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ColdSteel2

Registered User
Aug 27, 2010
34,759
3,578
I’m asking everyone in this league to address the allegations that I have cheated and that you all have been talking about it on direct message. I thought we were all just having fun trying our best, but it’s not any fun if there is a cheat in the league trying to steal your money. So tell me what I did to cheat.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,543
22,250
Chicago 'Burbs
I just tell it like it is. @AmericanDream caught you multiple weeks using a bug in Yahoo's system to roster more players than the max allowed. You got called on it, then in the "spirt of sportsmanship" dropped two players when you should have dropped 4. I let it slide, and we moved on. But when you wanna come out swinging and attack me for no reason this morning, sorry, I'll come out swinging harder.

You're a cheat. You use a bug in the system to exploit an advantage over other players. It's a slimeball thing to do, and you can't f***ing deny that you knew what you were doing. You have the most roster moves in every league we play, every season. You currently have the most in both hockey and football. Coincidence? :laugh:

You can't sit here and deny the fact that you knew you were essentially cheating the system. You were adding players via waivers, KNOWING that you had players on IR that weren't going to be eligible come Monday, yet you made those moves anyways, when no one else did, or knew it could be done, knowing full well that the waiver claims still process and add the players. I could have done it this week, but I didn't. I could have done it all season long with the injuries my team has stacked up. Guess what? I didn't. Defend yourself? Have at it. You're nothing but a cheat for a measly couple hundred bucks.

You're going to sit here and deny that you knew you could add players via waiver claim while ineligible players were still on IR, by doing it prior to them being switched from Out to Questionable between Sunday and Monday? HawksFan74 stumbled upon it on accident and brought it up, and we explained it's a bug that shouldn't be used. You used it regularly, and got caught by someone using it multiple times. The evidence is IN THIS THREAD. :laugh:
 
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RayP

Tf
Jan 12, 2011
94,104
17,878
Imaging cheating in a fantasy football league with guys you’ve posted on a message board with for like a decade.

:laugh:
 
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hawksrule

Lot of brains but no polish
May 18, 2014
21,088
10,896
Imaging cheating in a fantasy football league with guys you’ve posted on a message board with for like a decade.

:laugh:

I think we're jumping the gun here. While I'm certainly not privy (and would have had no interest) in the rules to private leagues, since this dirty laundry is being aired in public, for chihawks10's allegations to be true it would have to be shown by a preponderance of the evidence that 1) league bylaws prohibit what coldsteel is being accused of, and 2) that coldsteel willfully violated said bylaws with awareness of the rule's existence.
 

RayP

Tf
Jan 12, 2011
94,104
17,878
I think we're jumping the gun here. While I'm certainly not privy (and would have had no interest) in the rules to private leagues, since this dirty laundry is being aired in public, for chihawks10's allegations to be true it would have to be shown by a preponderance of the evidence that 1) league bylaws prohibit what coldsteel is being accused of, and 2) that coldsteel willfully violated said bylaws with awareness of the rule's existence.

I mean Coldy himself didn’t exactly deny it or defend himself....
 

RayP

Tf
Jan 12, 2011
94,104
17,878
That's not evidence. Whether the rule exists in the league bylaws should be very straightforward.

Why do you even care so much? You’ve never been in any of the leagues and it’s fantasy football, not a damn legal case.
 

hawksrule

Lot of brains but no polish
May 18, 2014
21,088
10,896
Why do you even care so much? You’ve never been in any of the leagues and it’s fantasy football, not a damn legal case.

I don't care about the league at all, obviously, and I have no idea whether the allegation is true. But calling into question someone's honor is a serious thing - chihawks10 is flat out accusing him of stealing money - and it seems possible from the outside looking in that coldsteel took advantage of a strategy that wasn't prohibited, that was not enforced, and that anyone who was aware could have done the same. In that scenario, it may or may not have been in the spirit of a friendly league, but that's a long way off from publicly calling someone a thief.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,543
22,250
Chicago 'Burbs
That's not evidence. Whether the rule exists in the league bylaws should be very straightforward.

