Player Discussion Fabian Zetterlund traded to Ottawa

[Bileur]

Fabian Muckalund

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

A lot of folks had it out for Amadio early in the season. Then they saw what happened once he jived with Pinto. Then he got injured and people were saying we need him back. I am going to be uber patient with Zetterlund.

He also had 3 assists in 22 games when going to new team in SJ before becoming one of their best scorers next 2 years.

I aint worried one bit with Zetter, he provides much more than just scoring too. Great 2 way, physical, great puck possession etc.

 

[Tuna99]

It's interesting how you instantly talk about what Amadio did before coming to Ottawa but with Zetterlund limit it to just his time here, different rules for different players it seems...

Yeah, I knew who Zetterlund was and his game before he came here, I liked him going back to his time in NJ, maybe the fact that you're questioning if I knew his game prior to coming is just you telling on yourself? It doesn't seem like you even have a great read on how he's been playing here tbh.

Okay you go with your “I have a eeep file on this kid and everyone is wrong about him he’s a top 6’ and I’ll go with what my eyes tell me.

I don’t dislike the player but you guys are caring like he’s a top 6 when he’s never played too 6 hockey on a winning team.

I’m Surprised afyer 7 years of seeing Sens hockey and players who might look good on a bad team and can’t play hockey on winning teams (Duclair, Joseph, Kuba, Hoffman, etc) but somehow Zetterlund who is exactly a guy who’s with it one game and not the next - somehow we are wrong and you are right because you pretend watch NJ games.

 

[Tuna99]

Watching the game today and deciding that Zetterlund is the issue between him and Stutzle is an interesting perspective.

Did you watch the Florida game too? Zetterlund looked lost. That was 1 game ago playing with our best player.

He’s a decent player, he just not a top 6 on thai team. Maybe on a bad SJ team, but here he looks like when the playoffs start he’ll be on the 4th line

 

[Micklebot]

... somehow we are wrong and you are right because you pretend watch NJ games.

You're projecting. It's ok if you never knew him before his time in Ottawa but the only pretending going on is you acting like he never played a game before coming here.

 

[bert]

Did you watch the Florida game too? Zetterlund looked lost. That was 1 game ago playing with our best player.

He’s a decent player, he just not a top 6 on thai team. Maybe on a bad SJ team, but here he looks like when the playoffs start he’ll be on the 4th line

I watched it thanks. I have seen you slowly develop an irrational hatred throughout this thread and chose not to engage in anymore debate with you in regards to the player because of that.

But because I have responded this is what I've seen.

His vision has been better than I expected and he gets open, he has been snake bitten. He is also hard on pucks and is always moving his feet. It's not a matter of if it's when. Really good defensively on his d.man. Always goes inside out taking away the shooting lane. As I've said a few times he needs more time before going hyperbolic like the post I have quoted. The signs are clearly there he has the tools to be a good and productive player, that fits the mold of this teams identity.

 

[Schmautz11]

Did you watch the Florida game too? Zetterlund looked lost. That was 1 game ago playing with our best player.

He’s a decent player, he just not a top 6 on thai team. Maybe on a bad SJ team, but here he looks like when the playoffs start he’ll be on the 4th line

I agree he looked lost on Saturday. Like a lot of guys. Thought it was his worst game since he got here. But he was pretty good yesterday against the BJ's. Too bad our best player put passes in his feet / forgot he shot right or he might have had a couple more grade A chances.

If the Sens are healthy going into the dance, he will most likely be fourth line. But if someone gets injured, he would be the first guy to move up and not be a liability.

I've got the glass half full, optimistic look at him. Seems like others don't. Time will tell.

 

[Micklebot]

I watched it thanks. I have seen you slowly develop an irrational hatred throughout this thread and chose not to engage in anymore debate with you in regards to the player because of that.

But because I have responded this is what I've seen.

His vision has been better than I expected and he gets open, he has been snake bitten. He is also hard on pucks and is always moving his feet. It's not a matter of if it's when. Really good defensively on his d.man. Always goes inside out taking away the shooting lane. As I've said a few times he needs more time before going hyperbolic like the post I have quoted. The signs are clearly there he has the tools to be a good and productive player, that fits the mold of this teams identity.

