Kings Article: Figuring Forbort Out

[HookKing]

Er, from the linked article...

Catching Marleau from deep in the ozone:



Several more in there as well. Maybe you should check it out because Sheng did some legwork that shows examples to support his explanations of Forbort's strengths.

His speed, agility, and footwork are fantastic.

Where are the links of the players skating around him with ease? That aren't Connor McDavid?

Even McDavid didn't really get around him, Forbort still deflected it with his stick and it was just a backhand from a bad angle that deflected off Quick.

 

[Sheng Peng]

Lots of stuff here to support Forbort's ability, but comparing him to late-years Scuderi and Regehr isn't the most flattering thing. And I don't feel Regehr is a good comparison at all.

Regehr was better than Forbort is right now when he was far younger, he played in the NHL as a 19 year old and was extremely solid by 22. And I completely disagree that he's going to be better offensively than Regehr. Forbort has been playing with one of the best defensemen in the league, getting great minutes, and has 3 assists in his last 35 games. The hot start he had was an anomaly. His tops for points in the AHL is 17 - just where he's at now. Regehr put up better numbers without the benefit Forbort has had, and I think many forget what a force Regehr was when he was Forbort's age. Scuderi is absolutely a great comparison, SAH guy with very limited offense...

One thing he is not, is the best of Scuderi and Regehr with mobility, unless you are talking about the mid-30's versions which were shadows of their former selves.

I failed to clarify a few points in my article, thanks for pointing these shortcomings out.

I was comparing Forbort to the Scuderi and Regehr that Kings fans know. I didn't make that clear. Regehr was a Canadian Olympian and that's not Forbort's ceiling.

However, I was not comparing Forbort to LA Regehr/Scuderi as an insult. Either of those veterans with Forbort's mobility would've been fantastic, as their skating shortcomings were probably their greatest weakness. The shared skills that I pointed out were still assets to Regehr and Scuderi's games in Los Angeles.

As for Forbort's offense, I wasn't counting points, but he has more upside than LA Regehr/Scuderi...which isn't saying much, I know. Like I said, Forbs will probably never make a power play. But I also think he has a sneaky capability here; he's not a black hole.

And you're right that the minutes Forbort has been eating this year says something about LA's defensive depth -- not necessarily a good thing. But he's also a 25-year-old defender with room to grow. If he continues to get reasonably better, he can absolutely be a top-four guy for an excellent team.

The point of the article is that there's a lot to be excited about re: Forbort's potential. He's not a set-it-and-forget-it top-four guy yet by any stretch, but he can get there soon.

Also, you and others mentioned Mitchell. I think of Mitchell with less offense as being close to Forbort's absolute ceiling.

Forbort. He struggled quite a bit against the Oilers. His skating is average.

Also something else I should've clarified. Forbort skates very well for his size, which isn't a backhanded compliment. He's not Erik Karlsson, but who is?

Anyway, I'm not sure if skating well for his size makes him just an average skater. But you can do a lot with a 6'4" guy with his reach and let's say above-average overall skating ability, which I think he has.

 

[Sheng Peng]

Also, since it's been brought up a few times...indeed, Forbort is closer to Scuderi stylistically than Regehr. But I also used Regehr in this article because their roles as Doughty's stay-at-home, PK-featuring Corsi drag is spot on. And I think a lot of what LA liked about these three defenders is consistent.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't know if that's a great example, given the fact that the pass to Marleau was in his skates. Forbort's skating doesn't wow me. It's adequate for a player of his size. It's nothing remarkable.

 

[bob77]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that today's D will never have the freedom to make aggressive defensiveness plays of the past, where a stick was always parallel to the ice slowing players down to hit them, a loose hand was never called holding, interference for impeding progress was just considered a good defensive play, cross checking a guy to death was considered a great way to clear guys out of the front of the net, you could practically grab the others guys stick in tight quarters out front, and you could defend and move a guy from behind by taking your stick between the players legs and seeing how fast they'd move with the jewels being lifted into the air. The point is that the NHL is practically the No Hitting League these days compared to before, and to be a good player you need a more balanced skill set and way of defending players without having a dozen penalties called on you, as all of the above examples are now taken as in today's game. Forbort, with his very few minor penalties for a D in today's game, fits this new mold of the type of player you need.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't know if that's a great example, given the fact that the pass to Marleau was in his skates. Forbort's skating doesn't wow me. It's adequate for a player of his size. It's nothing remarkable.

Still waiting for your many examples of his bad skating.