The Yahoo rules clearly state it:

  • A player can stay on the IL, IR, or NA for the entire season, even if they return to real-life action.
  • Players in IL, IR, IR+, or NA don't earn any points, even if they're earning stats in real-life games.
  • Once activated in real-life, you can’t complete any transaction that adds a player until you activate the once ‘out’ player on your fantasy team.
So what he's doing is when a player is listed as Out on Sunday night, he has them in IR slots on his roster, and then he's putting in waiver claims while they're listed as Out and in the IR slot. That player's designation then goes back to being Questionable once the games are played for the week, and he should have to remove those players from IR, and move them back to his bench by activating them from IR, or he won't be allowed to add any players to his roster. What happens is, there's a bug where if the waiver claim was made while the player was on IR still, and designated as Out, it still processes the waiver claim, and allows the player to be added, against the rules of Yahoo's IR/roster management rules.

I tested it this week with Greg Olsen, to purposely see whether this is a cheat than can be exploited for personal gain. He was in my IR spot. I made a waiver claim on Sunday after the games were played, and he was still on IR. It allowed the waiver claim to be processed without any issues, and would have added my player once waivers opened up on Wednesday morning. Because Olsen was still listed with an "Out" designation and in my IR slot.

I then cancelled that waiver claim yesterday, after Olsen was moved back to Questionable designation. I then put in a new waiver claim, and I was denied, stating I had to remove Olsen from IR as he was no longer eligible. I had to remove Olsen from IR, drop a player to do so(which I did drop the New York Jets defense) as can be seen in our league transaction log, then create the waiver claim, which wasn't able to process prior, because I was over the max roster size limit. Only once I dropped a player, and moved Olsen off IR, was I able to put in a claim.

So, essentially, if you put all your waiver claims in on Sunday night while players are still designated as "Out" and in your IR slots, you could add as many players to your roster as you had on IR, and go over the max roster size, thus gaining an advantage in that you have more players to choose from to start on your active roster, and you're also preventing other users from adding those players, as they can then be dropped, and have to sit on waivers for two days before they become free agents again(or you have to use your waiver spot to claim them when you shouldn't have had to).

@AmericanDream caught him doing this in two separate instances this season, and called him out on the second time, just a couple weeks ago. That conversation can be read a couple pages back in this thread. He never denied using said bug to gain an advantage. He simply said "I dropped a couple players in the spirit of sportsmanship".

This is not the way the system was intended to work. This is not the way you play fantasy sports, by exploiting a bug to gain an advantage over the other players. Particularly when real money is involved.

I'm not calling him a thief. I'm saying he's cheating the system to gain a competitive advantage over everyone else in the league. There is still a lot of luck and chance in fantasy sports, so it's not going to guarantee him wins, but it definitely gives him an advantage over other people who are either A. Playing by the rules, or B. Unaware of the existence of the bug. I also announced that this was a bug in this very thread last week, and requested people not use it. It's 100% not in the spirit of a friendly league, involving a bunch of people who have known and talked to each other for over a decade.
 
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RayP

Tf
Jan 12, 2011
94,104
17,878
I don't care about the league at all, obviously, and I have no idea whether the allegation is true. But calling into question someone's honor is a serious thing - chihawks10 is flat out accusing him of stealing money - and it seems possible from the outside looking in that coldsteel took advantage of a strategy that wasn't prohibited, that was not enforced, and that anyone who was aware could have done the same. In that scenario, it may or may not have been in the spirit of a friendly league, but that's a long way off from publicly calling someone a thief.

you read the situation wrong. I don’t believe he was calling him a thief, but a rather a cheat.
 

RayP

Tf
Jan 12, 2011
94,104
17,878
Same difference.

Not really. I was in a league where the commish just took the money and ran. That dude is a straight up thief.

Coldy has been cheating with money on the line for an advantage in front of all of our faces for months.
 
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ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,543
22,250
Chicago 'Burbs
Same difference.

Not really. I'm not saying he stole money. I'm saying he cheated by exploiting a bug to gain an advantage. The advantage doesn't guarantee him winning the money, but it sure as shit helps his cause.

If I had 4 guys in IR slots, I could essentially add an extra 4 guys to my roster every single week, thus preventing other players from getting those players, or having a wider selection of players to choose to start.
 

chicagoskycam

Land of #1 Overall Picks
Nov 19, 2009
25,582
1,834
Fulton Market, Chicago
chicagoskycam.com
Whoa, this is a little much.

Here are my 2 cents on the IR rule. If Yahoo lets you place the transaction because the guy is currently O, you have no way of knowing if he will be classified differently when the transaction actually goes through via waivers. Self-policing in any fantasy league is a slippery slope and I prefer you have none of it. If people don't like it then get rid of IR slots, it's pretty simple or allow it to happen as the system allows. That way everyone is playing by the same rules.

