Fenway Sports Group, LeBron James teaming up for NBA expansion team in Las Vegas UPD Leiweke/OVG proposes another casino/arena location

[PCSPounder]

I guess the question comes down to can Vegas support that many full-size arenas? Between T-Mobile, Thomas & Mack, this place, and (depending on how you define full-size) MGM Grand Garden Arena, that's 4.

Honestly, I'm kinda surprised MGM Grand is still in use. It's never seen a major renovation (not even upgrading the ad boards near the ceiling to LED ribbon boards) and been largely displaced by T-Mobile in terms of the place where MGM Resorts schedules their main bookings.

Grand Garden is easily repurposed.

It’s Vegas. Everything is easily modified or repurposed (T-Mobile maybe a little less so). They do entertainment. Casino bigwigs will probably tell you there’s not enough arenas.

 

[KevFu]

I guess the question comes down to can Vegas support that many full-size arenas? Between T-Mobile, Thomas & Mack, this place, and (depending on how you define full-size) MGM Grand Garden Arena, that's 4.

Honestly, I'm kinda surprised MGM Grand is still in use. It's never seen a major renovation (not even upgrading the ad boards near the ceiling to LED ribbon boards) and been largely displaced by T-Mobile in terms of the place where MGM Resorts schedules their main bookings.

Orleans Arena, where the Wranglers used to play, is right there, too. It's definitely smaller and far more out of date, but it exists.

Look at Vegas in March... The Pac-12, the West Coast Conference, Mountain West and Western Athletic Conference all have their conference championships in Vegas in an eight-day span. And the Big West moved theirs to Henderson last year (for some crazy reason).

It's Las Vegas. Yes it's the size of Kansas City, but Vegas isn't Kansas City.

 

[LadyStanley]

Heavy-hitters moving forward with plans for privately financed arena south of Strip

When Randy Morton looks over an empty lot south of the Strip, he sees more than water-starved bushes, dirt and rocks. The longtime Las Vegas casino executive envisions the NBA’s newest arena packed with fans.

m.lasvegassun.com

OVG arena/resort to be privately funded

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Orleans Arena, where the Wranglers used to play, is right there, too. It's definitely smaller and far more out of date, but it exists.

Look at Vegas in March... The Pac-12, the West Coast Conference, Mountain West and Western Athletic Conference all have their conference championships in Vegas in an eight-day span. And the Big West moved theirs to Henderson last year (for some crazy reason).

It's Las Vegas. Yes it's the size of Kansas City, but Vegas isn't Kansas City.

There's 40+ million visitors to Las Vegas every year and they're all looking for entertainment.

To put it another way, there are 150,000 hotel rooms in Las Vegas and they almost never drop below 80% occupied

 

[LadyStanley]

At least another 10k hotel rooms in resorts under construction, not including OVG resort.

 

[Voight]

There's 40+ million visitors to Las Vegas every year and they're all looking for entertainment.

To put it another way, there are 150,000 hotel rooms in Las Vegas and they almost never drop below 80% occupied

& you will get even more people to come for Sports. Since flights & rooms are usually cheap, going there for a game wouldn't be terribly expensive.

 

[JianYang]

Yeah the ownership group is the issue. Apparently the mayor of Vancouver is working on getting NBA and MLB. Same in Montreal there are groups for MLB and NBA. Canada could support two teams in both leagues to be honest. Montreal and Vancouver are larger than many US markets including Las Vegas which is about to be over extended as a sports market if they get a MLB team.

I've never heard of Vancouver going after a MLB team. Nba sounds more plausible, but like you said, ownership is an issue.

The family that owns the Canucks has talked about this in the past, and they deem it to be too expensive to get an expansion team.

Then, there's the people with deeper pockets in bc that just don't seem to be inerested in professional sports at all.

Either way, I'd be shocked if the next move, whenever that is, does not have a team coming back to Seattle whether it relocation or expansion.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I've never heard of Vancouver going after a MLB team. Nba sounds more plausible, but like you said, ownership is an issue.

The family that owns the Canucks has talked about this in the past, and they deem it to be too expensive to get an expansion team.

Then, there's the people with deeper pockets in bc that just don't seem to be inerested in professional sports at all.

Either way, I'd be shocked if the next move, whenever that is, does not have a team coming back to Seattle whether it relocation or expansion.

Orca Bay, now known as Canucks Sports and Entertainment, actually founded the NBA Grizzlies in 1995, alongside the Canucks, it was sold to Heisley, who transferred it to Memphis in 2001

 

[JianYang]

Orca Bay, now known as Canucks Sports and Entertainment, actually founded the NBA Grizzlies in 1995, alongside the Canucks, it was sold to Heisley, who transferred it to Memphis in 2001

Yep. It was a disaster with inept management, and players looking to Vancouver as some sort of Siberian outpost.

It would still be a tough sell in terms of player recruitment today , but not nearly as difficult as the 90s. I think players are more internationally diverse, and a little bit more accepting these days.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Yep. It was a disaster with inept management, and players looking to Vancouver as some sort of Siberian outpost.

