slots. Jere Lehtinen with his Dallas connections will get the Dallas boys on the plane quickly if Colorado can eliminate them quickly. I have no idea how that series will go, but 4-0 either way doesn't sound very realistic.

 

[Mestaruus]

My only question is, won't Sweden be big time favorites on paper this year? There D is almost best-on-best level?

I haven't looked at the other teams' rosters that much but I as well noticed how strong roster Sweden will have and they have to be the clear gold favorites. If they don't win gold, it's their own failure. I don't think their new coach is Jukka Jalonen level tournament coach, but it doesn't matter if their roster will be that superior, but it is hockey and anything can happen as we saw with team Mörkö in 2019 I believe.

I'm guessing Czechia as the home team will get better roster on paper than us, but our coaching > theirs. The home crowd will balance the scale though. Team Finland of course will be one of the main challengers of team Sweden. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of roster Canada brings as they have on recent years been even more consistent champion or medalist than team Finland.

USA is USA, a team that will never win a WHC gold (always say never on USA & WHC). So that's that, but we can't forget Switzerland. Their top players will be better than our's but I think our depth & coaching > theirs. I wouldn't want our team to face SUI in a QF game though.