Player Discussion Filip Hronek - Pt. 2

[bossram]

The narrative swings on Hronek are incredible.

I was not that high on Hronek pre-trade, have been consistent in critiquing his defensive play all season, and I've taken a lot a flak for it here. But now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

He was never going to be at the level of a Devon Toews. He was never going to be a high-end top-pairing defenseman. He is what he is, and he is a fairly effective top-four, mobile defenseman. Not a defensive stalwart.

Whether they re-sign him or trade him depends on the numbers involved, but it will be difficult to find a high-end, mobile, RD to plug into his place.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Whether they re-sign him or trade him depends on the numbers involved, but it will be difficult to find a high-end, mobile, RD to plug into his place.

Sign Tanev (not exactly mobile but whatever) and another #4-5 like the Soucy signing, in the hopes that Willander can fill-in in the next 1-2 years.

 

[DFAC]

The narrative swings on Hronek are incredible.

I was not that high on Hronek pre-trade, have been consistent in critiquing his defensive play all season, and I've taken a lot a flak for it here. But now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

He was never going to be at the level of a Devon Toews. He was never going to be a high-end top-pairing defenseman. He is what he is, and he is a fairly effective top-four, mobile defenseman. Not a defensive stalwart.

Whether they re-sign him or trade him depends on the numbers involved, but it will be difficult to find a high-end, mobile, RD to plug into his place.

To be fair - his play has taken a nosedive in the last few months so the criticism is definitely warranted.

 

[credulous]

The narrative swings on Hronek are incredible.

I was not that high on Hronek pre-trade, have been consistent in critiquing his defensive play all season, and I've taken a lot a flak for it here. But now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

He was never going to be at the level of a Devon Toews. He was never going to be a high-end top-pairing defenseman. He is what he is, and he is a fairly effective top-four, mobile defenseman. Not a defensive stalwart.

Whether they re-sign him or trade him depends on the numbers involved, but it will be difficult to find a high-end, mobile, RD to plug into his place.

i still think they gave up too much for him and i think they should avoid giving him term if possible but the way the sentiment here went from top 30 dman to barely better than juulsen is absurd. he's an okay top 4 defender with some fairly obvious flaws. his performance hasn't really changed much in his 15 months here

 

[bossram]

Sign Tanev (not exactly mobile but whatever) and another #4-5 like the Soucy signing, in the hopes that Willander can fill-in in the next 1-2 years.

That's what they would have to do, but neither Tanev nor whatever other 4/5 guy they can find will give them the creative element that Hronek and Hughes have together.

To be fair - his play has taken a nosedive in the last few months so the criticism is definitely warranted.

I don't think his defensive play has really declined at all. It's the same as it was. I was pointing out Hronek's defensive mistakes in November.

People are just noticing now because he isn't scoring the points to mask them.

i still think they gave up too much for him and i think they should avoid giving him term if possible but the way the sentiment here went from top 30 dman to barely better than juulsen is absurd. he's an okay top 4 defender with some fairly obvious flaws. his performance hasn't really changed much in his 15 months here

Bolded is exactly right. And that's been my position. Been people's opinions on him just swinging wildly though.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

If LA does a retool and frees up cap (maybe by a Dubois buyout), who says no in a deal involving Hronek(+?) for Clarke(+?)?

 

[bossram]

If LA does a retool and frees up cap (maybe by a Dubois buyout), who says no in a deal involving Hronek(+?) for Clarke(+?)?

LA *should* say no.

 

[Raistlin]

LA *should* say no.

Why would LA do that? Esp after seeing the limitations of Hronek and the money he would command? Unless Clarke's awkward skating really hampers his pro development.

 

[Raistlin]

The disappointment of EP this series masked how pedestrian Hronek played this series. I argue that everyone in the back end stepped up their game in a big way, and Hronek was the only one that was left wanting, normally that is okay to be pedestrian in one 6 game series.

But the guy wants more money than Hughes.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

The disappointment of EP this series masked how pedestrian Hronek played this series. I argue that everyone in the back end stepped up their game in a big way, and Hronek was the only one that was left wanting, normally that is okay to be pedestrian in one 6 game series.

But the guy wants more money than Hughes.

Like Tocchet says

What happened in round 1 doesn’t matter now

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The narrative swings on Hronek are incredible.

I was not that high on Hronek pre-trade, have been consistent in critiquing his defensive play all season, and I've taken a lot a flak for it here. But now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way.

He was never going to be at the level of a Devon Toews. He was never going to be a high-end top-pairing defenseman. He is what he is, and he is a fairly effective top-four, mobile defenseman. Not a defensive stalwart.

Whether they re-sign him or trade him depends on the numbers involved, but it will be difficult to find a high-end, mobile, RD to plug into his place.

Same same.