It would still be a tough sell in terms of player recruitment today , but not nearly as difficult as the 90s. I think players are more internationally diverse, and a little bit more accepting these days.

I doubt Vancouver will return to pro basketball even if CSE isn't involved now with CSE holding the majority of the tenants at both Rogers Arena and Pacific Coliseum (where the AHL Canucks are)

 

[JianYang]

I doubt Vancouver will return to pro basketball even if CSE isn't involved now with CSE holding the majority of the tenants at both Rogers Arena and Pacific Coliseum (where the AHL Canucks are)

Isn't the AHL team in Abbotsford? Why would they be playing at pne?

At any rate, getting a team back for basketball will be very tough, I agree.

 

[OG6ix]

I've never heard of Vancouver going after a MLB team. Nba sounds more plausible, but like you said, ownership is an issue.

The family that owns the Canucks has talked about this in the past, and they deem it to be too expensive to get an expansion team.

Then, there's the people with deeper pockets in bc that just don't seem to be inerested in professional sports at all.

Either way, I'd be shocked if the next move, whenever that is, does not have a team coming back to Seattle whether it relocation or expansion.

Saw a report that the mayor is interested. I do think basketball works in Vancouver and as a raptors fan I'll say the stigma of playing in Canada is nowhere near what it was in the 90s. A lot of it has to do with a losing organization. Winning organizations don't have these problems as much - sure there might be a handful of players that would prefer to be drafted by bigger markets (they don't even want to go to places like, Memphis, Minnesota, Indiana, Sacremento etc not just a Canada issue) but there are far more players that get drafted who fall in love with Canada.

The Canucks ownership group doesn't have the cash to front a NBA team - unless they change their structure and become more like MLSE bringing in more partners. Funny that Joseph Tsai is a huge sports fan that is Canadian/Chinese - dont think he would move the nets but it's possible that he helps any interested owner in getting a NBA team. Larry Tannenbaum is also the head of the NBA board of governors. There is interest out of Montreal but I think if there were to be a second franchise I'd prefer it out west so I could watch double headers like back in the day.

Honestly, even if the NBA is expensive to get in - it's a great business model that is going to continue to make money hand over fists. For that reason alone Canadian billionaires, consortiums etc should be looking at this. The game is literally growing at a 3x multiplier within Canada.

 

[Voight]

Saw a report that the mayor is interested. I do think basketball works in Vancouver and as a raptors fan I'll say the stigma of playing in Canada is nowhere near what it was in the 90s. A lot of it has to do with a losing organization. Winning organizations don't have these problems as much - sure there might be a handful of players that would prefer to be drafted by bigger markets (they don't even want to go to places like, Memphis, Minnesota, Indiana, Sacremento etc not just a Canada issue) but there are far more players that get drafted who fall in love with Canada.

The Canucks ownership group doesn't have the cash to front a NBA team - unless they change their structure and become more like MLSE bringing in more partners. Funny that Joseph Tsai is a huge sports fan that is Canadian/Chinese - dont think he would move the nets but it's possible that he helps any interested owner in getting a NBA team. Larry Tannenbaum is also the head of the NBA board of governors. There is interest out of Montreal but I think if there were to be a second franchise I'd prefer it out west so I could watch double headers like back in the day.

Honestly, even if the NBA is expensive to get in - it's a great business model that is going to continue to make money hand over fists. For that reason alone Canadian billionaires, consortiums etc should be looking at this. The game is literally growing at a 3x multiplier within Canada.

Absolute 0 chance the NBA would move the Nets.

An NBA team wouldn't do well in Montreal.

Correct about the growth of basketball in Canada, its now the 2nd biggest producing nation of NBA players. A Canadian just had a major role in his team winning the championship.

 

[PCSPounder]

I recall Vancouver being an entrant when the Tampa/Arizona expansion happened.

BC Place hosted a preseason game or three between the Mariners and Blue Jays. Problem being that BC Place messed up and added a foot of length from the mound to home plate. That supposedly never sat well with Baseball.

(I have a photo or video from 2019 when BC Place grounds crew had to reset the penalty spot before Whitecaps v Timbers. Will they ever learn?)

 

[Bucky_Hoyt]

One factor that often gets missed is the GDP of these metro areas. Definitely not the only factor but does play a big role in terms of a market's strength.

Most recent GDP data I could find for metros mentioned in this thread:

LV = $122B (2020)
VAN = $153B (2021)
MTL = $182B (2018)
SEA = $426B (2021)
NYC = $1,874B (2021)

 

[OG6ix]

Absolute 0 chance the NBA would move the Nets.

An NBA team wouldn't do well in Montreal.

Correct about the growth of basketball in Canada, its now the 2nd biggest producing nation of NBA players. A Canadian just had a major role in his team winning the championship.

