WC: Finland 2024 roster talk

[FiLe]

One bit of good news: Austria plays Norway tomorrow on the 19th, we play Denmark on the 20th. That means we know by our next game if we can clinch our QF berth by winning vs. DEN on regulation (if NOR takes points from AUT), or if we need to scrape something from Switzerland too. This also means that Norway's chances of making the quarters is not lost yet - their theoretical maximum is 9, and their final opponent is GB. Of course, their chance depends on us dropping points vs. DEN, but Norway has no reason to think it's completely not within reason.

 

[FinPanda]

Jalonen should've probably stopped coaching the national team after last years tournament. I guess he just doesn't have the passion anymore and it shows on the team.

 

[Mestaruus]

Jalonen should've probably stopped coaching the national team after last years tournament. I guess he just doesn't have the passion anymore and it shows on the team.

Indeed, it's good time for a change of guard. Any idea by the way if Pennanen's coaching staff has been announced yet?

I know that these large language models suck with sports, but had to try and the answer was pure comedy. ChatGPT 4.0o:

"Jukka Jalonen, who recently stepped down as head coach of the Finnish national ice hockey team, will be succeeded by Jussi Ahokas as the new head coach. His assistant coaches will include Petri Matikainen and Ari Moisanen. Matikainen brings extensive coaching experience, having previously served as an assistant coach for the Finnish national team and held head coach positions in the Finnish league (Liiga) and the Kontinental Hockey League (KHL). Moisanen, known for his expertise as a goaltending coach, has also contributed significantly to the Finnish national team's success in various international competitions."

 

[FinPanda]

Indeed, it's good time for a change of guard. Any idea by the way if Pennanen's coaching staff has been announced yet?

No idea, I don't think so but I may be wrong.

 

[Mestaruus]

What an ending for Jukka Jalonen's legendary coaching career in the Finnish NT if he can't even make it out of the group stage. I thought that it would be impossible for him to accomplish, but it seems like a real possibility now.

My own guess is around 15% that we won't make it out of the group stage, assuming we beat DEN on regulation and then either we get 1 point from SUI or Austria fails by loosing 1 point of their 6 potential points. So plenty of chances for us to make it still. Unfortunately I have to also predict that we'll hit the wall against Sweden in the QF.

 

[FiLe]

Any idea by the way if Pennanen's coaching staff has been announced yet?

A few months ago. Jussi Tapola, Mikko Manner, and Aki Näykki as the goalie coach.

 

[FinPanda]

What an ending for Jukka Jalonen's legendary coaching career in the Finnish NT if he can't even make it out of the group stage. I thought that it would be impossible for him to accomplish, but it seems like a real possibility now.

My own guess is around 15% that we won't make it out of the group stage, assuming we beat DEN on regulation and then either we get 1 point from SUI or Austria fails by loosing 1 point of their 6 potential points. So plenty of chances for us to make it still. Unfortunately I have to also predict that we'll hit the wall against Sweden in the QF.

To be honest, if we don't make it past the group stage, maybe it changes things on Finnish ice hockey. We are going downhill fast and we need to change things or we will end up dropping down sooner of later.

Also don't forget Sweden didn't make past the group stage like two years ago. It has happened to them as well. It could happen to us.

 

[FiLe]

Missing out on the QF is not the end of the world. Is it vexing? Sure. But it's not so major a difference from a QF loss. As long as it's not relegation, there'll be an opportunity to bounce back the next year. And at least it teaches one to not take anything for granted. In fact, I've always been kind of annoyed by everyone saying, "Nobody cares how the preliminary stage goes, it's the eighth game that will decide everything." (However, I also find the unnecessary doomerism predicting missing out when the odds speak against it equally silly.) Well, if you grow too complacent, there will be no game number eight. So keep your head in the game, even against the minnows. That's what our boys obviously forgot vs. AUT.

However, while the prospect of missing out on the QF looms heavy, we probably should still wait and see how NOR-AUT goes tomorrow. If Norway wins, our chance of making it jumps back to the high nineties.

 

[FinPanda]

Missing out on the QF is not the end of the world. Is it vexing? Sure. But it's not so major a difference from a QF loss. As long as it's not relegation, there'll be an opportunity to bounce back the next year. And at least it teaches one to not take anything for granted. In fact, I've always been kind of annoyed by everyone saying, "Nobody cares how the preliminary stage goes, it's the eighth game that will decide everything." (However, I also find the unnecessary doomerism predicting missing out when the odds speak against it equally silly.) Well, if you grow too complacent, there will be no game number eight. So keep your head in the game, even against the minnows. That's what our boys obviously forgot vs. AUT.

However, while the prospect of missing out on the QF looms heavy, we probably should still wait and see how NOR-AUT goes tomorrow. If Norway wins, our chance of making it jumps back to the high nineties.