This is pretty much how I see him too, I'm not sure if he projects more middle six than top 6 but he's pretty clearly a solid top 9 option from what can tell. I don't see him as a line driver, but he should have no issues complimenting good players.

He's not cheating for offense either, which is good given he came from a bad/young team where those types of habits can creep in, and he's starting to look more comfortable with our systems.

His underlying numbers have actually improved here compared to SJ with shots/60 staying about the same but iSCF/60, iHDCF/60, ixG/60 and rebounds created/60 all up significantly which all matches the eye test, he's getting the chances, it's just a matter of time.

If he does end up on the 4th line, that speaks far more to our depth than his play, Amadio found chemistry on that third line that's hard to break up (why would you want to give how they are going) and Perron has been really strong down the stretch.

 

[lancepitlick]

I thought he's played well lately, albeit with some lapses here and there. His speed/strength is obvious and he's done some great work back checking. You've also seen Green talking to him on the bench, so I think he's still getting up to speed with how Ottawa plays.

Worst case he's a 3rd line guy that won't hurt the team if on a top line. Goals will come. It isn't like Stutzle has been lighting up the score sheet, he has the same number of points as Zetterlund in the last 6 games.

 

[Tuna99]

I thought he's played well lately, albeit with some lapses here and there. His speed/strength is obvious and he's done some great work back checking. You've also seen Green talking to him on the bench, so I think he's still getting up to speed with how Ottawa plays.

Worst case he's a 3rd line guy that won't hurt the team if on a top line. Goals will come. It isn't like Stutzle has been lighting up the score sheet, he has the same number of points as Zetterlund in the last 6 games.

Stutzle looks super frustrated since Zetterlund has been on his line / obvious lack of offense from both players isn’t great but we know with Timmy it’ll come when he is back with Brady. It’s just obvious Zetterlund and Timmy don’t have a natural chemistry and both are frustrated because of it.

 

[Tuna99]

I watched it thanks. I have seen you slowly develop an irrational hatred throughout this thread and chose not to engage in anymore debate with you in regards to the player because of that.

But because I have responded this is what I've seen.

His vision has been better than I expected and he gets open, he has been snake bitten. He is also hard on pucks and is always moving his feet. It's not a matter of if it's when. Really good defensively on his d.man. Always goes inside out taking away the shooting lane. As I've said a few times he needs more time before going hyperbolic like the post I have quoted. The signs are clearly there he has the tools to be a good and productive player, that fits the mold of this teams identity.

My guess is he’s a scratch or on the 4th line for game 1 of the playoffs.

Don’t need him on the PP, don’t need him in the top 6, he’s an energy player right now

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The big difference is that Sanford was a project and very unproven whereas Zetterlund has a 24 goal season under his belt and was on pace for another one this year before this drought.

Sanford showed no flashes. Had no motor and never scored 20 ever in the league I don't think they are really comparable. Zetterlund could have quite a few more points if stutzle started shooting the puck. Maybe some rebound goals....

I realize the players were not comparable I was making a point about the stay patient advice

 

[bert]

My guess is he’s a scratch or on the 4th line for game 1 of the playoffs.

Don’t need him on the PP, don’t need him in the top 6, he’s an energy player right now

Absolutely 0 percent chance that happens.

4th line maybe but that doesnt mean he is terrible. He came into a team late that has two lines absolutely rolling.

He is also great insurance for injuries which are inevitable.

 

[Tuna99]

Absolutely 0 percent chance that happens.

4th line maybe but that doesnt mean he is terrible. He came into a team late that has two lines absolutely rolling.

He is also great insurance for injuries which are inevitable.

Yep, I’ve been saying the exact same thing all along. I don’t think he’s a top 6 player (yet) on a winning team, he’s a project and that’s a compliment to Ottawa they brought in 2 deadline players they think can improve with the coaching and culture of the team, bought low with the idea they’ll be e better players under Green and Tkachuk

 

[NyQuil]

Absolutely 0 percent chance that happens.