 

[Whiskeypete]

Forbort imo made very good strides this year. years ago i said it will take him longer than other D prospects, his size, skating and physical development would be slower. larger and lankier D men usually take longer to grow into their own bodies and sort everything out.

as someone mentioned Scuds took a while to develop. years ago i compared his development to Chara, merely due to the size comparisons and putting it all together. (btw i didn't say he was the next Chara), only that guys with this physical build many times take longer to put all the mechanics together.

he looks slow skating, against the Oilers. who doesn't? i saw AMart get burned a few times by McDavid, i saw Muzzin get caught a few times and i even saw McJesus burn Dewey once when he totally underestimated his speed.

personally i think Derek had a better all around season than Muzzin and McNabb, only Dewey and AMart were more consistent all season. McNabb can't stay in the line up, so what's that say when comparing Derek or Gravel. Muzzin seemed to be stuck in a perpetual brain fart since he came back from the Team Canada camp.

i think his development will continue and over the next two years we will see him play more physically. that usually will come with experience and the game slows down for them. dude is solid and has good upside. i think we have seen McNabb's peak which isn't good. i pray Muzz can return to his 15-16 form because he was solid last season.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Forbort imo made very good strides this year. years ago i said it will take him longer than other D prospects, his size, skating and physical development would be slower. larger and lankier D men usually take longer to grow into their own bodies and sort everything out.

as someone mentioned Scuds took a while to develop. years ago i compared his development to Chara, merely due to the size comparisons and putting it all together. (btw i didn't say he was the next Chara), only that guys with this physical build many times take longer to put all the mechanics together.

he looks slow skating, against the Oilers. who doesn't? i saw AMart get burned a few times by McDavid, i saw Muzzin get caught a few times and i even saw McJesus burn Dewey once when he totally underestimated his speed.

personally i think Derek had a better all around season than Muzzin and McNabb, only Dewey and AMart were more consistent all season. McNabb can't stay in the line up, so what's that say when comparing Derek or Gravel. Muzzin seemed to be stuck in a perpetual brain fart since he came back from the Team Canada camp.

i think his development will continue and over the next two years we will see him play more physically. that usually will come with experience and the game slows down for them. dude is solid and has good upside. i think we have seen McNabb's peak which isn't good. i pray Muzz can return to his 15-16 form because he was solid last season.

Martinez was more consistent at what? Sucking? He was at least a -17 5 on 5 this season. His - only isn't as bad as Muzzin's because he was on the ice for a few OT GWG.

Forbort for sure was the Kings 2nd best d-man but IF Martinez and Muzzin get their heads out of their behinds then Forbort easily slides down to #4. I think he's a #4 at best anyways to be honest. I don't see him being able to anchor his own pair.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Martinez was more consistent at what? Sucking? He was at least a -17 5 on 5 this season. His - only isn't as bad as Muzzin's because he was on the ice for a few OT GWG.

Forbort for sure was the Kings 2nd best d-man but IF Martinez and Muzzin get their heads out of their behinds then Forbort easily slides down to #4. I think he's a #4 at best anyways to be honest. I don't see him being able to anchor his own pair.

Away from each other, both were fine--Martinez one of the better d-men on the roster.

Together, their CF% actually WENT DOWN, and their GF% was an absolutely abysmal 37.7%.

Apart, AMart was better, with a 51.4 GF%. Muzzin, 48.8%. Both CF% went up. Muzzin did have harder deployment, though.

Not really a sample size thing either since all times are roughly equal. They were simply each other's kryptonite, and Muzzin had a bad year anyway you slice it, while Martinez, away from Muzzin anyway, was good.

I think the one thing Forbort is really lacking that would keep him from anchoring his own pairing is the same thing as Muzzin--the inability to be dynamic enough to skate the puck oneself if things get hairy. That's an important tool for a #1 or a #3 (or you at least have to supplement them with someone that can). Maybe he develops it, but I'm not sure he's explosive enough. He did look more confident carrying the puck later on.

But yeah, like I said elsewhere, the biggest problem isn't personnel, it's that seemingly no one but Doughty can play effectively with anyone else!

 

[BigKing]

Since most--or many--had written Forbort off as a bust, the fact that he is an NHL player and had the season he did is leading some to overrate him, in my opinion.

Scuderi type value is his upside...a guy that can play with Doughty but that doesn't mean he is actually a #2 defenseman. Not saying that is a bad thing, just that I don't expect him to score a bunch or to even get that much more physical.

He will get smarter at the NHL level and should be a solid presence. The season he just had is good for a guy getting his first season under his belt, but it wasn't as amazing as it is sometimes made out to be on this board. Just the fact that he looked much better than last season and actually isn't a total bust is good enough for me.

The rookies on this team made a lot of mistakes but we tend to not harp on them as much as when Muzzin or whoever makes them. More is expected of the veterans so that is understandable, but I think we have been very easy on the rookies since the vets were such ****. If they were a contender, called LaDue up and he proceeded to make all those bad pinches, he'd be getting raked over the coals as opposed to all of us talking about his mobility.

 

[damacles1156]

I think Gravel/Kempe/LaDue were all lackluster and average.

But they are young and not blue chippers.

The knock on Kempe has always been his consistency, it showed.

Gravel is extremely weak on the boards and the puck.

LaDue is a wild card on the ice, from OMG awesome to WTF man.

Forbort was steady.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think LaDue had the puck poise of Voynov if not better, it's the defensive zone where he's trying to figure it out...yet, I wonder how he'd look if he had Willie Mitchell as a safety blanket instead of a rotating cast of players having tough gos. Oddly enough it was the mostly 'easy' coverages in front he lost, he was remarkably strong on the boards and in pursuit.

But agree that Forbort was the most steady and consistent, and actually started showing some flash later in the season.