Norway win or if the game is tied and we are in just with regulation win over Denmark.

 

[SantosHalper]

Jalonen should've probably stopped coaching the national team after last years tournament. I guess he just doesn't have the passion anymore and it shows on the team.

I don't think it's that, he has looked more pissed than usual i think he still cares. But this makes me think that the decline of finnish hockey has reached men's level, like it has junior level but i want to see a bigger sample size first.

There's been difficult group stages before, 2014 & 2021 for example. In 2014 we actually needed Switzerland to beat Latvia in regular time, just to make it in the Q-final stage and we eventually reached the gold medal game. 2021 group stage we lost to Kazakhstan and barely won Latvia in OT, and again eventually reaching gold medal game.

Doesn't look too good right now but let's see it through first. I would make line changes for the next game.

Granlund - Kapanen - Puljujärvi
- all eggs in one basket-solution is not my favourite but we need goals
Jääskä - Hyry - Pakarinen
- 2nd shut down line, gritty nothing fancy straight to the net hockey
Puistola - Helenius - Jormakka
- we need goals, Innala&Puustinen have troubles finding the back of the net. So we should try the Jukurit-line
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Oksanen
- 1st shut down line, they know their role

Larmi in goal

 

[FinPanda]

If thinking about positives..

Lindell, Hintz, Heiskanen, Barkov, Luostarinen, Kakko, Lundell and Mikkola still playing more important games in the NHL. Best Finns are the best where they should be. Shame about Aho, Rantanen, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi & Teräväinen though.

 

[Sanf]

I don't think it's that, he has looked more pissed than usual i think he still cares. But this makes me think that the decline of finnish hockey has reached men's level, like it has junior level but i want to see a bigger sample size first.

There's been difficult group stages before, 2014 & 2021 for example. In 2014 we actually needed Switzerland to beat Latvia in regular time, just to make it in the Q-final stage and we eventually reached the gold medal game. 2021 group stage we lost to Kazakhstan and barely won Latvia in OT, and again eventually reaching gold medal game.

Doesn't look too good right now but let's see it through first. I would make line changes for the next game.

Granlund - Kapanen - Puljujärvi
- all eggs in one basket-solution is not my favourite but we need goals
Jääskä - Hyry - Pakarinen
- 2nd shut down line, gritty nothing fancy straight to the net hockey
Puistola - Helenius - Jormakka
- we need goals, Innala&Puustinen have troubles finding the back of the net. So we should try the Jukurit-line
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Oksanen
- 1st shut down line, they know their role

Larmi in goal

Yeah nothing is lost yet as it is on our own hands still. I´m more worried about our goaltending and defence. Säteri has been shaky. But does not help that the whole defence in front of him have been shaky. So many mistakes. Missing guys like Atte Ohtamaa already. Not that he did not make mistakes ever, but defence has been adventure at points in this tournament.

 

[Sanf]

If thinking about positives..

Lindell, Hintz, Heiskanen, Barkov, Luostarinen, Kakko, Lundell and Mikkola still playing more important games in the NHL. Best Finns are the best where they should be. Shame about Aho, Rantanen, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi & Teräväinen though.

Tongue in cheek Cup usually avoid Finns so this would be really chance for Canadian team to win cup. Neither has Finns. And Vancouver even has Swedish GM. Oilers has atleast Jokerilegend Virmanen.

But more seriously for years the talk has been "Finns play in so bad teams". I have so many times asked, but aren´t the Finns part of the team? Now we have players that are key factors in teams that make it to the conference finals and even final.

 

[Sanf]

Kuokkanen, Turkulainen, Somppi, Kupari, Robin Salo, Topi Niemelä, Räty brothers, Nyman, Huuhtanen, Koivunen, Saarela, Lammikko, Heponiemi, Veeti Miettinen etc? Feel like a couple of these players could've been a bit more exciting than others in this roster?

Weren't players of this calibre interesting for this years roster when the overall level seems very low?

Who knows maybe some of those players would have fit to the team. But some like Kuokkanen did not perform well in EHT and those games should matter. Huuhtanen choosed to go to Syracuse and is still in (though he is healthy scratch?).

Then the young players. Some of them dropped from AHL playoffs roughly week before this tournament. So they would have needed to be additions to last EHT or even final team. Cutting players who have commited to EHT´s and even over month of their "vacation" to camp before tournament. In favour of wild card youngster from minor league who has no showings from NT. I don´t think that is good way to go by logic or fairness. We are building fantasy teams, but Jalonen co. are building team with actual people.

 

[ijuka]

If thinking about positives..

Lindell, Hintz, Heiskanen, Barkov, Luostarinen, Kakko, Lundell and Mikkola still playing more important games in the NHL. Best Finns are the best where they should be. Shame about Aho, Rantanen, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi & Teräväinen though.