Do you have proof of this or is it the old "It's a Hockey town" excuse at play here? I used to here that all the time in Toronto but given time things change. I don't see any kids playing road hockey in streets or at the playground anymore. They are playing basketball.

Keep in mind that the NBA is not a gate driven league.

One factor that often gets missed is the GDP of these metro areas. Definitely not the only factor but does play a big role in terms of a market's strength.

Most recent GDP data I could find for metros mentioned in this thread:

LV = $122B (2020)
VAN = $153B (2021)
MTL = $182B (2018)
SEA = $426B (2021)
NYC = $1,874B (2021)

I can see Van's GDP going up in the next 10 years. They are becoming a Global Tech Hub.

 

[Voight]

Do you have proof of this or is it the old "It's a Hockey town" excuse at play here? I used to here that all the time in Toronto but given time things change. I don't see any kids playing road hockey in streets or at the playground anymore. They are playing basketball.

Keep in mind that the NBA is not a gate driven league.



I can see Van's GDP going up in the next 10 years. They are becoming a Global Tech Hub.

Toronto is a much more multicultural city which helped the Raptors get so popular. & while its not NYC, LA or Miami its the closest thing to them (amongst Canadian cities) for American players in terms of lifestyle, nightlife, culture etc.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Do you have proof of this or is it the old "It's a Hockey town" excuse at play here? I used to here that all the time in Toronto but given time things change. I don't see any kids playing road hockey in streets or at the playground anymore. They are playing basketball.

Keep in mind that the NBA is not a gate driven league.



I can see Van's GDP going up in the next 10 years. They are becoming a Global Tech Hub.

Montreal is obsessed with the Canadiens, tbth.... they dominate the media there making it hard to get coverage, if it doesn't benefit MTL.... It's why teams unaffiliated with the Canadiens, in the Canadian Junior Leagues sometimes get buried in the media, if they get covered at all

 

[OG6ix]

Toronto is a much more multicultural city which helped the Raptors get so popular. & while its not NYC, LA or Miami its the closest thing to them (amongst Canadian cities) for American players in terms of lifestyle, nightlife, culture etc.

32 percent of Montreal is made up of visible minorities. Whenever I go to Montreal and put on my raptors gear I get so many compliments and just comments about them. That's not the same as my Blue Jays gear (I wouldn't wear Leafs gear).

 

[OG6ix]

Montreal is obsessed with the Canadiens, tbth.... they dominate the media there making it hard to get coverage, if it doesn't benefit MTL.... It's why teams unaffiliated with the Canadiens, in the Canadian Junior Leagues sometimes get buried in the media, if they get covered at all

This is no different than Toronto when the NBA arrived back in the 90s. Difference is back then the NBA was not as big and now it's global and transcends sports. I think you guys underestimate Canada's ability to support an NBA team. Even if they got 5k people showing up to the bell centre they would break even/turn a profit because the NBA unlike the NHL is not a gate driven league anymore. Also, the local/national media in Canada faces challenges. Radio and print are all but dead with younger generations. Streaming has cordcutting - you don't need sports media hacks that only know one sport covering other sports when you can seek it out yourself.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

This is no different than Toronto when the NBA arrived back in the 90s. Difference is back then the NBA was not as big and now it's global and transcends sports. I think you guys underestimate Canada's ability to support an NBA team. Even if they got 5k people showing up to the bell centre they would break even/turn a profit because the NBA unlike the NHL is not a gate driven league anymore. Also, the local/national media in Canada faces challenges. Radio and print are all but dead with younger generations. Streaming has cordcutting - you don't need sports media hacks that only know one sport covering other sports when you can seek it out yourself.

Montreal is different than Toronto..... then add in the cultural divide (QC)

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Montreal is obsessed with the Canadiens, tbth.... they dominate the media there making it hard to get coverage, if it doesn't benefit MTL.... It's why teams unaffiliated with the Canadiens, in the Canadian Junior Leagues sometimes get buried in the media, if they get covered at all

This is bollocks. Dallas is obsessed with Cowboys. Still room for Rangers, Stars and Mavericks.

 

[Voight]

32 percent of Montreal is made up of visible minorities. Whenever I go to Montreal and put on my raptors gear I get so many compliments and just comments about them. That's not the same as my Blue Jays gear (I wouldn't wear Leafs gear).

Congrats. That doesn't mean an NBA team would work there.

This is bollocks. Dallas is obsessed with Cowboys. Still room for Rangers, Stars and Mavericks.

& the DFW metroplex has 6 million more people.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Congrats. That doesn't mean an NBA team would work there.



& the DFW metroplex has 6 million more people.

Montreal has 4 million people within its metropolitan area. No one is saying they can support NBA, NFL and MLB team. Just one more.

 

[Voight]

Montreal has 4 million people within its metropolitan area. No one is saying they can support NBA, NFL and MLB team. Just one more.

Just because they have a lot of people, it doesn't automatically mean they will support a 2nd pro team. I just don't see an NBA team working there. & i highly doubt they are even on the NBAs radar for expansion.