 

[DFAC]

Id rather have Zadorov and Myers for less than what Hronek is asking. Easily.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Id rather have Zadorov and Myers for less than what Hronek is asking. Easily.

Zadorov is going to be expensive.

And his usual brain farts have been few and far between but I would not expect this to continue from year to year.

 

[lawrence]

If we trade him I hope we have another rhd in place or we also trade him for another rhd.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Thought Hronek was pretty reliable the last couple games. Not the offense you want if he's expecting that money though.

 

[Hodgy]

That's what they would have to do, but neither Tanev nor whatever other 4/5 guy they can find will give them the creative element that Hronek and Hughes have together.

The creative element is almost 100% driven by Hughes. Hronek is a decent offensive defenseman that skates well and plays pretty average defense.

Hronek is relatively valuable in his own right because of the shortage in top four right handed defensemen, but let’s not pretend he’s some sort of condition precedent to Hughes’ creative play.

 

[bossram]

The creative element is almost 100% driven by Hughes. Hronek is a decent offensive defenseman that skates well and plays pretty average defense.

Hronek is relatively valuable in his own right because of the shortage in top four right handed defensemen, but let’s not pretend he’s some sort of condition precedent to Hughes’ creative play.

Of course Hughes is the driver. Saying otherwise is ridiculous. That is not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying, is, what I've think we've seen with Hronek is if that if you want to unlock the most you can out of Hughes (which when gifted a Norris calibre player, you should), ideally you need a guy with some above-average level of creativity and mobility next to him.

That doesn't necessarily have to be Hronek. But like you said, given the scarcity of that kind of player, also being right-handed, it will be hard to find a roughly equivalent replacement. I've advocated signing a Tanev, Roy, or Demelo this offseason, but they aren't that player type.

 

[Icebreakers]

Team is going to have quite a bit of turnover next season.

Hronek
Lindholm
Zadorov
Cole
Bleuger
Joshua
Lafferty
Myers
DeSmith

All UFA or RFA.

Probably keep like half of those players.

 

[Peen]

I subscribe to the ideology of not overthinking things when you have a top four D. Just retain them if it’s remotely reasonable.

I also don’t like overreacting to playoff samples. But this isn’t like Benning with Bonino making fourth line money not getting puck luck under a shit coach - this is a player with a pattern of falling off in the second half of a season. He’s had his ice time slashed pretty hard.

I never thought Hronek’s camps demands were reasonable, but what’s changed for me in recent months is what the reasonable middle ground was. When Allvin suggested his previous offer was fair (6.5x8) or whatever - I thought it fell in line with previous comps but ignored Hronek’s strong arbitration case and the rising cap. Seemed like an obvious put your flag in the ground offer.

Now… I don’t know how much more you’d pay above that. And I really don’t think people are being honest if they say they feel equally good about giving him a 7.5x8 as they did 6 months ago.

I think this series vs Edmonton is going to be big for him. More eyes on us now.

He had 12 points in the second half of this season. 0 in 6 against Nashville.

-1, 12 points in 46 games combined.

Lower ice time than Zadorov who was very clearly being used in a #5 role up until the playoffs.

 

[sting101]

I'm not on the trade Hronek train as the duo has had a major impact on being able to tilt the ice and change how we can attack teams but the 7 or 8yr deal would be an absolute non starter for me.

Cant for the life of me see how Seattle can sign a better but similar player in Dunn to 4yrs and then we cannot do the same. Hronek is not the kind of player that we should be worried about giving a legacy contract to and in fact while i use the Dunn comp it's also important to outline how much more effective Dunn is at goal scoring and in his execution. Given role production and ice time these are very critical differences when evaluating worth

The one thing that has surprised me about Hronek was Red Wing fans weren't that complimentary of his skating while i think his mobility and engagement are his best features and have been disappointed in his offensive execution. His shot while hard and done with a good release is just terribly inaccurate as are a lot of his set up plays. His off puck play has also been a little better than i thought. Helps obviously having the puck so much vs trying to get it

At 27 we shouldn't be paying for potential. It seems his agent is playing the RD potential and points card while we all have seen a drop off in play a lacking offensive game and a player that has mooched much of this next level (potential) success off of Hughes.

The smart play is to give him 4yrs at market which will bridge to Willanders 2nd contract and him to 31 when it's likely a player with his profile and reliability on his foot speed and quickness starts to have some problems.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Team is going to have quite a bit of turnover next season.

Hronek
Lindholm
Zadorov
Cole
Bleuger
Joshua
Lafferty
Myers
DeSmith

All UFA or RFA.

Probably keep like half of those players.

I’d say DeSmith and Lafferty are easy passes. Cole as well if Tanev is an option. Myers is totally dependent on his ask ($2-3 mill otherwise he can leave). The team can afford everyone else except would likely need to choose between Lindholm/Hronek.

