F Rutger McGroarty - WBS Penguins, AHL (2022, 14th, WPG; traded to PIT)

[57special]

Gauthier has flashier puck-handling. When it matters in a situation during a game where pure skill is needed, I think McGroarty can make higher skill plays.

People said the same about Turcotte and Zegras.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

People said the same about Turcotte and Zegras.

Don’t think that’s so. Maybe that Turcotte can score as much or slightly less/more with less flash. Still can, but has been developed differently than Zegras.

I think Zegras was always viewed as way more flashy and probably as high pure skill as there is in that draft. He was up there with Hughes in that category. Turcotte was skilled, but his offense came in different ways than pure puck skills.

 

[99ovr]

Reminds me alot of Colin White

Colin White is probably one of the most plain players I've ever seen. Doesn't contribute anything on the ice, has no high end skill, passive, defers to others and has no confidence. I'm not sure if Rutger fits that bill.

 

[majormajor]

Don’t think that’s so. Maybe that Turcotte can score as much or slightly less/more with less flash. Still can, but has been developed differently than Zegras.

I think Zegras was always viewed as way more flashy and probably as high pure skill as there is in that draft. He was up there with Hughes in that category. Turcotte was skilled, but his offense came in different ways than pure puck skills.

You still holding on to that?

I think most of us would drop Turcotte considerably in a re-draft.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You still holding on to that?

I think most of us would drop Turcotte considerably in a re-draft.

Turcotte has done well, but obviously not gifted the type of role that some others have been. He’s not the only one in a situation like that, but one of the main ones from his draft. No reason to drop him considerably, unless you don’t want to contextualize.

 

[ijuka]

Turcotte has done well, but obviously not gifted the type of role that some others have been. He’s not the only one in a situation like that, but one of the main ones from his draft. No reason to drop him considerably, unless you don’t want to contextualize.

Well Boldy and Zegras both had over a point per game in AHL, I'm not sure I'd call it "gifting". Turcotte on the other hand is at 0.7 points per game or so. I'd say it's more that Turcotte just has not been as good.

 

[AmericanDream]

Too early to be dropping anyone yet. Kakko and Dach have looked rough as well, but still way too early.

Turcotte hasn't been gifted the ice time as some others around him have but I really do wish he stayed one more year at Wisconsin. I don't like kids bolting after one season and didn't even hit at least a ppg in it.

Lucius is on that path right now too, though I hope he picks Portland in the WHL to play next...

Turcotte should have a tremendous chance next year at ice time, let's see what he does with it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well Boldy and Zegras both had over a point per game in AHL, I'm not sure I'd call it "gifting". Turcotte on the other hand is at 0.7 points per game or so. I'd say it's more that Turcotte just has not been as good.

I’d say it’s more that you are a stat watcher and tried to make an argument that falls flat because you don’t understand context. You did exactly what I described above and walked right into it.

What if those guys weren’t given PP time in the AHL, let alone the NHL role they were given?

 

[ijuka]

I’d say it’s more that you are a stat watcher and tried to make an argument that falls flat because you don’t understand context. You did exactly what I described above and walked right into it.

What if those guys weren’t given PP time in the AHL, let alone the NHL role they were given?

Then there probably is a reason for that. Do you think Zegras wouldn't receive PP time? He's excellent at PP, so he'll get PP time. If Turcotte's excellent at PP, why would he not get PP time? He's a high end prospect for a team that's essentially in rebuilding mode nurturing several prospects.

Turcotte's 13th on his AHL team in scoring, you can make all the context excuses you want but a top prospect should be able to do better than that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Then there probably is a reason for that. Do you think Zegras wouldn't receive PP time? He's excellent at PP, so he'll get PP time. If Turcotte's excellent at PP, why would he not get PP time? He's a high end prospect for a team that's essentially in rebuilding mode nurturing several prospects.

Turcotte's 13th on his AHL team in scoring, you can make all the context excuses you want but a top prospect should be able to do better than that.

No, you’re right. It’s completely normal that 5th OA picks are treated like grinders to pad the stats of players who have no real future with the organization. Not like the Kings are one of the teams in the league that have a colossal problem with developing forwards either.

Your arguments have also now switched to bad faith and flat out deception due to the trap you walked yourself into. I don’t think this is the place for this discussion though, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think something notable that hasn’t been mentioned yet is that McGroarty was put out there with his team defending a 5 on 3 (McGroarty, Duke, and Chesley).

Coaches often make bad situational decisions, but I don’t think that’s nothing. The team was rolling the lines pretty normally in all situations in a blowout, but changed it up for the 5 on 3. McGroarty hasn’t played center this season or last, but is trusted in a key defensive situation like that to take the face offs and be the lone forward.

The way he’s talked about by some you’d think he’s like a Kaliyev, who I think is going to be a good NHL player, but I think McGroarty’s position the past two seasons has clouded some of the views on his game.

I remember back to the YOG where he was the 1C for the USA on a team with a lot of these same players and he was getting comparisons to Tavares. He’s now played two years exclusively on the wing for a team that picked about 10 natural centers. It was always going to be someone that gets shafted position-wise. McGroarty has. Gauthier is a natural center that has played a lot of winger. Snuggerud is a natural center that has played a lot of wing. I think that was probably one of the main reasons why Fleming left. He was never used at center.