Yeah, except Pastrnak is joining Czechia's team. Weird, right? Players can join a team after they get eliminated in the second round? Someone should have told Jalonen.

 

[FinPanda]

Yeah, except Pastrnak is joining Czechia's team. Weird, right? Players can join a team after they get eliminated in the second round? Someone should have told Jalonen.

I mean Jalonen made the decision knowing there will be players available after round 2 no matter what and he decided to not wait for them. He was aware of it.

 

[Mestaruus]

A few months ago. Jussi Tapola, Mikko Manner, and Aki Näykki as the goalie coach.

Okay, interesting. This probably increases the chance that Tapola might some day get a chance to be the national team head coach as well. I don't know whether that's a good thing or not, because my vibe about Tapola is that he's another Marjamäki, which means a good club team coach, but not a good tournament coach, but that's just my feeling or pure guess about it.

 

[Mestaruus]

To be honest, if we don't make it past the group stage, maybe it changes things on Finnish ice hockey. We are going downhill fast and we need to change things or we will end up dropping down sooner of later.

Also don't forget Sweden didn't make past the group stage like two years ago. It has happened to them as well. It could happen to us.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that this team doesn't have what it takes, so it's not that big of a deal to me if the team goes out in the preliminary stage, rathen than gets to play vs Sweden, but of course I want to see an extra game of Finland and miracles do happen, especially with Jalonen's teams so all hope is not lost. Changes regarding the Finnish NT and it's systems are indeed needed on every level, juniors, women and so on.

 

[Mestaruus]

Granlund - Kapanen - Puljujärvi
- all eggs in one basket-solution is not my favourite but we need goals
Jääskä - Hyry - Pakarinen
- 2nd shut down line, gritty nothing fancy straight to the net hockey
Puistola - Helenius - Jormakka
- we need goals, Innala&Puustinen have troubles finding the back of the net. So we should try the Jukurit-line
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Oksanen
- 1st shut down line, they know their role

Larmi in goal

I liked everything about that, but you had to ruin it at the end with that Larmi suggestion
! I trust Säteri more still. Säteri was a beast when the tournament started and I think he still hasn't lost it. He played one average game against CAN, but it wasn't a catastrophe. Our team defense was just too soft near the net, which gave Canada too many quality chances and they of course have enough individual skill to score out of those chances. Also too many puck turnovers.

 

[FinPanda]

I mean, I'm pretty sure that this team doesn't have what it takes, so it's not that big of a deal to me if the team goes out in the preliminary stage, rathen than gets to play vs Sweden, but of course I want to see an extra game of Finland and miracles do happen, especially with Jalonen's teams so all hope is not lost. Changes regarding the Finnish NT and it's systems are indeed needed on every level, juniors, women and so on.

At least no matter what it is in our own hands. We just need to win all games from now and we win gold. 5 wins to gold meadal.

 

[Mestaruus]

At least no matter what it is in our own hands. We just need to win all games from now and we win gold. 5 wins to gold meadal.

Yep and if we can't beat a single top team in the preliminary stage, we don't deserve to be in the playoffs. Besides we don't even need a win against SUI, because a tie (one point) should be enough, assuming that the team is able to do the minimum and beat Denmark.

Denmark won't give it for free though as they might think that they can get a QF spot by beating Finland and if some how Austria fails against GBR, which is quite unlikely though...

It's still interesting to see this unusual story. It's entertainment and it makes the Denmark and SUI games a lot more exciting.

 

[FinPanda]

Yep and if we can't beat a single top team in the preliminary stage, we don't deserve to be in the playoffs. Besides we don't even need a win against SUI, because a tie (one point) should be enough, assuming that the team is able to do the minimum and beat Denmark.

Denmark won't give it for free though as they might think that they can get a QF spot by beating Finland and if some how Austria fails against GBR, which is quite unlikely though...

Yeah I know we need only 1 point from Swiss but sounds better if we just win 5 games

 

[SantosHalper]

I liked everything about that, but you had to ruin it at the end with that Larmi suggestion
! I trust Säteri more still. Säteri was a beast when the tournament started and I think he still hasn't lost it. He played one average game against CAN, but it wasn't a catastrophe.

Average against Austria too. Säteri is number 1 in JJ's book but i'd be surprised if Larmi doesn't play against Denmark.

 

[FinPanda]

Average against Austria too. Säteri is number 1 in JJ's book but i'd be surprised if Larmi doesn't play against Denmark.

Imo playing Säteri at this point would be a mistake. You're right.

 

[FiLe]

The difference between Säteri and Larmi is that Säteri is somewhat more consistent - his highs and lows are more even - whereas with Larmi, you can get anything from "whoops, another softie" to "god mode".