 

[MarkMM]

I'm not on the trade Hronek train as the duo has had a major impact on being able to tilt the ice and change how we can attack teams but the 7 or 8yr deal would be an absolute non starter for me.

Cant for the life of me see how Seattle can sign a better but similar player in Dunn to 4yrs and then we cannot do the same. Hronek is not the kind of player that we should be worried about giving a legacy contract to and in fact while i use the Dunn comp it's also important to outline how much more effective Dunn is at goal scoring and in his execution. Given role production and ice time these are very critical differences when evaluating worth

The one thing that has surprised me about Hronek was Red Wing fans weren't that complimentary of his skating while i think his mobility and engagement are his best features and have been disappointed in his offensive execution. His shot while hard and done with a good release is just terribly inaccurate as are a lot of his set up plays. His off puck play has also been a little better than i thought. Helps obviously having the puck so much vs trying to get it

At 27 we shouldn't be paying for potential. It seems his agent is playing the RD potential and points card while we all have seen a drop off in play a lacking offensive game and a player that has mooched much of this next level (potential) success off of Hughes.

The smart play is to give him 4yrs at market which will bridge to Willanders 2nd contract and him to 31 when it's likely a player with his profile and reliability on his foot speed and quickness starts to have some problems.

4 year deal would be my ideal at this point.

 

[lawrence]

we shouldn't trade him unless his asking price is too unreasonable than we can trade him. If he's off by 500'000 grand, cmon guys lets just do it. Christian Ehrhoff we were only off by 500 000 and Mike Gillis couldn't give 500 000 and after that our defence wasn't really the same. I'm not a fan of trading away 26 year old RHD who averages around 49 points season in the past 4 years. You can say he's riding on Quinn, quinn is also benefitting from having a talented dman as good as Hronek.

Here's the plan

We keep Hronek, we also add to our top 4 another offensive dman.
We have Hronek with Hughes, and also the flexibility of Hronek on alternating lines, if teams want to try to over power the Hughes Hronek line. Lets face it, one is 5'10 and the other is 6'0, so we know they are not big dmans, and othe teams will try to deploy heavy hitters on them. If that comes, we have Hronek on an alternating line so he doesn't have to take the blunt of hughes getting abused by other teams fore checkers.

this is the same thing as Bieksa leading up to his break out season. He was an absolute liablity in 09 and 10 and managed to get better the following year.

I never thought Hronek’s camps demands were reasonable,

I understand his agent wants more negotiating room with the 8 million starting offer. Maybe thats the case, I hope thats the case, if he really thinks his client is worth 8 million I think Hronek needs to hire a different agent.

 

[MarkMM]

we shouldn't trade him unless his asking price is too unreasonable than we can trade him. If he's off by 500'000 grand, cmon guys lets just do it. Christian Ehrhoff we were only off by 500 000 and Mike Gillis couldn't give 500 000 and after that our defence wasn't really the same. I'm not a fan of trading away 26 year old RHD who averages around 49 points season in the past 4 years. You can say he's riding on Quinn, quinn is also benefitting from having a talented dman as good as Hronek.

Here's the plan

We keep Hronek, we also add to our top 4 another offensive dman.
We have Hronek with Hughes, and also the flexibility of Hronek on alternating lines, if teams want to try to over power the Hughes Hronek line. Lets face it, one is 5'10 and the other is 6'0, so we know they are not big dmans, and othe teams will try to deploy heavy hitters on them. If that comes, we have Hronek on an alternating line so he doesn't have to take the blunt of hughes getting abused by other teams fore checkers.

this is the same thing as Bieksa leading up to his break out season. He was an absolute liablity in 09 and 10 and managed to get better the following year.



I understand his agent wants more negotiating room with the 8 million starting offer. Maybe thats the case, I hope thats the case, if he really thinks his client is worth 8 million I think Hronek needs to hire a different agent.

For me it comes down to where that $500k difference is starting from; if we think $7M is fair but he'd do it at $7.5M, okay, bite the bullet.

But if we're at $7.5M and he's holding out for $8M, ugh, I don't know, that's tough.

Now if we'd go as high as $8M (not sure I would) and he's pressing for $8.5M, don't think I could do that, I'd start looking for a shorter term deal to get that number down or be looking for a trade.

 

[Jerry the great]

Team is going to have quite a bit of turnover next season.

Hronek
Lindholm *$$$ and term dependent
Zadorov
Cole
Bleuger
Joshua
Lafferty
Myers
DeSmith

All UFA or RFA.

Probably keep like half of those players.

I would prioritize the bold

Myers at half his current cap hit is something i'd probably do

Hronek is a tough one. such a great start, but faded down the stretch. concern over durability is valid with this player. would really like to try and fill his role in free agency or via trade and then move him along unless he's willing to sign a reasonable contract ($6.5MM+/- 4/5 years).

Vancouver is probably a desirable free agent destination for guys that want a chance to win.