The outlook looks a little different for McGroarty if you consider him a two way power center as opposed to a one-dimensional scoring winger. He’s also been viewed as the captain of the team all year, and is wearing the C at this tournament. I’m probably a lot higher on him than most, but for me he’s the top name among the NTDP forwards for the 2022 draft.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think something notable that hasn’t been mentioned yet is that McGroarty was put out there with his team defending a 5 on 3 (McGroarty, Duke, and Chesley).

Coaches often make bad situational decisions, but I don’t think that’s nothing. The team was rolling the lines pretty normally in all situations in a blowout, but changed it up for the 5 on 3. McGroarty hasn’t played center this season or last, but is trusted in a key defensive situation like that to take the face offs and be the lone forward.

The way he’s talked about by some you’d think he’s like a Kaliyev, who I think is going to be a good NHL player, but I think McGroarty’s position the past two seasons has clouded some of the views on his game.

I remember back to the YOG where he was the 1C for the USA on a team with a lot of these same players and he was getting comparisons to Tavares. He’s now played two years exclusively on the wing for a team that picked about 10 natural centers. It was always going to be someone that gets shafted position-wise. McGroarty has. Gauthier is a natural center that has played a lot of winger. Snuggerud is a natural center that has played a lot of wing. I think that was probably one of the main reasons why Fleming left. He was never used at center.

The outlook looks a little different for McGroarty if you consider him a two way power center as opposed to a one-dimensional scoring winger. He’s also been viewed as the captain of the team all year, and is wearing the C at this tournament. I’m probably a lot higher on him than most, but for me he’s the top name among the NTDP forwards for the 2022 draft.

Not gonna lie, starting to like McGroarty a tad more than Gauthier...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Two goals in the final, and completely dominated. The Swedish goalie had the slightly better of it, but McGroarty was clearly the best skater on the ice. Missed another chance on a breakaway that he'd bury almost every time. But a big game player. Completely showed up with his best in the final. The leader of the team. Should be no surprise he's the captain of the American team.

Had 8+1=9 in 6 games, and he was playing on the third line for reasons. I hate to use the excuse of his line-mates because those guys are pretty good prospects, but Stramel really struggled to finish and Lucius doesn't shoot, so McGroarty's assist numbers are low for his contribution in this tournament. He could've easily had like an 8+6 tournament.

Thought he was the best American player this year at this tournament. Don't know if it was close either.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Teams likely love McGroarty’s fire and toughness. His skills are high-end enough at 18 years old where he’ll probably get even better over time instead of losing them. He isn’t polished and definitely benefitted from his linemates, but he’s played his best at major scouting events, and at times was the best forward on an obviously talented group.

Didn’t think he was a lock for Round 1 before the tournament, but with the Russian issue and his strong resume, he probably ends up in the 19-25 range.

 

[95snipes]

I see a cross of Bo Horvat and Jamie Benn-lite. I think NHL teams are going to be asking how much offense they will be getting, but I think he's skilled enough to be a 60 point player in the NHL. Add the competitiveness, intangibles, all around game, and I think you're looking at a top 10 pick. I'm sure there are NHL teams who agree.

 

[Mr Buckles]

A damn fine hockey name.

 

[majormajor]

I see a cross of Bo Horvat and Jamie Benn-lite. I think NHL teams are going to be asking how much offense they will be getting, but I think he's skilled enough to be a 60 point player in the NHL. Add the competitiveness, intangibles, all around game, and I think you're looking at a top 10 pick. I'm sure there are NHL teams who agree.

I like the Horvat comparison. That's the first one I've heard here that fits my image of McGroarty.

 

[William H Bonney]

I don't like his high-end upside but I think he tracks similarly to a Jamie Benn without the outlier offensive years. His skating is pretty poor and he doesn't create much offense himself, although he's adept at finding space to be set up in the offensive zone. Even with his goal scoring credentials he needs to improve the consistency of his one-timers. He flubs them a lot.

 

[57special]

Well, Jamie Benn wasn't supposed to be Jamie Benn. I like the Horvat comp, or maybe Coyle. GM's won't be able to resist his combination of size, leadership, and skill. He should be gone in the teens. Getting a Horvat in the teens is a big win.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Well, Jamie Benn wasn't supposed to be Jamie Benn. I like the Horvat comp, or maybe Coyle. GM's won't be able to resist his combination of size, leadership, and skill. He should be gone in the teens. Getting a Horvat in the teens is a big win.

Which teams are prepared to take -that skating- earlier than the 20s?

 

[57special]

Which teams are prepared to take -that skating- earlier than the 20s?

His skating is fine. Better than Lundell's was reputed to be, and we've seen how that turned out.

 

[jmelm]

He reminds me more of Draisaitl. I know that’s lofty, but the elite passing/shooting tool is that of Draisaitl.

I don't agree on the Draisaitl, but he does remind me a bit of JT Miller, which is pretty darn good praise and type of player.

 

[bigdog16]

He isn't a burner but his skating is serviceable. His total package will make up for his lack of skating at the NHL level. I like the JT Miller and Horvat comps. He battles

 

[jmelm]

Teams likely love McGroarty’s fire and toughness. His skills are high-end enough at 18 years old where he’ll probably get even better over time instead of losing them. He isn’t polished and definitely benefitted from his linemates, but he’s played his best at major scouting events, and at times was the best forward on an obviously talented group.

Didn’t think he was a lock for Round 1 before the tournament, but with the Russian issue and his strong resume, he probably ends up in the 19-25 range.

I don't think he falls to 19 after this tournament. I think he's gone in the 12-16 range.

 

[tomd]

Seems like a poor man's McTavish...