Take Matthew Stafford, O when I put him on IR on Monday. Put waivers claim in, then he was Q on Tuesday when everyone knows he's out for the season. On Wed he was out again when the transaction went through. If he was Q I would have been in violation but should not have been.

Get rid of self-policing and let the system does what it can or get rid of IR
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,543
22,250
Chicago 'Burbs
Whoa, this is a little much.

Here is my 2 cents on the IR rule. If Yahoo lets you place the transaction because the guy is currently O, you have no way of knowing if he will be classified differently when the transaction actually goes through via waivers. Self-policing in any fantasy league is a slippery slope and I prefer you have none of it. If people don't like it then get rid of IR slots, it's pretty simple or allow it to happen as the system allows.

Yes you do. Guys on IR are listed with an IR designation. Guys with an "Out" designation, that are dealing with minor injuries, or week-to-week injuries, are automatically made questionable at the conclusion of each week's games, every single week, at the same time. Every time. Every player. Anyone not with an IR designation gets bumped back to Questionable. Pleading ignorance doesn't absolve guilt.
 

chicagoskycam

Land of #1 Overall Picks
Nov 19, 2009
25,582
1,834
Fulton Market, Chicago
chicagoskycam.com
Yes you do. Guys on IR are listed with an IR designation. Guys with an "Out" designation, that are dealing with minor injuries, or week-to-week injuries, are automatically made questionable at the conclusion of each week's games, every single week, at the same time. Every time. Every player. Anyone not with an IR designation gets bumped back to Questionable. Pleading ignorance doesn't absolve guilt.

You're asking the NFL injury system to remedy it. Like no way Stafford should have been Q for last Tuesday, I never thought it would be an issue. Anyways my point is moving forward I suggest you let people do whatever they system allows so we all play by the same rules or just not have IR on Yahoo.

I really don't think what Coldsteel did was that bad, it's not like this stuff was explained beforehand. I didn't even know we had IR slots till a few weeks in.

I mean if a guy is really on the NFL IR he's not coming back at all, right? So why even have it?
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,543
22,250
Chicago 'Burbs
You're asking the NFL injury system to remedy it. Like no way Stafford should have been Q for last Tuesday, I never thought it would be an issue. Anyways my point is moving forward I suggest you let people do whatever they system allows so we all play by the same rules or just not have IR on Yahoo.

I really don't think what Coldsteel did was that bad, it's not like this stuff was explained beforehand. I didn't even know we had IR slots till a few weeks in.

For one, whether it's bad or not, cheating the system is still cheating the system. I robbed a person for $10. I robbed a bank for $100,000. I still committed robbery...(not saying that's what this is).

For two, it's your responsibility to know the league rules, league scoring, roster positions, etc. I shouldn't have to explain it to people.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,543
22,250
Chicago 'Burbs
After rereading your last post I'm even more confused. So we were not supposed to place anyone on IR that was O, unless they were on the NFL IR.

No. I'm saying you know that your guys that are listed as O are going to be moved back to a questionable tag for the week, every single week. That's the way it works. Unless they're actually designated on the actual NFL IR. Every single injured player listed as Out, gets moved back to Questionable after the conclusion of the week's games, unless they're actually designated on the actual NFL IR. So you can't plead ignorance that you didn't know what their designation was going to be. Because they all get bumped back to questionable every single week, whether it's a one week injury, one month injury, or week-to-week injury. They all go back to questionable.
 

chicagoskycam

Land of #1 Overall Picks
Nov 19, 2009
25,582
1,834
Fulton Market, Chicago
chicagoskycam.com
For one, whether it's bad or not, cheating the system is still cheating the system. I robbed a person for $10. I robbed a bank for $100,000. I still committed robbery...(not saying that's what this is).

For two, it's your responsibility to know the league rules, league scoring, roster positions, etc. I shouldn't have to explain it to people.

Honestly, it's confusing and I'm in three different FF leagues with various rules. None of the others has self-policing of IR slots, of course we don't use Yahoo. Making a mistake does not equate to deliberate theft or cheating man, c'mon.

It really falls on the commish to remedy stuff like this when it happens. As a commish in other leagues, I wouldn't put this type of monitoring on you.
 
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