4th line maybe but that doesnt mean he is terrible. He came into a team late that has two lines absolutely rolling.

He is also great insurance for injuries which are inevitable.

Ideally he can be a bit of a Dean McAmmond type who can fit in on any line if required.

He's noticeable out there which is good, and he's a decent player on the cycle, but 2 points in 15 games with extensive opportunity in the top six isn't good. Highmore and Gaudette also have 2 points in their last 15 games.

We can hope that it's a slump, or that he needs to get used to a new system and new linemates, or whatever, but objectively it's not good production.

 

[bert]

Ideally he can be a bit of a Dean McAmmond type who can fit in on any line if required.

He's noticeable out there which is good, and he's a decent player on the cycle, but 2 points in 15 games with extensive opportunity in the top six isn't good. Highmore and Gaudette also have 2 points in their last 15 games.

We can hope that it's a slump, or that he needs to get used to a new system and new linemates, or whatever, but objectively it's not good production.

I have watched alot of San Jose, as I absolutely love Celebrini and they play an exciting attacking style. Zetterlund is a good player that plays the right way. Comparing him to Highmore and Gaudette?... He is a way better player.

We have a bigger sample size than 15 games on a new team mostly on the 4th line with 10 minutes or less of ice time.

 

[NyQuil]

Zetterlund is a good player that plays the right way. Comparing him to Highmore and Gaudette?... He is a way better player.

We have a bigger sample size than 15 games on a new team mostly on the 4th line with 10 minutes or less of ice time.

All I said was that he's produced as much as Gaudette and Highmore over the same span of games.

This is a fact.

And he's played 14 minutes or more in 9 of those games.

Gaudette has played 12 minutes twice in 15 games, everything else far below. Highmore has played one game of 12 minutes, everything else below.

I'm hopeful that the production will come but I'm not going to pretend that it has.

 

[Tuna99]

All I said was that he's produced as much as Gaudette and Highmore over the same span of games.

This is a fact.

And he's played 14 minutes or more in 9 of those games.

High more PK’s so I do t see him coming out of the lineup, and Cousins will play in tje playoffs if he’s healthy so the choose on tje 4th line is

Cousins - Highmore - Zetterlund
Highmore - Gaudette - Cousins

 

[bert]

All I said was that he's produced as much as Gaudette and Highmore over the same span of games.

This is a fact.

And he's played 14 minutes or more in 9 of those games.

Gaudette has played 12 minutes twice in 15 games, everything else far below. Highmore has played one game of 12 minutes, everything else below.

In a cherry picked sample size sure it is. But watching these players its quite clear Zetterlund brings way more to the table. Gaudette struggles to keep up and Highmore is a turnover machine that cant process the game fast enough. Neither of them should be playing. Zetterlund is the obvious better player even when ignoring the last two seasons.

 

[NyQuil]

In a cherry picked sample size sure it is. But watching these players its quite clear Zetterlund brings way more to the table. Gaudette struggles to keep up and Highmore is a turnover machine that cant process the game fast enough. Neither of them should be playing. Zetterlund is the obvious better player even when ignoring the last two seasons.

There's nothing cherry picked about his entire tenure with the team that he is currently on.

If he's that much better than Gaudette and Highmore, and has more and better opportunities, better linemates, more PP time, more total icetime, then why is he producing at the same level?

I will agree that he is a better player than Gaudette and Highmore if you agree that he has produced as much as Gaudette and Highmore because he has.

 

[bert]

There's nothing cherry picked about his entire tenure with the team that he is currently on.

If he's that much better than Gaudette and Highmore, and has more and better opportunities, better linemates, more PP time, more total icetime, then why is he producing at the same level?

I will agree that he is a better player than Gaudette and Highmore if you agree that he has produced as much as Gaudette and Highmore because he has.

Its cherry picked because no one breaks down player performance singularly by 15 games. I agree he has produced as much over a 15 game stretch. I will also acknowledge he has 80 points in his last 146 games in the same league scoring 43 goals.

Gaudette and Highmore dispite being much older have 259 game combined have scored 39 points.

 

[NyQuil]

Its cherry picked because no one breaks down player performance singularly by 15 games. I agree he has produced as much over a 15 game stretch. I will also acknowledge he has 80 points in his last 146 games in the same league scoring 43 goals.

Playing in a completely different situation on a different team.

Jonathan Cheechoo scored 128 goals in his previous 293 games before arriving on the Senators but only scored 12 with Ottawa.

Gaudette and Highmore despite being much older have 259 game combined have scored 39 points.

And yet, have produced as much as Zetterlund has since he arrived with less icetime, less PP time and worse linemates.

How big does the sample have to be in your opinion before you are a little concerned? 20 games? A half-season? A whole season?

 

[bert]

Playing in a completely different situation on a different team.

Jonathan Cheechoo scored 128 goals in his previous 293 games before arriving on the Senators but only scored 12 with Ottawa.



And yet, have produced as much as Zetterlund has since he arrived with less icetime, less PP time and worse linemates.

What is so hard about admitting a basic fact? It's a fact.

How big does the sample have to be in your opinion before you are a little concerned? 20 games? A half-season? A whole season?

Cheechoo couldnt skate anymore. Zetterlund can and has proven it. Did I suggest Zetterlund is Cheechoo?...... What am I not admitting to?.... You quoted my post literally acknowledging you are basing your entire player evaluation on a players production over a 15 game sample size and not acknowledging any other variable or time period the player has played.. I have acknowledged your cherry picked 'basic stat'.

Players dont just lose it, Zetterlund has proven he can get opportunities and plays a heavy game. Stutzle has been aweful lately does he take any of the blame? Passing it on a 2 on 0 was that Zetterlunds decision? At this rate reading this thread im expecting him to get the blame.

How long did you dislike the Perron and Amadio signings? Maybe thats a good timeline for you to compare to. Or did you have 0 patience for them as well?

 

[NyQuil]

Cheechoo couldnt skate anymore. Zetterlund can and has proven it. Did I suggest Zetterlund is Cheechoo?...... What am I not admitting to?.... You quoted my post literally acknowledging you are basing your entire player evaluation on a players production over a 15 game sample size and not acknowledging any other variable or time period the player has played.. I have acknowledged your cherry picked 'basic stat'.

Players dont just lose it, Zetterlund has proven he can get opportunities and plays a heavy game. Stutzle has been awful lately does he take any of the blame? Passing it on a 2 on 0 was that Zetterlunds decision? At this rate reading this thread im expecting him to get the blame.

How long did you dislike the Perron and Amadio signings? Maybe thats a good timeline for you to compare to. Or did you have 0 patience for them as well?

Stutzle has been terrible and has 350% the production of Zetterlund over that span.

If you take Perron's worst 15 game stretch of the year, he still scored 3 points to Zetterlund's 2.

How much PP time has Amadio gotten? He's played 4 times as many games and has an identical amount of TOI with the man advantage. He has one PP point to Zetterlund's 0 PP points.

I had plenty of patience for Zetterlund while he was toiling on the 4th line. He's not playing there anymore. He's played fewer games on the 4th line than he has in the top six.

Obviously I want him to score. We need goal scorers.

 

[bert]

Stutzle has been terrible and has 350% the production of Zetterlund over that span.

If you take Perron's worst 15 game stretch of the year, he still scored 3 points to Zetterlund's 2.

How much PP time has Amadio gotten? He's played 4 times as many games and has an identical amount of TOI with the man advantage. He has one PP point to Zetterlund's 0 PP points.

I had plenty of patience for Zetterlund while he was toiling on the 4th line. He's not playing there anymore. He's played fewer games on the 4th line than he has in the top six.

Obviously I want him to score. We need goal scorers.

The last 8 games Stutzle has 2 points. He is not shooting, he is turning the puck over in danger areas.

Ok so thanks for proving my point about needing patience in regards to Perron and Zetterlund. Perron spent no time on the 4th line during those 15 games.

Amadio and Perron had slow starts production wise. But just like Zetterlund I wasnt blinded by only looking at the box score. They were doing good things and werent getting results very similar to Zetterlund. You'd think this fanbase that ripped on Staios and then ripped on Perron and Amadio would learn something. But here we are.